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Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Jets 3/14/13 - Tort-O-Rella

BlueshirtBlitz said:
Coming from somebody who clung to John Mitchell as the second coming of jesus christ because of advanced stats, are you just throwing the advanced stats out the window now to support your argument?

The team is in the top 10 league-wide of all the "important" advanced stats people often use.
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in b4 "OMG! Johnny Malkin has 8 goals!! :scared::scared:"

Complete, extreme overreaction by Kershaw. We do not need to blow the team up.
 
Fact of the matter is, if this wasn't a shortened season you'd all be wrong.

I can get behind ragging on the team, because it IS a short season and we're dealing with the practical issue of making the playoffs. But to spout this garbage about how the entire team is overrated is ****ing crazy.
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
Coming from somebody who clung to John Mitchell as the second coming of jesus christ because of advanced stats, are you just throwing the advanced stats out the window now to support your argument?

The team is in the top 10 league-wide of all the "important" advanced stats people often use.
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Yeah they're pretty unlucky this year too and have usually outplayed opponents this yr. Top 6 outside of Richards hasn't really been a problem for me. But I still think the defense and bottom 6 is overrated. Our 7th best scorer is Taylor Pyatt, he was 14th in TOI/PG for Coyotes forwards. Kreider/Miller looking really bad picks now. We have no depth to do well on a playoff run. Our players will be exhausted like they were last year and make boneheaded mistakes. I'd love them to prove me wrong, but as Synergy27 said, it'll hurt less to go in with low expectations. I don't think the Rangers ever win a cup with Staal as their best d-man and Richards as their top center. Good, not great players.
 
esidebill said:
I get not everyone on the bottom line is an amazing goal scoring, play making talent. At least they're role players who have a pulse. I understand you can call players useless hacks, but what do you propose the Rangers do?

Would you have them call up all their rookies and throw them into the bottom lines? Go sign another hack from free agency?
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I for one would love to have as many rookies and you g players in line up as possible . If we can't be like last year and possibly grind and will out way to the FINALS like we almost did I just assume rid ourselves of a lot I these stiffs and be sellers . What good is out in one bubble team . It's gotten us serviceable pro prospects but no real offensive or offensive Defense me( Del Z regressed again ) .
I know I'm in minority but I'd also love to sell one if Staal or G for a serious can't miss center or wing prospect and of player to a ready to win now team . They would bring a serious return and help out a team over the top . To us they are wasting away on this squad where. 3 goals against is a death sentence . Blow it up .
PYatt
ASHAM
Richards
Gaborik
MDZ
HALPERN
Powe are not winning us anything I rather lose with kids then these stiffs . In reality how much worse would we be .
 
Zenith said:
Good post.

I agree that the Rangers have gotten "softer" and that they're not going to go anywhere without Richards and Gaborik playing well.

If that happens, I think this team could make a run for the cup. It doesn't look very promising, though.

Another thing: the defense has been porous most of the season. Including McD, Girardi, and DZ - hell, those 3 have been terrible in the past few games. Coming from a McD fan boy, and one of the few people who doesn't like to pile on Del Zotto. But, the criticism is unavoidable. In the absence of Staal, I thought these players would have stepped it up, but they look worse than ever before. McDonagh is starting to play a lot better, though. He was excellent against the Caps and Jets. So, there's one positive.

I feel as though Girardi's straight up badness has been understated. He's been BAD. The mis-read he made on the GWG in the Sabres game was inexcusable. He also has a tendency to turn the puck over even if there's no forecheck pressure being put on him. He looks like a totally different player than he did last season.

Maybe it's the coaching, maybe it's the lack of conditioning, but this team is going NOWHERE with terrible offense AND terrible defense.
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Agreed, the defense was far better last year. Staal's injury was really unlucky because he was playing the best hockey I've seen from him in some time.

I think Girardi had a career year last season, and we were extremely fortunate that it came at a time when Staal was out. This year Girardi looks closer to the player he was before last season - inconsistent in terms of his positioning and handling the puck like a grenade at times.

McDonagh's inconsistency isn't that surprising to me, he's still young. But he needs to make more of an effort around the crease, the last few games he has let opposing forwards camp out in front of Hank and it's resulted in goals against.

Del Zotto was playing well with Staal earlier in the year. He needs to be on a pairing with someone who is solid defensively to cover him when he makes mistakes. Him and Stralman were awful last night.
 
All being a bubble team and losing in one round does is keep Torts his job and the Dolans breaking even . Pure mediocrity . As for LA , NO D man on NYR is Drew Doughty and Scuderi and Willie Mitchell are as good as our guys also. The LAK did it as an. 8 th seed is not even remotely close to this group.
Richards < Kopitar
Richards > than Stepan and Richards
Brown > Callahan
Carter > Gaborik
Penner > PYatt
And the lis goes on
 
Kershaw said:
Yeah they're pretty unlucky this year too and have usually outplayed opponents this yr. Top 6 outside of Richards hasn't really been a problem for me. But I still think the defense and bottom 6 is overrated. Our 7th best scorer is Taylor Pyatt, he was 14th in TOI/PG for Coyotes forwards. Kreider/Miller looking really bad picks now. We have no depth to do well on a playoff run. Our players will be exhausted like they were last year and make boneheaded mistakes. I'd love them to prove me wrong, but as Synergy27 said, it'll hurt less to go in with low expectations. I don't think the Rangers ever win a cup with Staal as their best d-man and Richards as their top center. Good, not great players.
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Pretty reasonable post except for a few things:
-i wouldn't give up on Kreider and
Miller so fast by classifying them
as lousy picks.

