Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Islanders -- 4/9/21

[kovazub94]

Prior to this past KHL season he was scoring almost all his goals from the right circle, pretty sure I recall him literally scoring like 6 straight goals to start the year all from that spot. I’d rather mold him into that than the bumper role as a lot of players can do that bumper role, not many can score like that from the top of the circle. Kravtsov has a great shot!

Probably eventually - yes. I was talking right now.

 

[Nickmo82]

He who laughs last laughs best.

Not bad, but here is my current thinking:

LW - C - RW
Kakko - Krav - Panarin
Kreider - Zib - Blackwell
LaF - Chytil - Gauthier
PDG - Blackwell - Gettinger

Your last laugh includes Blackwell double-shifting on the 2nd/4th lines and Kakko/Panarin on their off wing. Intentional?

 

[Larrybiv]

I think that really benefited the kids. They got to roll lines and no one got stuck on the bench for a long time.

Another game where we got a glimpse of what the future could be.

Really impressed with Kravtsov. Set up Howden and Rooney several times. They really should think of trying him at C at some point. he's so gifted. And he's done a great, great job at finding space for a young kid. He's faster than Kakko and Laf and you can see it. Just really impressed with him.

Last bunch of games Kakko has gotten an assist and has threatened for more. In addition to his one assist, he made a big play that led to K'Andre's goal.

KZB was okay at best. Z is back to being foggy out there. He scored a goal but didn't look great. And Buch was really forcing his passes too much. Kreider's speed and defensive play was a great contribution.

The number one issue with our young goalies (and really with all goalies) is battling to see shots through bodies. The long shots kill us because our D is mediocre at shot blocking and crease clearing. A lot of the goals that get scored on us are the long shot, tips/screens/rebounds variety. As we get deeper on the blue line the hope is some of that goes away.

Finally, I did not realize the Islanders play that fast. Wow, the pace was elevated compared to the PGH games.

Kind of underrated that way, as they are more known for coaching and their "shut down" team defense.
But man, any team that has Barzal will back off any team. I think we did a great job with him. He didnt seem to have any space in general, and wishing Smitty would have connected, but didnt wanna see him hurt, which probably would have happened if Smitty did. Great play though.

 

[bernmeister]

If we’re talking lines, I’m putting Kreider on the third line. He’s sleepwalking at this point.

Not a crime to follow typical, historical convention clearly designated 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th line.
I would suggest in this case we focus on figuring out the combos that work best.
I'd assemble Kakko-Kravtsov-Panarin and consider it our top line, b'c it's breadman.
But another line carried by Zib could seek 'first' or 'top' status.
Again, point is to focus on chemistry and combos more than rigid designations.
An clearer example is our D. obv K'A M is arguably our top LD taking into acct both performance and potential upside. But we don't pencil him at 1LD not only b'c of Lindgren, but b'c Lindy is paired w/Fox, who is not just 1RD, but our best RD constituting our top D pair. So that, plus we have K'A playing well w/Trouba on 2nd pair, means K'A is effectively 2nd pairing, regardless of what K'A is in a vacuum.

After KK-VK-AP,
the next 2 units are

Kreider-Zib-Blackwell
which keeps the established K-Z chemistry while freshly pushed by Blackwell replacing the to be dealt Buch

and
LaF-Chytil-Gauthier
again, I view Chytil now as a 2C w/upside.
But I am more focused that he is in this line which has best chance to succeed due to chemistry. Fact this is a 'third' line compared to Panarin's as 1st and Zib's as 2nd is not critical.

Can't do that, or should I say "shouldn't" do that. Don't wanna break up that kid line. They're building nice chemistry and are relying on one another, raising their level of play. OMG, they're going to be possession freaks!
Of course, some day they will be, but man.....I would leave them be.
They didn't have to score and you could still see how they were playing. But, when they did.....that just compounded their excitement and were imposing their youth and will to score. I was flabbergasted and excited to no end, seeing what they are capable of as a group.

A lot of these guys can ultimately mesh on alternate lines.
However, with both idea to get fastest, immediate chemistry AND avoid the stupidity we see from AV-DQ continuing, to avoid excessive line changing, I roll with these:
Kakko-Krav-Panarin
Kreider-Zib-Blackwell
LaF-Chytil-Gauthier
best of the rest

the above combos imo give each line:
a driver of play;
a facilitator;
a finisher/scorer

which I think is a recipe for success.
Your thoughts?

