Speculation: Rangers Head Coach Search (Laviolette being finalized? According to Vince and Friedman)

[Machinehead]

Nah. Zibanejad or Kreider will be 4 if either or both stumble out of the gate.


I mean, that should be the case. Thing is who replaces him? I don't see Ryan Martin being promoted from within even though he'd be a decent choice. How much you want to bet Dolan brings in a good 'ol boy instead of someone that would be competent?

I would be willing to try anybody who hasn't already been here or been trained by the people already here.

We're still zero degrees from Glen Sather whether people want to admit it or not.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's often valued by lazy executives who aren't doing the right thing.

Like it or not, just because someone is in a front office doesn't mean they are right and the fans are wrong. Not that we can do their job per se but it's the old "when I can see the roof leaking I know the roofer did his job wrong," scenario.




How many eventually won Cups with the first team that hired them as a head coach? Is that the question?

It seems in the past 15 years or so, most Cup winning coaches are on more like their second or third team. There are asterisks, there, though, because in the instance of a guy like Trotz he was in Nashville forever and was clearly a very highly regarded coach and they just needed a change. Yes, it wasn't Lav's first job when he won in Carolina but he was a younger coach.

I think the template based on history would be to get a guy like Keefe. Rangers would be his second team, young enough to still have new ideas, has had success in Toronto.

Laviollette has been fired 5 times and is a much different scenario. In his case it seems like experience for experience's sake.

Obviously Keefe isn't available, so it is what it is.

Please bear in mind I said earlier that Lavi is probably the best of the uninspiring group they've been chasing.

I just think if the ideal (like Keefe) isn't available, then it's time to roll the dice.

No offense but you seem like you are more worried about the guy being shiny and new than if the guy can actually coach. Most of the best head coaches in history had many jobs. It took Trotz 4 years to win in Washington. Many fans on this board would have screamed for him to be fired in his first 2 years. Many younger fans wrote off Lindsy Ruff as a "retread" but he just had a pretty darn good season in NJ. Darryl Sutter was on his 4th job (retread) when he won 2 Cups. The last coach to win a cup for the Rangers was on his 3rd job. Scotty Bowman was 68 when he won his last cup. That was also his 5th job.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

With nobody else shaking loose (Sullivan, Keefe, RBA...) Laviolette definitely makes the most sense on paper of what the Rangers are looking for.

I think with the desire for a non retread that he's actually becoming underrated as a coach here. He's good and deserves a chance before deciding he sucks.

Comparing him to Gallant he basically has everything that Gallant didn't while also having what he did. He's a veteran coach with a lot of success and experience like Gallant but his teams play more structured and he at least has a system and isn't as hands off as Gallant. He also has a track record for having his teams do well in the first couple seasons after taking over which is extremely important to this current group.


I think it's misguided to assume that Laviolette is going to suck just because he's a retread same as it is misguided to assume a younger coach with no or limited NHL head coaching experience is going to be good just 'because', see Quinn, David.

 

[mas0764]

No offense but you seem like you are more worried about the guy being shiny and new than if the guy can actually coach.

No offense but you are misreading the situation then.

Most of the best head coaches in history had many jobs. It took Trotz 4 years to win in Washington. Many fans on this board would have screamed for him to be fired in his first 2 years. Many younger fans wrote off Lindsy Ruff as a "retread" but he just had a pretty darn good season in NJ. Darryl Sutter was on his 4th job (retread) when he won 2 Cups. The last coach to win a cup for the Rangers was on his 3rd job. Scotty Bowman was 68 when he won his last cup. That was also his 5th job.

Uh huh, but as I said earlier, it's not about age per se. Instead, Laviollete seems like a guy who just isn't what this team needs and doesn't have fresh, modern ideas that are necessary for today's game. That, and developing young players, are the two primary things this org needs. Laviolette seems like more of the same old ideas.

I think he's the best retread of a bad group of retreads and the admin is unwilling to roll the dice. That seems like a bad idea to me when the trend seems to be innovation.

 

[NickyFotiu]

No offense but you are misreading the situation then.



Uh huh, but as I said earlier, it's not about age per se. Instead, Laviollete seems like a guy who just isn't what this team needs and doesn't have fresh, modern ideas that are necessary for today's game. That, and developing young players, are the two primary things this org needs. Laviolette seems like more of the same old ideas.

I think he's the best retread of a bad group of retreads and the admin is unwilling to roll the dice. That seems like a bad idea to me when the trend seems to be innovation.

