Value of: Rangers and Avalanche, Skjei + for picks

[bernmeister]

I personally have no interest in this deal if it is lottery protected. I am in no rush to move Skjei, only for a great deal.

This is also my position.
However, if they wanted to give us something acceptable in order to insulate vs the pick being 1OA, or 1-2OA, or something like that, I would lean to still taking it, again, by definition I said they give us something we consider 'acceptable'.

 

[bernmeister]

Guys and dolls...

real world
til tonight
thanks to all for a great thread.
Want to see if we can get a head count
so far, ballpark seems
def yes
conditional yes dep on some degree [unspecified] of lottery protection
[requiring add from Avs]
def no

will be interesting to see how this turns out...

 

[Patagonia]

thanks for the feedback.
I consider Skjei more than a nice luxury.
the RHD is another side altogether, and I consider EJ mixed bag of +/-s, a bit much for the $, and Barrie, while not a world class skater, is mobile, but I am not seeing much else.
I like your prospects cited, but they are not immediately ready.
While Zadorov & Girard may have their own +s over BS, I don't see either TODAY as a better skater and defensive D.

My conclusion:
If you are a billion percent certain that no question, regardless of what they do/do not do with Karlsson, that Sens will definitely get 1OA, then I see your point.

But percentage wise I expect it to be later, and given that, and the availability of productive LD now vs someone likely 3 years away due to wait and development, both sides should deal.

Don't consider my response as negative.

AVs defense is actually fairly good. The AVs struggles are on the 3rd line, but it's not overly terrible. Adding Skjei on the Top Line will solidify the LHD.

Girard - EJ
Zadorov - Barrie
Nemeth - Barberio

Skjei would fit the AVs LHD needs, but it's not an urgent requirement. Zadorov and Girard are both younger than Skejei and have tremendous potential. RHD is already solid and the strongest DMen prospects are in the system.

Definitely, Skjei would be of interest, but not at the risk of trading the Sens pick.

 

[haveandare]

I hear you but consider...
the point of doing this is to max our LD position as our 4 prospects emerge. But even if they are good enough to fit a 1, 2, 3 profile with one surplus [assuming Hanifin does not come here, I still say he does and is our 1LD until someone takes it away from him].

If you want to add assets for talent elsewhere, you can't trade Rykov, or Lindgren or Day NOW. You don't get full value b'c they are underdeveloped.

If you did move Skjei, now is likely the best time to do it.
Deep draft
And you create roster space/precious minutes for these 4 once ready, or anyone else who shows up and demonstrates he deserves to compete.
I don't give a rat's ass about 2018.
We get lightning in a bottle at training camp, terrif, otherwise, I don't care who our LDs are in the immediate - 2018 - picture. I care about setting ourselves up to catapult going forward.

It's not even the assumption that they'll fit all the spots needed, but there's also an assumption being made that they'll all be serviceable NHL players at all. I think and hope they will but I'm personally not about to move the only young actual NHL d-man we have on that hope. None of them have stepped on NHL ice at all yet, a few of them might not even be NHL players, and neither may be whoever we get with either of those picks. Skjei is 100% an NHL middle pairing player now and may be more. I get the value in taking a risk for later, but this is too much risk imo.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Kudos for a pretty decent trade proposal. I personally wouldn't do it as I'm comfortable with where our defense is at the moment and would rather, if we trade those picks, aim for top 6 forward help.

The Avs currently have 6 picks in top two rounds for the 2018 and 2019 draft. Use one of those on a talented LHD and we should be set on defense for a while

Right Side: Johnson, Barrie, Timmins, Makar, Meloche
Left Side: Zadorov, Girard, 2018/2019 draft pick, Josh Anderson (Avs fans are going to kill me for putting him on this list)

Your left side is missing Nemeth. He's only 26, is still an RFA, and is a decent 3rd pairing D/PKer. I'd like to keep him for another couple of years.

And, I also wouldn't do it. Value really isn't bad in a vacuum, I just don't think Skjei is enough of an upgrade over what we currently have in order to justify the price for the Avs. There are also too many question marks around the rest of the roster to really justify going all in on the D right now (2nd line forwards, goaltending, was this year the new normal for Mack/Rant/Landeskog?).

