It amazes me that guys who played 50 years ago and didn't have access to today's technology and training regimens expected to see their name in lineup every day, and I'm talking about the days of artificial turf, which having played on it wrecked your legs and hips, and the players today are in a lot better physical condition overall.
OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: New season of plundering begins
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BusinessGoose
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There's only one possible reason...
Those guys would probably get steamrolled by a AAA team nowadays, though
The floor of all-out performance is a lot higher every night
Like, no training, cig smoking Mario would get dummied in today's NHL.
GilbertSeinfeld
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The Pirates traded the recently DFA'd Jose Hernandez to the Dodgers for Nutting's favorite acquisition; cash.
MrBrightside
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Not using Cutch, Joe, or Gonzales in the 9th inning of a one-run game to let Grandal and Taylor hit is comically bad. It’s just not a serious organization. I get that DJ tells us that no game matters and we shouldn’t complain about any loss or whatever, and it’s exactly that mindset the organization has. Nothing matters to them so why should it to us.
Rave7215
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No single game matters. Constantly pulling shit like this adds up. Shelton just isn't a serious major league manager. If this is an organizational directive, then BC is also not a serious GM. This shit is comical at this point
MrBrightside
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It's just totally unserious organization. The Cardinals played essentially their regular lineup yesterday while we sit 3 of our best hitters, even in a situation in the 9th that SCREAMED for them to get a plate appearance. It does all add up, and while DJ is a top notch poster with whom I agree much more often than not, continually giving free passes to these kinds of decisions on the basis that "it's a long season" is beyond frustrating to me. In the past 4 games, they've lost 2 of them that you can attribute, at least in part, to being far too unworried about the game in front of them. If we're not trying to make the playoffs in 2024, fine. But let's stop talking on one hand about trade targets to bolster the lineup while ignoring managerial/management decisions that cost them games on the other.
DJ Spinoza
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I don't think anything I said yesterday gives a free pass to anyone. Shelton should have used better bats to pinch hit at an absolute minimum, but I think the core problems go beyond Shelton.
You could feasibly want them to pinch hit for 2/3rds of the lineup that started yesterday. I would also wager that the decisions to rest players like Gonzales (even though there was an off day on Monday and there will be another one on Thursday) are organizational and not purely Shelton's prerogative (though that doesn't get him off the hook I think he's pretty well-integrated into the whole show).
This is a team that was built to be frustrating. When you fumble the offseason so badly, this is what you get. I think the best case scenario is that it's still going to be a frustrating slog along with 5-7 other NL teams and we'll be in about the same boat of spitting distance to one of the open wild card spots in 6 weeks when the trade deadline comes.
The road trip and entire stretch of recent games will be settled in Colorado. If they can beat up on a worse team and get the sweep, then it will be a fine 8-4 run and some momentum heading to an important stretch where we play the Reds 6 times in 10 days. Win the series and it's still 7-3, which works despite frustrating losses like yesterday and Wednesday. The Rockies have enough bats to win against mediocre teams, and we're running a bullpen game tonight and a who knows what game on Sunday with Skenes pushed to next Monday. That makes a series loss or even a losing series sweep totally in the cards.
You could feasibly want them to pinch hit for 2/3rds of the lineup that started yesterday. I would also wager that the decisions to rest players like Gonzales (even though there was an off day on Monday and there will be another one on Thursday) are organizational and not purely Shelton's prerogative (though that doesn't get him off the hook I think he's pretty well-integrated into the whole show).
This is a team that was built to be frustrating. When you fumble the offseason so badly, this is what you get. I think the best case scenario is that it's still going to be a frustrating slog along with 5-7 other NL teams and we'll be in about the same boat of spitting distance to one of the open wild card spots in 6 weeks when the trade deadline comes.
The road trip and entire stretch of recent games will be settled in Colorado. If they can beat up on a worse team and get the sweep, then it will be a fine 8-4 run and some momentum heading to an important stretch where we play the Reds 6 times in 10 days. Win the series and it's still 7-3, which works despite frustrating losses like yesterday and Wednesday. The Rockies have enough bats to win against mediocre teams, and we're running a bullpen game tonight and a who knows what game on Sunday with Skenes pushed to next Monday. That makes a series loss or even a losing series sweep totally in the cards.
ChaosAgent
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Bottom line is the bats are back on the struggle bus. A lot of this is Hayes being mediocre and Suwinski busting again. Plus Joe has crashed back to Earth. If you are only scoring 3-4 runs a game you don't have any comfortable wins.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
The problem is Nutting but that's a dead horse under 50 miles of shit.
Put Shelton next to John Russell and there isn't much difference. Except Shelton seemingly has an endless rope. I think that's a byproduct of one of two things. Either Cherington is scared to pull that lever because he'd then also be under a microscope. Or B, he's under orders from his superiors to purposely build a mediocre placeholder until the team is sold.
I believe the players are in the system to build a winner. The problem is everything else around them is built to be mediocre at best. One in a blue moon they overachieve (Cutch's prime) but more often that not it's a losing product, in large part because it's designed to be just that.
If this was a serious org. we'd have serious people running it.
Enjoy the few good players we have an expect losing baseball more often that not. It'll make the outcomes easier to handle.
Put Shelton next to John Russell and there isn't much difference. Except Shelton seemingly has an endless rope. I think that's a byproduct of one of two things. Either Cherington is scared to pull that lever because he'd then also be under a microscope. Or B, he's under orders from his superiors to purposely build a mediocre placeholder until the team is sold.
