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Quinn Hughes is having a Hart caliber season

x Tame Impala said:
I know I'm quoting this out of context but i can't help but LOL at how analytics in general has transformed hockey discussions.

"Have you seen MY chart!?"
"Yeah your chart sucks, look at THIS chart"

Rinse/repeat.
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Well when one chart is pathetic and generic, while the other actually deep dives into quality of competition and usage, yes.
 
benfranklin said:
Lol did you ignore the chart posted only 2 pages ago?View attachment 975562
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This is something that is supposed to look smart but is mostly just dumb in my opinion. Primarily there's no such thing as being 'sheltered' when playing 25+ minutes a game. But just a couple points I'd bring up with the above...

- Considering Vancouver has Marcus Pettersson in there (where's Elias?) this is a very short sample size. One which Hughes has been injured half the time.
- This only looks at individual defensemen, which you can roughly chart into pairings for the most part (can't tell with Philly). It doesn't factor in the caliber of player, or the forward group that they may get deployed with as a 5 man unit, all of which effects the strategy the team may deploy.
- A simple one first but Zone Starts is a hard number you can measure but 'Quality of Competition' is not. Makes me question how useful the visual representation of the charting is here. For example there's no consideration for TOI.

In terms of team deployment strategy, while Vancouver's blueline Pettersson/Hronek aside has been pretty bad all year, since the Miller trade it's been a complete reversal and every pairing has been completely reliable even without Hughes. This gives much more leeway in deployment. Compared to Colorado, who's chart does more or less suggest that they really shelter their bottom pairing. Also consider the 5 man unit

Also consider the 5 man unit. Colorado has the MacKinnon line they can put head to head against the leagues best, I don't know if this is what they actually did but I'd assume in their Edmonton game they put a 5 man unit MacKinnon/Makar up against McDavid. While with Vancouver forwards it would be a better idea to deploy more of a 'contain' strategy and try to counter when McDavid isn't on the ice.

The above is just random team make up and strategy stuff that the advanced stat charts don't show but certainly has an effect in the results they produce. Again, the idea that a dman can be 'sheltered' when playing 25+ minutes a game is absurd. And don't give me some chart that graphs something subjective like 'QoC' and doesn't take any consideration for ice time where there can be a 10 minute spread.

These types of stats have their place but determining a Norris candidate is not one of them.
 
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RandV said:
This is something that is supposed to look smart but is mostly just dumb in my opinion. Primarily there's no such thing as being 'sheltered' when playing 25+ minutes a game. But just a couple points I'd bring up with the above...

- Considering Vancouver has Marcus Pettersson in there (where's Elias?) this is a very short sample size. One which Hughes has been injured half the time.
- This only looks at individual defensemen, which you can roughly chart into pairings for the most part (can't tell with Philly). It doesn't factor in the caliber of player, or the forward group that they may get deployed with as a 5 man unit, all of which effects the strategy the team may deploy.
- A simple one first but Zone Starts is a hard number you can measure but 'Quality of Competition' is not. Makes me question how useful the visual representation of the charting is here. For example there's no consideration for TOI.

In terms of team deployment strategy, while Vancouver's blueline Pettersson/Hronek aside has been pretty bad all year, since the Miller trade it's been a complete reversal and every pairing has been completely reliable even without Hughes. This gives much more leeway in deployment. Compared to Colorado, who's chart does more or less suggest that they really shelter their bottom pairing. Also consider the 5 man unit

Also consider the 5 man unit. Colorado has the MacKinnon line they can put head to head against the leagues best, I don't know if this is what they actually did but I'd assume in their Edmonton game they put a 5 man unit MacKinnon/Makar up against McDavid. While with Vancouver forwards it would be a better idea to deploy more of a 'contain' strategy and try to counter when McDavid isn't on the ice.

The above is just random team make up and strategy stuff that the advanced stat charts don't show but certainly has an effect in the results they produce. Again, the idea that a dman can be 'sheltered' when playing 25+ minutes a game is absurd. And don't give me some chart that graphs something subjective like 'QoC' and doesn't take any consideration for ice time where there can be a 10 minute spread.

These types of stats have their place but determining a Norris candidate is not one of them.
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Lol I stopped reading after you expected EP to be in a defensemen chart.
 
LemonSauceD said:
McDavid was absent for a game against the Canucks, Draisaitl played 19 and 21 minutes in 2 of the games against the Canucks this year vs Hughes 25-26 minutes. Canucks were also blown out twice against the Oilers which definitely changes line deployment and matchups.

I mean if you do the same thing for last year, using the Oilers as an example, Makar played 18 minutes against Draisaitl and Bouchard, 17 against McDavid.
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Again....I'm not looking at stats being produced, I trust they are accurate, but I simply looked at two box scores against EDM and compiled time on ice stats myself. COL played EDM last week (1 goal game) and I took an EDM game earlier in the year for VAN (didn't cherry pick, simply started with their schedule and grabbed the first one I think...it was also a 1 goal game).

Hughes played 25 min, 9 min of that was against either McDavid or Draisaitl or both.
Makar played 29 min, 18 min of that was against either McDavid or Draisaitl or both
 
yeaher said:
Quinn Hughes is the captain of his team, and it is falling apart from within. Major, major downvotes for that. Hard for me to vote for him as league MVP when he can't even keep his team in line.
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Was*
They look rejuvenated since miller left
 
The best argument in history by some absolute genius commenters is that Hughes is playing with scrubs therefore he sucks

So he was on a 100+ point pace and playing with scrubs therefor he isn’t good and is sheltered

The logic is next level

I especially loved the argument of why didn’t you include PP zone starts in 5v5 play

👌
 
It's honestly really disappointing that Quinn Hughes isn't playing for the US in the 4 nations tournament. It will give people who don't see Hughes often "Which I think there are a lot on here" a different perspective on just how good Hughes is. Makar, Werenski and Hughes are all amazing defensemen, but I feel that Hughes gets the shaft quite often because East coast fans are a sleep by the time Hughes plays.
 
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PavelBure10 said:
It's honestly really disappointing that Quinn Hughes isn't playing for the US in the 4 nations tournament. It will give people who don't see Hughes often "Which I think there are a lot on here" a different perspective on just how good Hughes is. Makar, Werenski and Hughes are all amazing defensemen, but I feel that Hughes gets the shaft quite often because East coast fans are a sleep by the time Hughes plays.
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lol I’m pretty sure people on the east coast know who Quinn Hughes is and how good he is. There are people who think there are better dmen in the league than him and have their reasons for it.
 
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