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Proposal: Rakell for Byram

Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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Redmond, WA
Ignoring Rakell's 8 team NTC, would this be a fair deal straight up? Byram seems to be on the outs in Buffalo, with his projected contract of 7 years and $7.25 million being way too much for Buffalo to pay with Dahlin and Power also on LD. The Penguins desperately need both current LD help and long-term top-4 D options, so Byram fills a huge need for them. Rakell gives Buffalo another top-6 scorer that's on a pretty cheap deal (3 years left at $5 million).
 
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I like it, but mostly because I cheer for a different team in Buffalo's division.

Realistically, Buffalo was one of the better offensive teams in the NHL this year and have a few good wing prospects/young NHLers, so trading one of their best trade chips for a soon to be 32 year old offense first winger seems like textbook poor asset management.
 
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Chainshot said:
Counter - Quinn and a third for Rackell.
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Lol

Captain Mountain said:
I like it, but mostly because I cheer for a different team in Buffalo's division.

Realistically, Buffalo was one of the better offensive teams in the NHL this year and have a few good wing prospects/young NHLers, so trading one of their best trade chips for a soon to be 32 year old offense first winger seems like textbook poor asset management.
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Buffalo's problem is that they need more NHL proven talent, and I'm really skeptical they'll be getting offered a better player than Rakell for Byram. I think it's more likely that most Byram trade offers will be draft picks, which Buffalo is already flush with already.

I think they can likely get a more valuable return than Rakell straight up, but that return would likely just be draft picks and prospects that they already have a bunch of.
 
Pens are not trading Rakell unless it is for a really good package. Why would the Pens take on that AAV for an Ok LD. Things are different now in that proven scorers are far more valuable especially with a value cap hit. If Rakell is traded, it is for players who fit the team as to upside and not some underperforming LD with a suspect AAV.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Lol



Buffalo's problem is that they need more NHL proven talent, and I'm really skeptical they'll be getting offered a better player than Rakell for Byram. I think it's more likely that most Byram trade offers will be draft picks, which Buffalo is already flush with already.
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Again, I'm game for Buffalo to shoot themselves in the foot, but what they actually need is NHL proven goaltending and two-way play.

I'm also not sure I'd categorize Rakell as NHL proven talent, he's had wild swings year to year in his career.
 
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Captain Mountain said:
Again, I'm game for Buffalo to shoot themselves in the foot, but what they actually need is NHL proven goaltending and two-way play.
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How does trading Byram for Rakell "shoot themselves in the foot" regarding that? The best value they're going to get for Byram is in the form of picks and prospects, which is something they already have a ton of.

Rakell isn't a problem defensively, he's not like Phil Kessel out there, so I'm not really sure how this is hurting themselves defensively. It's also not like Byram's defensive metrics have been all that great in his career so far.

Captain Mountain said:
I'm also not sure I'd categorize Rakell as NHL proven talent, he's had wild swings year to year in his career.
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Literally what.

Rakell has 519 career points and you wouldn't call him a "NHL proven talent"? He's been in the decade for over a decade, he's been a top-6 scorer for basically his entire professional career.
 
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Captain Mountain said:
I like it, but mostly because I cheer for a different team in Buffalo's division.

Realistically, Buffalo was one of the better offensive teams in the NHL this year and have a few good wing prospects/young NHLers, so trading one of their best trade chips for a soon to be 32 year old offense first winger seems like textbook poor asset management.
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I'm not sure that it's fair to say that Rakell is offense-first. I mean, yes, he's not a 2-way winger that you'd put on the PK, but his defense at 5-on-5 is better than many top-line wingers.
 
SEALBound said:
How about:

Byram + Quinn for Rakell + conditional 2026 2nd based on draft positions of the three picks (likely the latest).
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Nah. Rackell at his age seems like a young player and mid-high (non-first) pick in value. I don't see shifting that to Byram and trying to balance with a 2nd as really getting it done. *shrug*

I was initially thinking of just "Rackell for a 2nd" but stuffed Quinn in there instead.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
How does trading Byram for Rakell "shoot themselves in the foot" regarding that? The best value they're going to get for Byram is in the form of picks and prospects, which is something they already have a ton of.

Rakell isn't a problem defensively, he's not like Phil Kessel out there, so I'm not really sure how this is hurting themselves defensively. It's also not like Byram's defensive metrics have been all that great in his career so far.



Literally what.

Rakell has 519 career points and you wouldn't call him a "NHL proven talent"? He's been in the decade for over a decade, he's been a top-6 scorer for basically his entire professional career.
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I suspect they could get a better fit than picks or prospects for a soon to be 24 year old D-man who played over 22 minutes a night. Whether they should is another story, but he's the category of player teams overpay for.