Okay hypothetically lets make you GM of the Rangers. Please tell me 3 guys you would hire as head coach. With each of the 3 guys show me 3 specific examples of how they develop young guys as a head coach. Also please show me 3 specific fresh modern ideas they have that you are so high on. Thanks in advance.

 

[mas0764]

Okay hypothetically lets make you GM of the Rangers. Please tell me 3 guys you would hire as head coach. With each of the 3 guys show me 3 specific examples of how they develop young guys as a head coach. Also please show me 3 specific fresh modern ideas they have that you are so high on. Thanks in advance.

The names and ideas have been mentioned many times in this thread.

 

[Mandar]

The names and ideas have been mentioned many times in this thread.

c'mon now....thats lazy....I believe Nicky wanted your opinion here.....you are better than that.....I think....

 

[NickyFotiu]

The names and ideas have been mentioned many times in this thread.

If you believe so much in your guys it should be easy for you to:

1. Name your 3 young non retread guys that you want as our head coach.
2. Show us 3 specific examples of how they develop young guys as a head coach.
3. Show us 3 specific fresh modern ideas that you say they should have.

 

[Kravtsov420]

I think the idea of someone new is romanticized. Jay Leach sounds nice but how many of us really know the ins and outs of what he brings? What’s his system?

I’m just afraid of getting a David Quinn, ah he’s a young coach that coaches young guys, he must be knowledgeable on how to develop them.

Fast forward to being literally the same type of coach as the merry-go-round.
Poor accountability, insane micromanager, etc.

 

[mas0764]

c'mon now....thats lazy....I believe Nicky wanted your opinion here.....you are better than that.....I think....

It's not lazy. The "name who is better," move is usually disingenuous because the person asking the question clearly already has made up their mind on the subject.

There have been many potential coaches named in this past 90 pages. I'm not conducting interviews so I don't have access to every bit of the information.

As an example, a guy like Jay Leach has been talked about as being novel and up and coming in terms of defensive structure. A guy like him with an offensive-minded assistant coach could be a good pairing. But Drury could have reached deep and surprised us with someone none of us had on our radar and I think that probably would have been a superior direction as well.

And again... I think Laviolette is probably the best hire of the names that were on the table. I just think they were prioritizing the wrong direction.

 

[will1066]

Really hoping for shaved heads in solidarity and Mika Zibaldnejad as a result.

It's like 99% official. Even my local news was mentioning the hire will be announced soon.

Why is Anaheim talking about the Rangers?

 

[Leonardo87]

Why is Anaheim talking about the Rangers?

Good one.

 

[NYR94]

Panarin must have lost a "if they hire Laviolette I'll shave my head" bet

 

[cwede]

so this is shaping up as a potential landmark moment for NYR Prospect watchers,
as a one-time NYR prospect may become the next NYR HC ..

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Age doesn’t matter per se but age tends to indicate staleness and Lavi seems stale and outdated.

I did say earlier I think he’s the best of the 3-4 coaches we were actually considering. I’m sure we also wanted Keefe or Sullivan if they shook free. The problem is that we aren’t willing to gamble on a young fresh mind.

This seems more and more, just like our roster moves, like it’s not “grow into a powerhouse,” but “Cup with this aging team that’s not an on-paper favorite, or bust.”

And I suspect it’s bust and in two years we will be doing this rebuild again.

With a young coach with elite upside like Cooper was, you could let him grow into the role around your young stars. Our problem is that everything we do is based on the ticking clocks of Kreider and Panarin anymore. And by god Kreider is the most overrated player ever if we are making franchise decisions around his impending decline. Nice player but we treat him like our franchise player and he’s not and never has been.

I really don't understand your obsession to shit on Kreider. You have been looking to trade him ever since his new contract but he has earned every cent. The guy just scored 6 goals and 9 points against the Devils and has scored 88 goals the last 2 years. He's 32 and is a physical beast. He trains hard and takes care of his body and should be a very productive player into his mid 30's. He's one of the best net front presences in the game and that skill is not going to decline with age.

 

[mas0764]

I really don't understand your obsession to shit on Kreider.

We elevate him to a status that is not deserved. We treat him on par with Zibanejad and Panarin and he's just not that important to our present or future.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think the idea of someone new is romanticized. Jay Leach sounds nice but how many of us really know the ins and outs of what he brings? What’s his system?

I’m just afraid of getting a David Quinn, ah he’s a young coach that coaches young guys, he must be knowledgeable on how to develop them.

Fast forward to being literally the same type of coach as the merry-go-round.
Poor accountability, insane micromanager, etc.

When somebody mentions a young coaches modern offensive system and fresh ideas I ask what they are specifically and usually hear nothing back.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's not lazy. The "name who is better," move is usually disingenuous because the person asking the question clearly already has made up their mind on the subject.