 

[bernmeister]

Man... if only they traded Kreider for a center last year at the deadline instead of signing him.

not so fast.
And this is from the guy who is constantly pushing deal vets for youth...

Kreider does run hot and cold, but when he is hot he provides a beast factor which until KK and to lesser extent VK and DG got here, nobody else is showing.

Kreider also stepped up when Panarin was out.
Also, we'd have lost a chunk of what he would have brought to help Zib excel.
I think standardization of lines as I suggested would help immensely.

Finally, an open mind on who we would be getting, who would we be getting, and how likely is that guy to hit upside?
The prominent name was Newhook, right?

Would rather deal Buch + BUF 2021 3rd now for CAR 2021 2nd + 2022 1st + rights to Drury, who is a pivot.

 

[QJL]

not so fast.
And this is from the guy who is constantly pushing deal vets for youth...

Kreider does run hot and cold, but when he is hot he provides a beast factor which until KK and to lesser extent VK and DG got here, nobody else is showing.

Kreider also stepped up when Panarin was out.
Also, we'd have lost a chunk of what he would have brought to help Zib excel.
I think standardization of lines as I suggested would help immensely.

Finally, an open mind on who we would be getting, who would we be getting, and how likely is that guy to hit upside?
The prominent name was Newhook, right?

Would rather deal Buch + BUF 2021 3rd now for CAR 2021 2nd + 2022 1st + rights to Drury, who is a pivot.

Carolina is probably the #1 one team in the league I’m not trading Buchnevich to. They are set up to be the top threat in our division over the next 5-7 years.

 

[bl02]

Carolina is probably the #1 one team in the league I’m not trading Buchnevich to. They are set up to be the top threat in our division over the next 5-7 years.

Agreed Unless they part with an exciting prospect like Necas or Jarvis which probably won’t happen

 

[bernmeister]

Your last laugh includes Blackwell double-shifting on the 2nd/4th lines and Kakko/Panarin on their off wing. Intentional?

good catch, and not exactly intentional.

Want Barron to get 4 games only experience, pref on that line.
The idea is Barron can seize that position, then that is the plan effective next season. Which then pushes Blackwell to 4C or W on 4th line.

That leaves a dozen + games other than Barron's cup of coffee.

So to be clear balance of this season Blackwell [Barron notwithstanding] at 2RW.
Meaning 4th line is open tryouts for gettinger + and to see what get out of whoev is not traded from Rooney, Howden.

Again, good catch.
I expressed the basic idea but did not articulate it precisely.
What I actually said in pertinent part is below, verbatim.

....Not bad, but here is my current thinking:

LW - C - RW
Kakko - Krav - Panarin
Kreider - Zib - Blackwell
LaF - Chytil - Gauthier
PDG - Blackwell - Gettinger

give Barron 4 games cup o coffee that does not apply an elc yr
next yr, can see if Barron is ready for top line day 1 or if he needs to wade in. If yes, he takes 2RW, Blackwell then to 4th line.
...

 

[Kodiak]

Getting out to a 2-0 lead was important. Sunday’s game it’s going to be important not to be chasing the game because the isles can shut you right down. Rangers aren’t good at chasing games anyway.

I thought Chytil’s line was our best tonight and more often than not they were out against Barzal’s line. I thought both Lafreniere and Kakko were outstanding. Kravtsov looked terrific too. You can see he’s getting more confident with every game and the 4th line is looking more and more dangerous.

It’s always great to beat the Islanders.

I love that Trotz clearly wanted a Barzal-Chytil matchup (and understandably so) but it just didn’t work for him at all.

 

[bernmeister]

Carolina is probably the #1 one team in the league I’m not trading Buchnevich to. They are set up to be the top threat in our division over the next 5-7 years.

Agreed Unless they part with an exciting prospect like Necas or Jarvis which probably won’t happen

This posture deserves a separate 'what if' thread to hypothetical the pros and cons to see if this assumption is actually true.

There are a lot of variables beyond what is short term.
Buch's deal ends this yr. Next season and the following, due to covid, should be somewhat cost controlled. After that he likely commands too much to consider keeping esp since at this pt we are presum extending Zib.

If that is the case, now is the time to deal Buch b'c he will never be more affordable to the acquiring team AND balance of this season he helps w/playoff push. Is that part of it subject to dispute? Also not to be overlooked here and which is obv, we really need to give his mins to Chytil, Krav, KK, Gauthier.