And which Rakell are you going to get? He's obviously an NHL player, but he isn't exactly known for his consistency.
 
Chainshot said:
Nah. Rackell at his age seems like a young player and mid-high (non-first) pick in value. I don't see shifting that to Byram and trying to balance with a 2nd as really getting it done. *shrug*

I was initially thinking of just "Rackell for a 2nd" but stuffed Quinn in there instead.
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You mean the guy that had the asking price of 2 1sts at the deadline would now be acquired for a 2nd?
 
Chainshot said:
Nah. Rackell at his age seems like a young player and mid-high (non-first) pick in value. I don't see shifting that to Byram and trying to balance with a 2nd as really getting it done. *shrug*

I was initially thinking of just "Rackell for a 2nd" but stuffed Quinn in there instead.
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I mean, Dubas was basically asking for 2 1sts for him at the TDL. You're not getting him for a 2nd. That's just a complete misunderstanding of value.

It's fine if you don't want him but at least be realistic with value. I mean, we could use logics surrounding previous trades to bring down Byrams value if we want?

I don't think the age thing is as big of a deal as some might think especially if the goal is to get into the playoffs and over a hump anytime soon.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
You mean the guy that had the asking price of 2 1sts at the deadline would now be acquired for a 2nd?
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Two points - deadline asking price and summer trade returns are rarely the same. We know this, I know you know this as a long-time observer of the NHL. And 2nd no one met that ask when made at the highest return point of the trade year.

So yeah, a 2nd.
 
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Chainshot said:
Two points - deadline asking price and summer trade returns are rarely the same. We know this, I know you know this as a long-time observer of the NHL. And 2nd no one met that ask when made at the highest return point of the trade year.

So yeah, a 2nd.
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Summer trade often return more due increased cap flexibility.

Rakell will have just as much value in summer as the TDL, potentially more as there could very well be additional suitors that couldn't afford him at the TDL.

But since want to be like that on value:

Byram for Mittelstadt,
Mittlestadt+2nd for Coyle+5th,
Coyle is 33yo and producing significantly less than Rakell,
Thus, Byram+2nd+Quinn for Rakell+5th would be about right.
 
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Chainshot said:
Two points - deadline asking price and summer trade returns are rarely the same. We know this, I know you know this as a long-time observer of the NHL. And 2nd no one met that ask when made at the highest return point of the trade year.

So yeah, a 2nd.
Click to expand...

There is really no reasonable discussion to be had here if you think a 2nd for Rakell is even in the slightest bit reasonable.
 
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Chainshot said:
My original offer was Quinn and a 3rd. But okay.
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The same exact comment applies. There is no reasonable discussion to be had here if you think that's even in the stratosphere of reasonable.

Rakell just had a 35 goal, 70 point season. Even if we fully admit that isn't sustainable and he's more likely a 25 goal, 55 point guy, when has something like Quinn and a 3rd pulled off a guy in Rakell's situation?

I don't think there is any chance Rakell pulls off 2 1sts, but to go from that to a 2nd or Quinn and a 3rd is insane. Anthony Beauvillier just went for a 2nd as a rental.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The same exact comment applies. There is no reasonable discussion to be had here if you think that's even in the stratosphere of reasonable.

Rakell just had a 35 goal, 70 point season. Even if we fully admit that isn't sustainable and he's more likely a 25 goal, 55 point guy, when has something like Quinn and a 3rd pulled off a guy in Rakell's situation?
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And Rackell is going to be 32 in a what, a week? How many guys have a peak year in their 30's and have that be what they can repeat going forward? He's a nice player, I would think Buffalo should be interested, but I don't see how that makes him anywhere near what the Dubas deadline ask is. I mean I know Quinn's production which looks kinda similar to Rackell's in Pittsburgh outside of what looks like a surprise fluke year. 8 years younger, more years of team control, could have significantly more upside if now fully healthy from two severe injuries. Anyway, nice chatting with you.
 
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OtherThingsILike said:
This is the same forum who told us that expecting a 2nd + a B prospect for Marcus Pettersson was too much.
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Since that wasn't me, I won't be taking the flak for that. I happen to think MP is one of the best defensive defensemen in the entire league and would've happily seen Buffalo fork over volumes for him because they need a play killer of his ilk.
 
Chainshot said:
Since that wasn't me, I won't be taking the flak for that. I happen to think MP is one of the best defensive defensemen in the entire league and would've happily seen Buffalo fork over volumes for him because they need a play killer of his ilk.
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Fair enough.
But then what you're suggesting here is that Rakell would have less value than Pettersson would.
 
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