OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: New season of plundering begins

[sovietsanta87]

There's a lot of stuff to be thrown around about this team, but I'm just still completely flabbergast that Shelton left Nicolas out there for as long as he did. I think it was stupid to put him in to begin with, but how could Shelton justify leaving him in for a hit batter followed by 3 walks without getting a strike?

Who knows if Fleming would have gotten out of it had he come in a batter or two earlier, but it's so frustrating to see Shelton in love with these dogshit hard throwing relievers that can't hit the strike zone at all.



It takes a special brand of stupidity for me to really blow up on this team. Shelton liking guys like Nicolas and Selby is one of those things.

Those guys with like 30 rated control shouldn't be in any MLB caliber bullpen.

was it Chris Vieaux’s career he ruined because he left him out there for like a 50 pitch inning?

 

[Empoleon8771]

was it Chris Vieaux’s career he ruined because he left him out there for like a 50 pitch inning?

Yeah he threw 56 pitches and gave up 8 runs in 1 inning back in 2022. He's a glowing example of those kind of shit pitchers Shelton loves. Luis Oviedo from 2021 is another example of that too.

 

[since70]

Wonder if Skenes asked for a trade yet?

 

[ChaosAgent]

It takes a special brand of stupidity for me to really blow up on this team. Shelton liking guys like Nicolas and Selby is one of those things.

Those guys with like 30 rated control shouldn't be in any MLB caliber bullpen.

It's Ben Cherington. It's the 5th inning and we need to get through a game. Who else? Ortiz I guess.

But Cherington is responsible for the construction of the team and the jabronis assigned to the task.

Nepo baby Nutting can bank his $40M this year, and analytics charlatan Cherington can collect his last paycheck. God knows this long-winded clown won't be going on TV after this.

 

[ChaosAgent]

My God they've even lost Empoleon. It really is bad.

Well ya see there are 120 games left.

 

[since70]

This is just another in a long list of stupidity that should get you fired, since this organization doesn't believe in accountability Shelton has a job for life.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

This team is bad and they should feel bad for being bad.

 

[TNT87]

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Meh.

Skenes looked like that today.

I agree. His commands was pretty touch and go, and I don't think it was all due to nerves. Just a bit of an off day for him.

I don't want to overhype him, but I do think that what we saw today was the bad version of Skenes. Had some bad misses, walks, HBP, and also allowed hard contact. And then only gave up 1 run while still piling up 7 Ks.

Hard to say what might have happened if he was fully up to 90+ pitches and allowed to clean up his own mess in the 5th. I don't think there's a big chance of this, but it is still possible that he'll have to make more adjustments as he gets situated at the MLB level, similar to what we saw with Grayson Rodriguez last year.

Still, all told, I'm pretty encouraged by that being the first game nerves / meh / off command day version of Skenes. I didn't catch yesterday's game very closely but Jones was also a bit off and still held down the fort. The foundation is there now, I just wish we had someone who wasn't an all-time loser at the MLB level running the ship in Cherington.

 

[ChaosAgent]

This is just another in a long list of stupidity that should get you fired, since this organization doesn't believe in accountability Shelton has a job for life.

Where I will 100% blame Shelton is the psychological weakness of the team.
If a manager and his staff are supposed to do anything it's manage the team's psychology. Last May-June was a complete and embarrassing mental implosion. I vividly remember the Roansy game in Chicago that effectively ended the season, after Bido did decent work and Suwinski hit a couple bombs. Now it's this game. It was Chapman against Sanchez 2 weeks ago. It's Tellez in general. It's Suwinski in general. It's Henry Davis. It's Reynolds, who I am inclined to trade. Guy is a total failure in the clutch.

I don't blame Shelton for playing the dogshit players Cherington gave him. But I do blame him for letting the team fall into doom loops time and time and time again.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The foundation is there now, I just wish we had someone who wasn't an all-time loser at the MLB level running the ship in Cherington.

IDK, if either Jones or Skenes has arm troubles the foundation crumbles.

The task in this next off-season is to find a GM and hitting philosophy that can turn around Davis, Endy, and Hayes. And I guess Termarr Johnson. Because we have nothing otherwise. Look at the lineups in Indy through Greensboro. Unbelievably Cherington's system in 2024 is weaker than Huntington's in 2019, once you subtract Skenes.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Get absolutely ****ed Shelton.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Cherington has done a terrific job at building up the P prospect pool in his time here, both of the Pirates aces of the future in Jones and Skenes were Cherington picks and they have numerous other good pitching options that he has acquired or drafted. However, the bats have simply been neglected where Cherington has acquired very little bats to actually help out the major league team. Beyond Suwinski, who has his own issues, what exactly is there that Cherington has added?

The team is simply going to have to sacrifice some of their SP depth to improve the bats. If they're not willing to do that, nothing is going to change with the team. They have their top of the rotation for the next 5+ years set up with Skenes, Jones and Keller, but they simply need to help out the bats. Reynolds, Cruz and Hayes simply isn't enough and the development of their top hitting prospects (notably Endy, Gonzales, Peguero and Davis) has been a huge problem. I think Cruz is borderline in his development being a problem too, he's still a good player but he doesn't look like he'll end up close to the sky high upside his physical tools suggest.