 

[bernmeister]

Don't consider my response as negative.

AVs defense is actually fairly good. The AVs struggles are on the 3rd line, but it's not overly terrible. Adding Skjei on the Top Line will solidify the LHD.

Girard - EJ
Zadorov - Barrie
Nemeth - Barberio

Skjei would fit the AVs LHD needs, but it's not an urgent requirement. Zadorov and Girard are both younger than Skejei and have tremendous potential. RHD is already solid and the strongest DMen prospects are in the system.

Definitely, Skjei would be of interest, but not at the risk of trading the Sens pick.

thanks, we good and I wuz just trying to get accurate head count
I'll consider this likely no, unless alt compensation is involved.

 

[bernmeister]

It's not even the assumption that they'll fit all the spots needed, but there's also an assumption being made that they'll all be serviceable NHL players at all. I think and hope they will but I'm personally not about to move the only young actual NHL d-man we have on that hope. None of them have stepped on NHL ice at all yet, a few of them might not even be NHL players, and neither may be whoever we get with either of those picks. Skjei is 100% an NHL middle pairing player now and may be more. I get the value in taking a risk for later, but this is too much risk imo.

Fair enuf
we respectfully agree to disagree
IF we get enough, we should take the risk
We need to add lots of horses, and slow and steady will take forever to win this race.

 

[bernmeister]

Your left side is missing Nemeth. He's only 26, is still an RFA, and is a decent 3rd pairing D/PKer. I'd like to keep him for another couple of years.

And, I also wouldn't do it. Value really isn't bad in a vacuum, I just don't think Skjei is enough of an upgrade over what we currently have in order to justify the price for the Avs. There are also too many question marks around the rest of the roster to really justify going all in on the D right now (2nd line forwards, goaltending, was this year the new normal for Mack/Rant/Landeskog?).

Appreciate the acknowledgment on value, and the no vote as to a fit.

 

[Patagonia]

thanks, we good and I wuz just trying to get accurate head count
I'll consider this likely no, unless alt compensation is involved.

Absolutely, the deal with the AVs does fit the need for another LHD position.

Problem is the compensation is higher than they're willing to pay to add another LHD. The 2018 Draft is already heavy on DMen, AVs have 3 picks in the top 2 rounds and could possibly choose a LHD if they continue with BPA.

NYR is better dealing with another team, DMen has become an area of strength for the AVs.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's a bad deal for the Avs.


Ignoring the value(Which is bad), where is Skjei going to play in Colorado. He's well behind Zadorov, and will very soon be behind Girard as well. It's not like either one of those guys are going to be gone anytime soon either.


So we're going to give up the #16 pick in a very deep draft, and a 2019 1st that has a legit chance of being Top 5 next year, for our future 3rd pairing LHD?



Makes no sense at all for the Avs to do. Skjei is not an elite #1D and that's literally the only piece of Defense we need, if we even need that.



And then back to the value. The Avs quite simply are not moving that Ottawa 1st round pick to anybody for anything. The only exception being Ottawa themselves if they're prepared to offer up #4 in the draft this year for it, or if its in a deal for a signed Erik Karlsson.

 

[Freudian]

If Rangers finished 30th this year, do you think they would trade their 2019 1st round pick with a Skjei type defender as the main piece coming back? I think you know the answer.

 

[DRW204]

And not to mention Barrie!

lol forgot Girard.

but i think COL's trade currency is better spent on getting top 6 Fwds rather than D

 

[cgf]

I like Skjei and adding him to Zadorov & Girard would lock down the left side of our D for ages...which would leave us in a great spot with EJ, Barrie, Meloche, Timmins & Makar on the right...but that sens pick is just too big a piece. If we're gunna trade it, we should be trying to leverage it in a package for Stone or as part of a bigger trade for a Draisaitl/Marner type.