That then leads to the fair ? of where do we get the most for Buch? If all variables in equation were =, I'd prefer him out of conference. Like to VAN for Polodzkin [or whatev his name is, not enuf coffee yet]. Howev, they have their own concerns balancing a partial rebuild on the fly while contending. So that may not work for them.

I would want the top return, and avoid the foolishness of trying to force a square into a circle by insisting on a C prospect who is so good, so close to ready and so can't miss, he is nonetheless gonna get dealt. That doesn't typically happen and defeats the above established point of the virtue of moving Buch now.

Up the 2021 3rd into a 2nd, take a better year 2022 1st and take Drury, who looks like a diamond in the not too rough.

As for being intimidated by Buch in our division, we have to both
a) consider beyond short term, b'c the longer you project out the more likely this deal is profitable to NY assuming both the pick/Drury is not a bust, which is a reasonable expectation;
and
b) you play with confidence in your own ability in pursuit of excellence. That is the correct path to take.
Look at the Yankees.
Exceptions do prove the rule, but substantially, the Yankees are the team to beat based on how they develop themselves, not moves they make to deny other clubs.

What would be a better return for Buch, with or without a C prospect, and from where?

 

[duhmetreE]

I love that Trotz clearly wanted a Barzal-Chytil matchup (and understandably so) but it just didn’t work for him at all.

I still think Chytil has been struggling. The production is coming though

I'd honestly switch up Zibs and Chytil. KZB has been flat far too often. I know Quinn likes to match them up but it's worthless when you dont have last change.

Lafreniere Zibs Kakko
Panarin Strome Blackwell
Kreider Chytil Buchnevich

unfortunately, Kravtsov has to carry Howden and Rooney... up until the TDL at least

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

I agree in principle, but would really like to see Gauthier in there for Howden. Howden isn’t an NHL player unfortunately. Has trouble receiving passes, no vision at all, and not a particularly effective forechecker either. I truly do not understand the staff’s infatuation with him.

I really wonder if it's that they think his looks make him appealing to a certain potential audience, and they're trying to market a product.

Nothing else makes sense, except maybe they can't admit they made a bad trade a few years ago. Or maybe Howden is like a teacher's pet in practice, and they keep him as an example?

I mean, sometimes they've overhyped goonish types (Hi Tanner!), I guess cuz they want to appeal to fans that love fighting, but Howden is not a big fighter or "sandpaper" guy.

Wish they'd just play the best players. Hearing Joe go on about "hard-working Howden" on a broadcast I have to pay for is really annoying.

 

[NYSPORTS]

to VAN for Polodzkin [or whatev his name is, not enuf coffee yet]. Howev, they have their own concerns balancing a partial rebuild on the fly while contending. So that may not work for them.

they seem to love him but there is nothing on the scoresheet to love. He and Raty seem to be going down the same road. I’ll take them both on potential and style of play whereas their stats are sad.

 

[bl02]

This posture deserves a separate 'what if' thread to hypothetical the pros and cons to see if this assumption is actually true.

There are a lot of variables beyond what is short term.
Buch's deal ends this yr. Next season and the following, due to covid, should be somewhat cost controlled. After that he likely commands too much to consider keeping esp since at this pt we are presum extending Zib.

If that is the case, now is the time to deal Buch b'c he will never be more affordable to the acquiring team AND balance of this season he helps w/playoff push. Is that part of it subject to dispute? Also not to be overlooked here and which is obv, we really need to give his mins to Chytil, Krav, KK, Gauthier.

That then leads to the fair ? of where do we get the most for Buch? If all variables in equation were =, I'd prefer him out of conference. Like to VAN for Polodzkin [or whatev his name is, not enuf coffee yet]. Howev, they have their own concerns balancing a partial rebuild on the fly while contending. So that may not work for them.

I would want the top return, and avoid the foolishness of trying to force a square into a circle by insisting on a C prospect who is so good, so close to ready and so can't miss, he is nonetheless gonna get dealt. That doesn't typically happen and defeats the above established point of the virtue of moving Buch now.

Up the 2021 3rd into a 2nd, take a better year 2022 1st and take Drury, who looks like a diamond in the not too rough.

As for being intimidated by Buch in our division, we have to both
a) consider beyond short term, b'c the longer you project out the more likely this deal is profitable to NY assuming both the pick/Drury is not a bust, which is a reasonable expectation;
and
b) you play with confidence in your own ability in pursuit of excellence. That is the correct path to take.
Look at the Yankees.
Exceptions do prove the rule, but substantially, the Yankees are the team to beat based on how they develop themselves, not moves they make to deny other clubs.