There have been many potential coaches named in this past 90 pages. I'm not conducting interviews so I don't have access to every bit of the information.

As an example, a guy like Jay Leach has been talked about as being novel and up and coming in terms of defensive structure. A guy like him with an offensive-minded assistant coach could be a good pairing. But Drury could have reached deep and surprised us with someone none of us had on our radar and I think that probably would have been a superior direction as well.

And again... I think Laviolette is probably the best hire of the names that were on the table. I just think they were prioritizing the wrong direction.

I did not say anything about name someone better. I have nothing against any coach young or old being hired. I want the best guy. Nothing more or less. I'm one of the few guys saying I will root for any coach we hire. I'm the guy saying we should give any coach a fair chance. I just ask that you back up your posts. If you say a guy will have a modern offensive season, fresh ideas, and develops young guys well I simply ask for you to show us what we should expect with specific examples. You refuse to do that.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

We elevate him to a status that is not deserved. We treat him on par with Zibanejad and Panarin and he's just not that important to our present or future.

He is just as important in many ways. He does things that they don't and he is a leader and respected vet and probably should have been named captain. While Mika and Panarin were fumbling their way to a total of 1 goal in the playoffs Kreider was the teams leading scorer. He's one of the last players I would like to see traded.

 

[mas0764]

I did not say anything about name someone better. I have nothing against any coach young or old being hired. I want the best guy. Nothing more or less. I'm one of the few guys saying I will root for any coach we hire.

I am rooting for Laviolette, who says I'm not?

I'm just moderately pessimistic.

It could work out. I think he's a better option than Hynes and I have some hope he's better than Gallant.

Not that that is hard to accomplish.

 

[haveandare]

So many people are hung up on age or retread or not. Imo the tbing I don’t like about Laviolette is that he hasn’t had success in a long time now. Great he’s been to the finals 3 times - but none are recent. The game has changed massively in the past 5 years or so. I’d prefer someone who has had recent success either as an assistant as this level or a headcoach at the AHL level.

 

[mas0764]

He is just as important in many ways.

Nah, I just don't agree remotely.

So I guess that is the answer to your original question.

The fact that so many people in the org echo your sentiment is one of the reasons why we don't win anything. Our highest end forwards simply don't stack up consistently.

So many people are hung up on age or retread or not. Imo the tbing I don’t like about Laviolette is that he hasn’t had success in a long time now. Great he’s been to the finals 3 times - but none are recent. The game has changed massively in the past 5 years or so. I’d prefer someone who has had recent success either as an assistant as this level or a headcoach at the AHL level.

Not having had success in a long time is directly related to the fact that he's been recycled so often.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I am rooting for Laviolette, who says I'm not?

I'm just moderately pessimistic.

It could work out. I think he's a better option than Hynes and I have some hope he's better than Gallant.

Not that that is hard to accomplish.

I'm not saying you aren't rooting for Laf.

My post in regards to coaches is pointed at you but I could have asked the same thing of multiple posters. When some people say XYZ head coach without NHL head coaching experience will bring a modern offensive system, develop young guys and bring fresh ideas they should be able to give specific examples. Otherwise it is just one assumption after another. If people said that about David Quinn 5 years ago would they have been right?

 

[NickyFotiu]

So many people are hung up on age or retread or not. Imo the tbing I don’t like about Laviolette is that he hasn’t had success in a long time now. Great he’s been to the finals 3 times - but none are recent. The game has changed massively in the past 5 years or so. I’d prefer someone who has had recent success either as an assistant as this level or a headcoach at the AHL level.

That is fair. That is much better than making blanket assumptions. I would say 6 years ago is really not that long ago in a 32 team league.

 

[mas0764]

I'm not saying you aren't rooting for Laf.

My post in regards to coaches is pointed at you but I could have asked the same thing of multiple posters. When some people say XYZ head coach without NHL head coaching experience will bring a modern offensive system, develop young guys and bring fresh ideas they should be able to give specific examples. Otherwise it is just one assumption after another. If people said that about David Quinn 5 years ago would they have been right?

Drury needs to make it clear to whoever he hires that developing the youth and coming up with fresh schemes is priority #1. Which he clearly didn't send that memo to Quinn.

I mean, obviously winning is priority #1, but it should be winning the Cup, not just compiling regular season wins, and Drury should make it clear that winning the Cup is contingent upon developing the kids and unlocking the vets with creative systems. Hoepfully Lavi is willing to make changes but his most recent stop doesn't inspire confidence.