Proposal: Rangers-Ducks (Nash/Fowler)
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Sojourn
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- Nov 1, 2006
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He's looking at shot metrics, and likely little but that.
Fowler was used heavily by Boudreau for breakout purposes. Even to the point where as soon as the puck was crossing the offensive blue line, you'd see Fowler getting off the ice. That was even a source of frustration from Anaheim fans, because if Fowler was the one carrying the puck, you'd see him dump it in and then go for a change. It was too common an occurrence not to be coach mandated.
That's really the long and the short of it. Fowler was consistently put into a situation where shots were more likely to be taken on his net. That's why you'll see players having better shot metrics away from Fowler. It's role related.
I also suspect that's why Lindholm and Manson had such good shot metrics themselves. When Fowler is moved, those numbers are going to even out. That doesn't mean Lindholm or Manson suddenly got worse, because I think the opposite will be true. But the Ducks will still need someone to break the puck out in tough situations, and Lindholm is a better bet for that than Vatanen.
Off Sides
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- Sep 8, 2008
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I think it comes down to risk versus reward for Nash. (I am one of the few Ranger fans who would expect an underpayment)
If the Rangers risk Nash has a better season or does not, they have not risked all that much given the likely return for him right now.
Any team that traded for Nash, they are risking that both Nash has a better season, or two, and that what they gave away is equivalent to whatever Nash's contribution would be. Other than a severe underpayment, they would carry a much higher risk.
Reward for the Rangers waiting, unknown. Yet with prorated cap hit for that year, or by retention later on, who knows, it's not like his value can go down that much given other team seemingly are offering almost nothing of substance for him.
Reward for the other team waiting, they carry less risk without making the deal now, and if they have to pay more later, they carry less risk by knowing what sort of season he is having to date.
If the Rangers risk Nash has a better season or does not, they have not risked all that much given the likely return for him right now.
Any team that traded for Nash, they are risking that both Nash has a better season, or two, and that what they gave away is equivalent to whatever Nash's contribution would be. Other than a severe underpayment, they would carry a much higher risk.
Reward for the Rangers waiting, unknown. Yet with prorated cap hit for that year, or by retention later on, who knows, it's not like his value can go down that much given other team seemingly are offering almost nothing of substance for him.
Reward for the other team waiting, they carry less risk without making the deal now, and if they have to pay more later, they carry less risk by knowing what sort of season he is having to date.
Theridion
Registered User
I like Nash.
But he makes too much for the Ducks to afford.
And Fowler's contract and age are both reasonable with a few years left.
If I was building a team and had to select one of the two, I take Fowler over and over. Just a solid top pairing player who is only going to get better the more experience he gets.
But he makes too much for the Ducks to afford.
And Fowler's contract and age are both reasonable with a few years left.
If I was building a team and had to select one of the two, I take Fowler over and over. Just a solid top pairing player who is only going to get better the more experience he gets.
btlaffin
Deathbat
- Jun 30, 2013
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They aren't watching anyone. These fans on the east that don't watch Ducks games take a quick glance at his advanced stats and then say he is bad. It's actually pathetic
They aren't watching anyone. These fans on the east that don't watch Ducks games take a quick glance at his advanced stats and then say he is bad. It's actually pathetic
And west coast fans dont do the exact same thing for Nash? If you don't think he can score 30-40 playing with getzlaf...
Sojourn
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I don't think Nash's ability is really the concern here.
It's his contract, and his health.
silverfish
got perma'd
Nash is going to make a lot of people on HF look silly this season [I think/hope]
Fowler isn't good.
Happy that Ducks fans seem mad about this because I'm happy to pass as a Rangers fan
Fowler isn't good.
Happy that Ducks fans seem mad about this because I'm happy to pass as a Rangers fan
Nope, not really. East coast games are still on when a lot of west coast people are still awake. Nash very well could score 30-40 playing with Getzlaf but the value absolutely favors New York going Fowler for Nash straight up. Quality PMD's which is a hole that the Rangers have is going to have more value than an oversized contract with injury concerns...especially when that PMD is 24.
Bingo. Ducks can't really afford it unless they're able to offload someone like Stoner as well or the Rangers retain a good chunk.
Nash is going to make a lot of people on HF look silly this season [I think/hope]
Fowler isn't good.
Happy that Ducks fans seem mad about this because I'm happy to pass as a Rangers fan
Nash isn't going to make anyone look silly. People know how good he is. It's whether he stays healthy and whether he's worth 7.8 million cap dollars and 8 million in actual salary.
And absolute nonsense that Fowler isn't good. Just plain nonsense. Watch him play and watch how he was used under Boudreau. I don't even like the Ducks but I've seen enough of them to know that the Rangers would swap Nash for Fowler every damn day and twice on Sunday if they had the shot.
Could but those are long odds and Fowler will have higher value bringing what he does on the offensive end compared to the type of talent that Skjei is.
Sojourn
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silverfish
got perma'd
Dan Girardi provided more 5v5 offense than Fowler did last season. Fowler is terrible at suppressing shots against. So yeah, he'd be perfect for NYR.
Fowler is a PPQB. Nothing more.
Sojourn
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Again...watch the games. Nobody's 5v5 offense and shot suppression numbers are going to go well playing with Kevin Bieksa.
silverfish
got perma'd
No comment on how Dan Girardi outscores Fowler 5v5? How many games did you watch Nash play this season?
Are you sure? Because Bieksa's shot suppression numbers and shot generation numbers improve away from Fowler.
Sojourn
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I've addressed why they do. It's role based. To elaborate, when Bieksa isn't with Fowler, he isn't put in the same situations. Of course, you wouldn't know that by just looking at those numbers. That would require you to watch the games.
And no. Girardi spent a lot of time with McDonagh and Yandle at ES, both of whom are superior defensemen. I also don't watch him enough to know how he's used, which is something I'm actually willing to say. I have no problem saying I don't have enough information on another team's players to give a proper analysis. You might learn something from that.
That's just as bad. The Ducks can not afford Nash at full price. Unless New York would like to take Stoner and Despres off our hands.
Sojourn
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Yeah, I'm sure. Seen enough of Fowler to know that he's not the problem on that pairing...at all. The time away from Fowler for Bieksa is not likely to be very much but it also likely means that when Bieksa is away from Fowler, he's not in the same spot of breaking out predominantly.
Let's also not forget just how bad the Ducks were for the first 30 or so games offensively. Even after turning it around they still struggled to get 5-on-5 production outside of 4 forwards. Finishing 26th in the league in 5-on-5 scoring while the Rangers were 3rd is the only reason Girardi produced more.
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