I believe the players are in the system to build a winner. The problem is everything else around them is built to be mediocre at best. One in a blue moon they overachieve (Cutch's prime) but more often that not it's a losing product, in large part because it's designed to be just that.
If this was a serious org. we'd have serious people running it.
Enjoy the few good players we have an expect losing baseball more often that not. It'll make the outcomes easier to handle.
Yea and there were over 10 games blowing in this same fashion this season. At least half of them should have been easy wins.
Was chastised for saying Hayes was broken because of this chronic back issue, that they literally said is unsolvable and only hurts when he swings. Yea, he's not gonna breakout this year. He's not an issue and is still one of our better hitters, but a guy like him should be a huge piece. Instead he's meh.
DJ Spinoza
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Stratton to the IL, Cruz late scratch for the ankle. Two things that do not bode well at all.
WickedWrister
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Hope Cruz's isn't serious and that it's just soreness as they indicated in the injury report. I didn't notice him get injured in the last game, so maybe something in warm up?
Nice to see Reynolds hit a HR but could've gotten more that inning.
WickedWrister
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Empoleon8771
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GilbertSeinfeld
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I said the same thing about Ortiz.
He's gone five, only one run.
Is there a mental block that he can't start so he has to pitch from the second inning?
DJ Spinoza
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I kind of think if it ain't broke, don't fix it with Ortiz. He's seemed pretty comfortable in the long-man role, and the early results with the opener attached to him have been basically as good as you could want. Mlodzinski seems fine to get somewhere between 3 and 6 outs, and if Ortiz pilots through the 6th inning efficiently, it's an ideal situation.
If Perez is back and healthy for Sunday's start, that would be pretty huge. I think you can squeeze this bullpen game in with a rotation of Keller - Skenes - Jones - Perez - Falter (in whatever order), as it's something that will keep Skenes and Jones fresher, and if you are put in the position to win the game, why not?
If Perez is back and healthy for Sunday's start, that would be pretty huge. I think you can squeeze this bullpen game in with a rotation of Keller - Skenes - Jones - Perez - Falter (in whatever order), as it's something that will keep Skenes and Jones fresher, and if you are put in the position to win the game, why not?
Empoleon8771
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Good lord that strike 3 call to end the 8th was horrendous 
Yeah when I said that, I didn't mean they should change his role and try to move him somewhere else. I'm pretty fine with a "bullpen" game with someone opening for him and then him going 5 or so innings. I think the difference between him being a starter and him being a 5 inning reliever after an opener is insignificant.
Yeah when I said that, I didn't mean they should change his role and try to move him somewhere else. I'm pretty fine with a "bullpen" game with someone opening for him and then him going 5 or so innings. I think the difference between him being a starter and him being a 5 inning reliever after an opener is insignificant.
WickedWrister
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Empoleon8771
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Raise it! Nice win. They really should be racking off a series sweep against the Rockies here, they really seem like a really bad team.
Empoleon8771
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It's going to be an insanely sad day when McCutchen retires from this team. You can't help but just smile any time you listen to him in an interview.
DJ Spinoza
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I guess one potentially tricky thing is that if Stratton is out for a long time/the season, then in theory Mlodzinski would really need to be counted on as that fireman/6th inning guy, but that's probably too in the weeds to worry about right now.Good lord that strike 3 call to end the 8th was horrendous
Yeah when I said that, I didn't mean they should change his role and try to move him somewhere else. I'm pretty fine with a "bullpen" game with someone opening for him and then him going 5 or so innings. I think the difference between him being a starter and him being a 5 inning reliever after an opener is insignificant.
The other early thought I have is that it might make sense to start looking towards Ashcraft as a 5th/6th starter over Priester. I forget where I saw this, maybe one of the main Pirates twitter accounts, but seeing if Priester's stuff would play up in shorter stints might be worth looking into with Stratton on the shelf, and Ashcraft looks like someone who has emerged to the top of the depth chart for the next guy up in the rotation.
ChaosAgent
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I'm completely fine with plausible deniability in sending Davis back to AAA when Bart is available. This makes it simpler.
I like Luis Ortiz, I like his stuff. I don't know if Bullpen Game Bulk Guy (BGBG) is an acronym but it's made for him.
DJ Spinoza
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It's also nice to win another series opener. It's always been a good old school truism that this sets you up to have a great chance to win the series, especially on the road.
I was curious so I went back and checked, and we have been doing it consistently since mid-June: 8 out of the last 9 3-4 game series, if you skip the two-gamer vs. the Tigers. The only series where we didn't do it was against the Jays -- and if you want to get way ahead of yourself, we'll have Skenes lined up for the next one on Monday.
Separately from that, the bar is definitely to secure this series W with Jones on the mound tomorrow. Hopefully Cruz is ready to get back in the action, though maybe we'll hold off another day with the LHP on the mound in Blach.
I was curious so I went back and checked, and we have been doing it consistently since mid-June: 8 out of the last 9 3-4 game series, if you skip the two-gamer vs. the Tigers. The only series where we didn't do it was against the Jays -- and if you want to get way ahead of yourself, we'll have Skenes lined up for the next one on Monday.
Separately from that, the bar is definitely to secure this series W with Jones on the mound tomorrow. Hopefully Cruz is ready to get back in the action, though maybe we'll hold off another day with the LHP on the mound in Blach.
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