To me, the Pirates have Cruz (leadoff hitter, SS), Reynolds (#3 hitter, LF/DH) and Hayes (#6 hitter, 3B) sorted out. I also figure Endy's defense will make him a sufficient starting C as well, with where he falls in the batting order dependent on how well he hits. Beyond that? It's really not encouraging. They have glaring holes long term at 1B, CF and RF that Cherington seems intent on doing nothing about. The dumpster diving every year for 1Bs just shows that.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I think Cherington has done a terrific job at building up the P prospect pool in his time here, both of the Pirates aces of the future in Jones and Skenes were Cherington picks and they have numerous other good pitching options that he has acquired or drafted. However, the bats have simply been neglected where Cherington has acquired very little bats to actually help out the major league team. Beyond Suwinski, who has his own issues, what exactly is there that Cherington has added?

The team is simply going to have to sacrifice some of their SP depth to improve the bats. If they're not willing to do that, nothing is going to change with the team. They have their top of the rotation for the next 5+ years set up with Skenes, Jones and Keller, but they simply need to help out the bats. Reynolds, Cruz and Hayes simply isn't enough and the development of their top hitting prospects (notably Endy, Gonzales, Peguero and Davis) has been a huge problem. I think Cruz is borderline in his development being a problem too, he's still a good player but he doesn't look like he'll end up close to the sky high upside his physical tools suggest.

To me, the Pirates have Cruz (leadoff hitter, SS), Reynolds (#3 hitter, LF/DH) and Hayes (#6 hitter, 3B) sorted out. I also figure Endy's defense will make him a sufficient starting C as well, with where he falls in the batting order dependent on how well he hits. Beyond that? It's really not encouraging.

Now wait a minute. They have a ton of slap hitting middle infielders. As soon as they add a rover position we’ll be in business

 

[Jacob]

wrong thread

 

[sovietsanta87]

Other than making sure there aren’t enough burgers to buns,what has Travis Williams brought to the team?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Now wait a minute. They have a ton of slap hitting middle infielders. As soon as they add a rover position we’ll be in business

Honestly the biggest criticism I have of Cherington’s player evaluation is that they’ve added so many middle infields yet still have a huge hole at 2B. You’d think that he’d at least hit on one of the dozen+ guys he has traded for or drafted, but nope.

 

[ChaosAgent]

To me, the Pirates have Cruz (leadoff hitter, SS), Reynolds (#3 hitter, LF/DH) and Hayes (#6 hitter, 3B) sorted out. I also figure Endy's defense will make him a sufficient starting C as well, with where he falls in the batting order dependent on how well he hits. Beyond that? It's really not encouraging. They have glaring holes long term at 1B, CF and RF that Cherington seems intent on doing nothing about. The dumpster diving every year for 1Bs just shows that.

https://www.milb.com/gameday/patriots-vs-curve/2024/05/11/751284/final/box

This is the lineup the Pirates are fielding in AA in Year 5 of a "Tank to your heart's content" regime.
Everyone agrees that Nutting is a cancer. But Cherington is a bottom-5 GM/POBO in the game. Most would have done much better with unlimited license to tank for 4 years.

Last time this guy had resources, he wasted it on Hanley Ramirez, Pablo Sandoval and Rusney Castillo.
He simply is not a good evaluator of players or coaches, and if David Ortiz didn't go on an all-time heater in 2013 his legacy would be one of the worst GMs this sport has seen. His 44% all-time winning percentage is on par with Dave Littlefield's.

Batters - ALT	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	K	AVG	OPS
Glenn1B	3	0	0	0	0	0	.198	.622
Perez, JRF	3	1	2	0	0	1	.276	.785
Peterson, DuLF	3	0	0	1	0	0	.182	.455
BinsC	2	1	1	1	1	1	.500	2.667
BeerDH	3	0	1	0	0	1	.289	.761
Dixon, B3B	3	1	0	0	0	0	.150	.486
Gonzalez, TCF	1	0	0	0	0	1	.215	.553
PichardoSS	2	0	1	0	0	1	.205	.551
Acuna2B	1	0	0	1	1	0	.333	.933
Totals	21	3	5	3	2	5

 

[BusinessGoose]

Welcome to the Pirates, Skenes

Doesn't matter how you do, the team will f*** it all up

 

[td_ice]

Haven't been able to watch at all, just got home. But considering the box, and the posts above, I'll do what I do when Jones is pitching, (from DVR). And that's just watch Jones/Skenes pitch, and nothing else. Just Fast Forward through the rest of the crap. That's about all I will do going forward, and rest of the season, unless something changes from this Sh*t show of an organization.

 

[metalan2]

Just saw the Pirates threw 16 balls in a row with the bases loaded. That has to be the most pathetic baseball stat I've ever seen.

 

[metalan2]

This is special.

Skenes leaves with a 6-1 lead and the cubs score 7 runs in an inning by getting one infield single.

1 hit batsman 6 walks.

We will never see that again. Unless the Pirates do it.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Lol

 

[WickedWrister]

LOL!!!!!!!!

 

[ChaosAgent]

(Shelton doesn't use leverage relievers up 6-1 in the 5th inning)

"omg Shelton ruiner of talent babysitter so clueless"

(Shelton uses leverage relievers tied 6-6 in 5th inning, reliever bombs)

"no not like that!"