-Staal is not our best defenseman
going forward, it's McDonagh(not that it really matters because if you chose Staal, Girardi or McD, they are all fairly equal in ability and none of them are that wonderful!

As presently constructed, the Rangers are a bottom of the pack team because they don't have much top tier talent and their depth stinks!
 
No sacred cows sell Girardi for a solid center prospect that is ready to play , promote Macilrath and see what you have .
 
Drewbackatu said:
Pretty reasonable post except for a few things:
-i wouldn't give up on Kreider and
Miller so fast by classifying them
as lousy picks.

-Staal is not our best defenseman
going forward, it's McDonagh(not that it really matters because if you chose Staal, Girardi or McD, they are all fairly equal in ability and none of them are that wonderful!

As presently constructed, the Rangers are a bottom of the pack team because they don't have much top tier talent and their depth stinks!
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Meh I don't see it. Best case is they'll become Dubinsky/Callahan lite. I don't see much upside in either of them. Should be decent 3rd line grinders.
 
Kershaw said:
True. I have no idea what he is at this point. Doesn't play physical, doesn't generate offense.
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Or...his first pro season just isn't going well and he has plenty of time to round out his game. We're writing him off because he's a struggling 20 year old?
 
Grind Jam Grind said:
Or...his first pro season just isn't going well and he has plenty of time to round out his game. We're writing him off because he's a struggling 20 year old?
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I don't think he has the hockey smarts to be a 1st line player. Give Callahan or Stepan his tools and they'd be elite players.
 
Kershaw said:
I don't think he has the hockey smarts to be a 1st line player. Give Callahan or Stepan his tools and they'd be elite players.
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Callahan wasn't even in the NHL at all, or riding the Wolfpack bus at Kreider's current age. Seriously, can we give prospects time before writing them off?
 
Grind Jam Grind said:
Callahan wasn't even in the NHL at all, or riding the Wolfpack bus at Kreider's current age. Seriously, can we give prospects time before writing them off?
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False. At age 21, Callahan had 55 pts in 60 games, good for a .91 PPG. Kreider on the other hand at the same age is half of that at a mediocre .41 PPG.
 
Kershaw said:
False. At age 21, Callahan had 55 pts in 60 games, good for a .91 PPG. Kreider on the other hand at the same age is half of that at a mediocre .41 PPG.
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Sorry for the confusion. I meant that he was rising the bus in Hartford at age 21.

But Callahan wasn't playing in the NHL playoffs at age 20 either. Don't know what it is with Kreider. Expectations? Trouble adjusting to the grind of a full pro season? Whatever it is, I'm not ready to give up on him as a prospect just yet.

If Kreider lives up to his full potential, he is not going to be a third line grinder.
 
Grind Jam Grind said:
Sorry for the confusion. I meant that he was rising the bus in Hartford at age 21.

But Callahan wasn't playing in the NHL playoffs at age 20 either. Don't know what it is with Kreider. Expectations? Trouble adjusting to the grind of a full pro season? Whatever it is, I'm not ready to give up on him as a prospect just yet.

If Kreider lives up to his full potential, he is not going to be a third line grinder.
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Do you think Cally is a 3rd line grinder?
 
Drewbackatu said:
Pretty reasonable post except for a few things:
-i wouldn't give up on Kreider and
Miller so fast by classifying them
as lousy picks.

-Staal is not our best defenseman
going forward, it's McDonagh(not that it really matters because if you chose Staal, Girardi or McD, they are all fairly equal in ability and none of them are that wonderful!

As presently constructed, the Rangers are a bottom of the pack team because they don't have much top tier talent and their depth stinks!
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This is extremely false on two counts. Girardi is not equal to Staal/McDonagh they are both far better than G, who I love but let's be real he played way over his head last year and came back down to earth this year. Also, those two ARE wonderful defensemen. Staal is a defensive beast and was developing his offensive game pretty well until he got injured. McDonagh is a fantastic two-way defensemen who can skate very well and is great positionally. I don't know how you can watch either of them and not see that they are wonderful defensemen.
 
pld459666 said:
Guys,

Can we stop the non-sense about being good on paper.

We have a solid top 6 on paper. Nash, Cally, Stepan, Hags, Richie and Gabby.

The rest of what we have are rookies that are still dripping wet behind the ears (Miller and Kreider) and talentless hacks (Boyle, Powe, Halpern, Pyatt, Asham and Haley)

We're not good on paper. We're medicore at best on paper.

The defence is all top 4. After that, back to talentless hacks. Eminger, Hamrlik, Stralman, Gilroy and Bikcel.

A slight nod to Stralman who has played well this year, but playing with those others guys exposes him and lately, he's been getting joked....REGULARLY.

Fine in Net.

Overall, we are medicore team that should be better but we've got Father Time doing a number in Richards and Gaborik deciding that he's to fragile to play hard anymore.

On paper, this team is a 7-10 seed and playoff fodder for Pitt or Boston.
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There's not a team in the league that is perfect at every position. You sacrifice depth for top talent, and vice versa.

When it comes to paper, we're easily among the best in the league. Richards and Gaborik not producing is what's killing us.

Can you imagine what it would have been like last year if they both pulled this?
 
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