What would be a better return for Buch, with or without a C prospect, and from where?

I like podkolzin but he’s a wing and his game fits the wing mold. I just don’t know even with Buch gone where we fit in all these wingers that need time to really improve their games unless we are moving Kravtsov to center?
If we aren’t getting a center or center prospect then I guess fair value picks? But I think like many have said JG is gonna want ready to go players not some pick 3 years away

 

[bernmeister]

I still think Chytil has been struggling. The production is coming though

I'd honestly switch up Zibs and Chytil. KZB has been flat far too often. I know Quinn likes to match them up but it's worthless when you dont have last change.

Lafreniere Zibs Kakko
Panarin Strome Blackwell
Kreider Chytil Buchnevich

unfortunately, Kravtsov has to carry Howden and Rooney... up until the TDL at least

Chytil lost time due to injury and obv w/HCDQ is jerked all over lineup.

IMO, this is the line that should get 111% of repeated mins, let it develop chemistry:
LaF-Chytil-Gauthier

 

[chosen]

Agreed Unless they part with an exciting prospect like Necas or Jarvis which probably won’t happen

Probably?

Good luck trying to get Necas from Carolina.

 

[chosen]

Chytil lost time due to injury and obv w/HCDQ is jerked all over lineup.

IMO, this is the line that should get 111% of repeated mins, let it develop chemistry:
LaF-Chytil-Gauthier

My assessment of Gauthier falls way below most everyone else's here. He makes some bad plays and possesses one offensive move. To be fair, he used to have none.

 

[bl02]

Probably?

Good luck trying to get Necas from Carolina.

Yep for sure. Kid looks good

 

[bernmeister]

I like podkolzin but he’s a wing and his game fits the wing mold. I just don’t know even with Buch gone where we fit in all these wingers that need time to really improve their games unless we are moving Kravtsov to center?
If we aren’t getting a center or center prospect then I guess fair value picks? But I think like many have said JG is gonna want ready to go players not some pick 3 years away

We should move Krav to C but at least stage 1 do it w/line that has best chance to succeed, i.e., KK-VK-AP

------
We should not force issues trying to manufacture returns that are not there.

A guy who has that much upside, can play C, is close enuf to ready to be imminent, with the shortage of Cs league wide, those guys don't get dealt.

Take the best return, develop the picks, give our current kids mins.

As to podkolzin I agree he is a W and does not have same chance to be turned into a pivot [thought I heard someone thought maybe he could go there, but I don't see it either].

He would be a good guy to take tho if offered to help w/keeping talent high while driving down cap costs short term.

 

[bl02]

My assessment of Gauthier falls way below most everyone else's here. He makes some bad plays and possesses one offensive move. To be fair, he used to have none.

Would like to see a bit more of him. Just can’t teach the tools And size he has. I totally understand he could just be a high scoring ahl player like he’s proven but would be nice to give him a fair shot.

 

[bernmeister]

My assessment of Gauthier falls way below most everyone else's here. He makes some bad plays and possesses one offensive move. To be fair, he used to have none.

Agree to disagree on him, then
peace out

 

[PuckLuck3043]

My assessment of Gauthier falls way below most everyone else's here. He makes some bad plays and possesses one offensive move. To be fair, he used to have none.

Since Howden possesses zero offensive moves I would love to see a Goat-Rooney-Kravs 4th line for the remainder of the season. I think they could do some damage.

 

[will1066]

Let's do a Sam March Madness bracket.

"He scores! No! The puck didn't go in."

 

[Fitzy]

Honestly Kreider's biggest value is a PP specialist, followed by his ability to stretch the ice when the neutral zone is clogged.

These two things can just as easily be utilized/accomplished with him on the third line as on the first.

Once Lafreniere was chosen, it was an inevitability that Kreider was going to become a role player/leader on this team, but will be outplaced from the top six. Which is fine, he's just on the expensive side. Ditto for Trouba.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

That would be the same coach who was moronic enough to put a plug in the top 6? Oh, wait, he's our hottest goal-scorer.

I believe that's the same coach that everyone here said will stifle the growth of the young players, but now everyone is saying all the youngsters are improving. How can that be?

The conventional wisdom is the big loser here in Ranger board land.

they could be improving, but not at near the rate they should be.