OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

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Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Eh is it though? These mid level prospects are fungible pieces to be thrown around. The Pirates system is pretty bad once you get past the first 4 guys.

For what Thomas is, absolutely yes it is an overpayment. I don't think Thomas is a bad player at all, but that kind of prospect haul for a pretty average player at a non-premium position is pretty crazy. You should be getting better than Thomas if you're using those kind of assets.

And if you want to go by Baseball Trade Value, it says basically the same thing:

 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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I was pretty so-so on Thomas. If the power doesn't come back, he's just kind of a nice platoon player.

We're not in the best situation because ownership and management failed to get things up to snuff over both of the previous winters. I'm just gonna wait and see how the rest of the deadline plays out. I actually wouldn't be shocked if we ended up with Ward... I don't think a ton of teams are really going to be in on him.
 

ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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For what Thomas is, absolutely yes it is an overpayment. I don't think Thomas is a bad player at all, but that kind of prospect haul for a pretty average player at a non-premium position is pretty crazy. You should be getting better than Thomas if you're using those kind of assets.

I guess I like at our farm system and only like 8 guys are even on my radar in terms of value. None of their equivalents were moved in this deal
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Honestly, the main outcome of that Lane Thomas trade is me wondering what the Pirates could get for Connor Joe if they decided to move him.

Also makes me worried about what Yaz would cost, but I think that's a dream anyway.
 

MrBrightside

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May 5, 2010
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Thomas was not a difference maker so whatever but the team acquiring guys at the deadline seldom "win" the trade. That's the biggest issue we have - we have a GM determined to win trades while operating in a seller's market and it's leading to paralysis.
 
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TimmyD

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Nov 11, 2013
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Are you seriously mad that the Pirates didn't pay this price? I would have liked Thomas if he was cheap, but 3 prospects (and one top-10 prospect) for him is craziness.

The equivalent package to what the Guardians gave up is Solometo, Blanco Jr and Peguero. That's an absolutely insane overpayment from Cleveland.
That’s what happens when you wait until the last minute… you pay more… also yes. I would have done that. I would have done that in a heartbeat. I believe this team could make a legit run THIS season if they got some offensive help. I don’t care about 2027 or whenever those guys will actually start contributing (if they even pan out to begin with). Obviously the team doesn’t feel that way. They only made a trade today because of an injury. They were 1,000% going to stand pat if Gonzales didn’t get hurt… and that’s an absolute joke.
 

Empoleon8771

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That’s what happens when you wait until the last minute… you pay more… also yes. I would have done that. I would have done that in a heartbeat. I believe this team could make a legit run THIS season if they got some offensive help. I don’t care about 2027 or whenever those guys will actually start contributing (if they even pan out to begin with). Obviously the team doesn’t feel that way. They only made a trade today because of an injury. They were 1,000% going to stand pat if Gonzales didn’t get hurt… and that’s an absolute joke.

This team is miles away from being able to make a legit run this year. They have literally 3 reliable hitters between Cruz, Reynolds and Tellez, and it's impossible to say how long this Tellez run is going to last.

This team is about 4 bats away from actually being a team ready to go on a run (between both external acquisitions and internal guys fixing their shit), and Gonzales getting hurt arguably makes that 5 bats.
 

ChaosAgent

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2 years ago we acquired Malcom Nunez in the Quintana deal. The Cards 7-10th best prospect or whatever.

Now he hasn't crashed out but he's absolutely irrelevant as far as future plans go. As is everyone in this farm system outside of like 6 guys. Will 2-3 of them become good big leagers anyway? Yes most likely. But I'm not longer afraid of the smorgasbord of 8-20 ranked prospects going the other way.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Redmond, WA
2 years ago we acquired Malcom Nunez in the Quintana deal. The Cards 7-10th best prospect or whatever.

Now he hasn't crashed out but he's absolutely irrelevant as far as future plans go. As is everyone in this farm system outside of like 6 guys. Will 2-3 of them become good big leagers anyway? Yes most likely. But I'm not longer afraid of the smorgasbord of 8-20 ranked prospects going the other way.

It's not about being unwilling to trade those guys, it's that you should be doing better than Lane Thomas if you're putting together a package of those kind of guys.

If the Pirates made that kind of deal for Yastrzemski, I'd be a bit perplexed about the price but it would be worth it with his ability IMO. But Thomas? He's arguably only a platoon guy to begin with.

I had mentioned Thomas as a target because I assumed he'd be cheap to acquire.
 

TimmyD

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This team is miles away from being able to make a legit run this year. They have literally 3 reliable hitters between Cruz, Reynolds and Tellez, and it's impossible to say how long this Tellez run is going to last.

This team is about 4 bats away from actually being a team ready to go on a run (between both external acquisitions and internal guys fixing their shit), and Gonzales getting hurt arguably makes that 5 bats.
The Gonzales injury definitely hurt. But had they acquired a couple bats already, they would be in a better spot to handle something like that. But again that was never really the plan… which is a total joke. This team absolutely has the top end pitching to make a run to the NLCS. They just needed a boost to the offense.

2 years ago we acquired Malcom Nunez in the Quintana deal. The Cards 7-10th best prospect or whatever.

Now he hasn't crashed out but he's absolutely irrelevant as far as future plans go. As is everyone in this farm system outside of like 6 guys. Will 2-3 of them become good big leagers anyway? Yes most likely. But I'm not longer afraid of the smorgasbord of 8-20 ranked prospects going the other way.
Even if those guys pan out, who cares? Who’s to say they would do that here. Give me the chance at making a playoff run now over hoarding guys hoping they help us make a run in 3 years
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Winker is the player so far that sticks in my craw. He was traded for a flier up down/RP type prospect, who we have a million of in the system. He makes no money and while he's not a solution after the season, he would definitely have decent impact as a rental.

I think you can nitpick some of the guys on the market like Thomas. He could help, even at the level he's been playing at this year, but if he regressed further, he'd be pretty similar to the pile of "not good enough" that we have now. In a vacuum I like his speed upside and for the power to maybe come back a bit, and I like him more than Ward as a player, but if Ward ends up being a decent bit cheaper, I'd rather see that.

There's no defending BC's inaction, but I don't think it makes sense to say it's because he hasn't acted yet. The deadline always comes down to the wire like this. If he does absolutely nothing else other than sell of Chapman, then the inaction critiques will be spot on. I also don't think the Priester/Yorke trade adds up to a framework of being rushed or some backup... it's pretty classically a low key, equivalent talent need for need type deal. If anything it looks pretty good if you trust that Yorke will keep hitting the ball hard and translate his game to MLB (though the big bad caveat for me is that it seems like he doesn't loft the ball as much as would be helpful... not exactly a problem the Pirates have been able to fix).
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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This has got to be some kind of world record for the whole thing coming completely apart at the seams. Even the bad players who are worse than the previous bad players are going down.

Topping it all off is this abysmal performance from the bats. They let two relievers cover 6 innings. At least Grandal just sent a HR out so we won't get no hit.

Pack it up. I hope we get something decent for Chapman.
 
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