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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

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Definitely an important 4 days leading up to the trade deadline. The mounting frustration in the city among Pirates fans, on this board and on sports talk radio is palpable. A pivotal moment in GMBC's tenure for sure.

Let's see what he comes up with. I know on Tuesday at 5pm or before, gonna be a lot of happy, screaming mad, or very underwhelmed Pirates fans. Which category of emotion? I dunno. But gonna be interesting to say the least.
 
DJ Spinoza said:
It's still a question of weathering the next two, two and a half weeks. Even if we drop back to 3-4 games out of the WC race, that's a completely live heat.

I think the prospects we shouldn't trade are Chandler and Johnson. Otherwise, improve the team. We shouldn't do something stupid like trade Harrington for a rental or an alright player with some control (like Lane Thomas, who I do like for a cheaper cost), but it's a thin margin, we are right there, and we have the hardest thing to have - pitching.

Last night sucked, but we've seen bad losses so many times. It's up to the team to find a way to scratch out an ugly game this weekend and salvage the series. Let's hope we get "give up a million home runs" Pfaaft and not "flirt with 10 Ks" Pfaadt.
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Just heard Pirates beat writer (I think it was Destin), and he said exactly that. With "maybe" Ashcraft.

His 3 trade targets in the realm of decent possibility were, Thomas, Winker and Pham.
 
What I'm sick of is all these headlines like this:

CARDINALS METS make Huge blockbuster trade in OF,


according to a possible prediction



Or Former All-Star starter bolsters Orioles bid in mega trade... Proposal


Every damn headline is a clickbait right now with wording at the front like something happening then it pivots at the end to potentially

Screenshot_20240727_113457_Chrome.jpg
 
I'd be extremely frustrated if they only added some cheap pending UFA like Pham. I've supported bringing in Winker, but that's a secondary move to adding Chisholm to play CF.

Just find a way to get Chisholm or another multi year CF. They have no one in the system that will fill the CF role, they have to go outside of the organization to get it.
 
Also Fangraphs came out with their updated post-draft rankings. Chandler is now a 55 FV prospect and ranked 24th while Johnson is still 50 FV and ranked 59th. No other Pirates are in the top-100.

Griffin (#9 overall pick) is ranked their 3rd best prospect with a 45+ FV. The Pirates have 9 45 or 45+ FV prospects, their 2nd rounder Sanford is also a 45 FV.
 
What really burns me about the Pirates doing nothing is that they could improve the offense without needing to trade for a big time bat. The bats we have are so bad that even a mediocre hitter would improve this lineup, and that might be all it would take to turn a few of these close losses into close wins. But Cherington et al do not want to do anything and are just hoping the team falls flat so they don't have to. They pretend that they are playing for next year, but next year they will do the same. It is always about competing in the mythical future with these losers. Just no urgency at all even though the starting pitching is playoff worthy and could make some real noise if we made it there.
 
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TooManyHumans said:
What really burns me about the Pirates doing nothing is that they could improve the offense without needing to trade for a big time bat. The bats we have are so bad that even a mediocre hitter would improve this lineup, and that might be all it would take to turn a few of these close losses into close wins. But Cherington et al do not want to do anything and are just hoping the team falls flat so they don't have to. They pretend that they are playing for next year, but next year they will do the same. It is always about competing in the mythical future with these losers. Just no urgency at all even though the starting pitching is playoff worthy and could make some real noise if we made it there.
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The deadline has literally not even passed yet, why are you saying the Pirates are going to do nothing?
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The deadline has literally not even passed yet, why are you saying the Pirates are going to do nothing?
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Because they haven't so far (you don't have to wait until the last second to make a deal and it helps more the earlier you get a guy) and have shown absolutely no indication that they will. DK reports almost daily on his daily shots podcast that they do not believe in this team and are still focused on next year. If they were serious about this year's team then they would have done something to improve it by now. The longer they wait the fewer guys that will be available. They already missed the chance at Arozarena. Maybe they'll throw some nobodies at an expiring contract guy. It would be at least something. I'm not holding my breath though. I think they really wanted the team to fall out of it so they could move guys like Chapman.
 
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The pool is gonna start drying. There's still a chance we can keep making noise in the standings, but if we're status quo that's gonna take some wind out of the sails of the fans and maybe the team.

Long 72 hours ahead.
 
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Waiting to see the full package of players before totally reacting, but BA really seems to like Ramirez. They have a 50 grade on him, but his numbers look pedestrian in AAA. Still, from the profile and grade, it doesn't seem like a reach that Davis would have been comparable.

This doesn't bode well and it barely needs emphasized that other teams are jumping early while we are floundering without the small margin that makes our offense ok on some nights (though we are still in games).

Mullins is basically the only player out there who can play centerfield and hit somewhere in the ballpark of league average. If I had to guess right now we'll trade a starter for literally whatever prospects and we'll pick up a nothing rental bat, who is still better than 4 or 5 of the guys starting tonight at the plate.
 
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TooManyHumans said:
Because they haven't so far (you don't have to wait until the last second to make a deal and it helps more the earlier you get a guy) and have shown absolutely no indication that they will. DK reports almost daily on his daily shots podcast that they do not believe in this team and are still focused on next year. If they were serious about this year's team then they would have done something to improve it by now. The longer they wait the fewer guys that will be available. They already missed the chance at Arozarena. Maybe they'll throw some nobodies at an expiring contract guy. It would be at least something. I'm not holding my breath though. I think they really wanted the team to fall out of it so they could move guys like Chapman.
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Based on what have they made "no indication" that they'll make a move? Every rumor has said the same exact thing: they want to add 1 or 2 bats. Every comment from the team has been the same, it's about them wanting to add offense.