Basically, our D is no longer our biggest (or even second biggest) concern, it's another star forward that we need to help Jost take some pressure off the top line. And a varly replacement of the future is next on the list.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Doesnt fit our need and makes the expansion draft difficult. Fair offer but no interest at this time

 

[milehigh11]

[QUOTE="
While Zadorov & Girard may have their own +s over BS, I don't see either TODAY as a better skater and defensive D.
[/QUOTE]


Well Zadorov is barely 23 and Girard is 20. Z has been improving every year since we got him from Buffalo and Girard was impressive at a 19 year old this past season. The potential on these 2 are very high. I would take them over a 24 year old that just put up a -27

 

[cwede]

remove 28OA, and add Toninato and another pick coming to NYR, then this begins to make sense

 

[Patagonia]

Skejei is a decent player, but this involves dealing towards an area of strength with the AVs. So the offer would be significantly lower. So don't feel insulted, the AVs view this player less of a need than the NYR.

This is no different than EJ. AVs consider him invaluable, but would be worth less in a trade than his skills to the team. Maybe if the offer is changed to the following:

Skejei

For

AVs - 2018 (16th-1st))
AVs - 2018 (78th-3rd)

 

[RoyIsALegend]

remove 28OA, and add Toninato and another pick coming to NYR, then this begins to make sense

#16 + 2019 OTT 1st + Toninato + Another pick

For

BS + TB 2nd

*AWFUL.*

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

From an outside perspective, the Avalanche shouldn't move the sens pick for pretty much anything. Skjei is good but he's not a top 3 pick good.

 

[Klaus3154]

From an outside perspective, the Avalanche shouldn't move the sens pick for pretty much anything. Skjei is good but he's not a top 3 pick good.

As a Ranger fan I don’t have much interest in trading Skjei but that Ottawa pick is way too intriguing.
I agree I would hold on to that pick if I were the Avs

 

[CobraAcesS]

It's a bad deal for the Avs.


Ignoring the value(Which is bad), where is Skjei going to play in Colorado. He's well behind Zadorov, and will very soon be behind Girard as well. It's not like either one of those guys are going to be gone anytime soon either.


So we're going to give up the #16 pick in a very deep draft, and a 2019 1st that has a legit chance of being Top 5 next year, for our future 3rd pairing LHD?



Makes no sense at all for the Avs to do. Skjei is not an elite #1D and that's literally the only piece of Defense we need, if we even need that.



And then back to the value. The Avs quite simply are not moving that Ottawa 1st round pick to anybody for anything. The only exception being Ottawa themselves if they're prepared to offer up #4 in the draft this year for it, or if its in a deal for a signed Erik Karlsson.

Not to mention also adding to the pool of young defenders we're already going to have to worry about protecting in expansion.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Not to mention also adding to the pool of young defenders we're already going to have to worry about protecting in expansion.

Yeah, there's really just not much need for the Avs to be adding a good Dman right now unless he's an elite #1D sort.


The exception(At least IMO) is a good 4/5 guy like Hickey or De Haan in Free Agency as I wouldn't be worried about losing someone like that in expansion(And in fact they could be good expansion bait to help us protect someone else).


But not a guy like Skjei who's better then a 4/5 but not a #1 either.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah, there's really just not much need for the Avs to be adding a good Dman right now unless he's an elite #1D sort.


The exception(At least IMO) is a good 4/5 guy like Hickey or De Haan in Free Agency as I wouldn't be worried about losing someone like that in expansion(And in fact they could be good expansion bait to help us protect someone else).


But not a guy like Skjei who's better then a 4/5 but not a #1 either.

Yep, I'd like them to upgrade on Nemeth, but not at the cost of any significant asset.

 

[Machinehead]

The Rangers are certainly open to moving NHL players for picks.

Their 24 y/o defacto #1 D isn't one of them.

 

[WhoTagz]

To be clear, we are talking about the guy who was your #5 D in ice time in the playoffs behind Nick freaking Holden and was on the ice for more goals against than any other Ranger this year.

I like him and he’s a nice player. A 3D or so. Lacks a lot of talent to ever be a franchise cornerstone or anything of that ilk. Let’s be serious.

That's what a bad coach can do to a player , if he is deployed right he can be a #1