TimmyD said:
My guess is that it’s because the writing is so clearly on the wall that they aren’t going to do anything.
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"Writing on the wall", as in "I'm making up my own agenda to complain about".

Every indication so far has been that the Pirates want to improve their offense and add 1 or 2 bats. Literally every report about their deadline plans suggests that this is what they're trying to do.
 
Hard to evaluate just based on Ramirez but prospect people seem to like him a lot. Still, he looks like all bat over everything. Questions about how much he'll hit breaking stuff and whether he can stick behind the plate.

We don't really have a comparable batter. Maybe Davis, but different profile. Honestly, it might be Johnson, but Johnson is still in the low minors. I don't think much of Baseball Prospectus at all, but they had Ramirez as a top-30 prospect.

My initial reaction is that it might be a double whammy where we didn't get the perfect fit _and_ prices are high enough that we'll be lucky to do much of anything. I didn't even mention Robert above because he has slipped my mind to the point where it's not even worth dreaming on him. I'd give up Chandler and Johnson for him, in large part because I just don't see how we solve CF next season. If we got Mullins, I imagine people would be pissed, but I'd be relieved to take a shot at a veteran in a contract year.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Based on what have they made "no indication" that they'll make a move? Every rumor has said the same exact thing: they want to add 1 or 2 bats. Every comment from the team has been the same, it's about them wanting to add offense.



"Writing on the wall", as in "I'm making up my own agenda to complain about".

Every indication so far has been that the Pirates want to improve their offense and add 1 or 2 bats. Literally every report about their deadline plans suggests that this is what they're trying to do.
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No “writing on the wall” as in a guy literally went on the radio and said this snuck up on the front office and they don’t want to give up most of their prospects because they believe ‘25, ‘26 and ‘27 are the years they will be true contenders… they will most likely do nothing or make some small move to make it look like they tried to appease the fanbase. Then we will get the spin about how prices were too high for other pieces they missed out on.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Based on what have they made "no indication" that they'll make a move? Every rumor has said the same exact thing: they want to add 1 or 2 bats. Every comment from the team has been the same, it's about them wanting to add offense.



"Writing on the wall", as in "I'm making up my own agenda to complain about".

Every indication so far has been that the Pirates want to improve their offense and add 1 or 2 bats. Literally every report about their deadline plans suggests that this is what they're trying to do.
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That is NOT what DK is saying. He has repeated several times that Cherington does not believe in this team and is still focused on next year. There is simply no urgency to win now, even though they have one of the best starting staffs in the game and they are right in the thick of the playoff race.

And again, they don't HAVE to wait until the last possible second. Another bat could have helped them win several more games this past week, including the one run losses to teams they are directly competing with. I would love to have to come on here and eat crow about how they made outstanding moves to improve the team, but I don't expect it.

TimmyD said:
No “writing on the wall” as in a guy literally went on the radio and said this snuck up on the front office and they don’t want to give up most of their prospects because they believe ‘25, ‘26 and ‘27 are the years they will be true contenders… they will most likely do nothing or make some small move to make it look like they tried to appease the fanbase. Then we will get the spin about how prices were too high for other pieces they missed out on.
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This is exactly what I get from DK's podcasts.
 
TimmyD said:
No “writing on the wall” as in a guy literally went on the radio and said this snuck up on the front office and they don’t want to give up most of their prospects because they believe ‘25, ‘26 and ‘27 are the years they will be true contenders… they will most likely do nothing or make some small move to make it look like they tried to appease the fanbase. Then we will get the spin about how prices were too high for other pieces they missed out on.
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That is factually not what was said. They said they don't want to trade any of their top prospects like Chandler, Johnson or Ashcraft. Literally no one here expects them to do that.

Again, they'll add like 1 or 2 bats at the deadline. Everyone knows that has been their plan for weeks now.

TooManyHumans said:
That is NOT what DK is saying. He has repeated several times that Cherington does not believe in this team and is still focused on next year. There is simply no urgency to win now, even though they have one of the best starting staffs in the game and they are right in the thick of the playoff race.

And again, they don't HAVE to wait until the last possible second. Another bat could have helped them win several more games this past week, including the one run losses to teams they are directly competing with. I would love to have to come on here and eat crow about how they made outstanding moves to improve the team, but I don't expect it.


This is exactly what I get from DK's podcasts.
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Why does DK somehow have more credibility than literally every other MLB insider that has said what the Pirates plan is? DK is full of shit, he also just said that the Steelers are looking at trading for Tyreek Hill.
 
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Literal quote from Ben Cherington from a week ago:


“Even before that run of 10 games, we felt this team was capable of doing that,” Cherington said. “So we were preparing to be in a position to add to the team, to help it get better. That is what our preparation has been for several weeks now. We felt like we could do that, and that was the goal. So the preparation and the goals haven’t changed, but it is true. Of course the wins matter because it clarifies where you are. Certainly it clarifies, and the better we play it will continue to clarify, is the math. It does help the math look better. That helps clarify that an acquisition or opportunity could make sense, whereas if the math doesn’t not look good, in certain cases, that makes it harder to justify it.”
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“Obviously, we can go back on the season and think about, certainly there’s a public narrative, but the reality has been at times during the season, we’ve had a harder time scoring runs. So that could be a focus. But we’re not only focused on offense. We’re asking ourselves where are the opportunities to improve this roster in a way that helps us in 2024 and also puts us in a position to keep getting better after.”
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