Quinn Hughes is having a Hart caliber season

[MarkusNaslund19]

3-0 Jets and Hughes bails on a puck behind net to avoid getting hit .... Bing, bang pucks in the net 4-0 Jets.
league MVP? ......not a chance.

What an ignorant, cherry picked misinterpretation on so many levels.

Hurr durr, he quit cuz he dun currr. Dan he bad and no Hrat Torphy.

Good stuff. Nice to see the discourse level on the main boards is "put in air pods if you overheard this nonsense at a bus stop' levels.

 

[geebster]

Hughes has played 246 minutes against grit in 38 games. Makar 196 in 44. That's not a 45 seconds per game difference. More like 2 minutes per game. That is significant. Like 10% of Hughes total 5v5 icetime.

I said by percent. 8% of Hughes' grit ice time is 40 seconds per game. They don't play the same 5v5 minutes so the way you are calculating it isn't intelligible. If Hughes is playing more time 5 on 5 against elite competition than Makar, why does it matter that he also plays more minutes against bad competition? Being out there more isn't a bad thing. You cannot say he avoids elite competition when he plays them more per game... and then fault him for playing more minutes on top of that against other lines. By the way your claim was about elite competion yet you don't even address that point.

Also odd that you are arguing the raw numbers when your contention was the proportion (the % against low vs high competition). That's why I responded directly to your claim. That if Quinn Hughes played his minutes at the same proportion as Makar what is that time difference and how productive is he in that time. I also did that for his medium and elite when I looked to see if his production would wildly change (it didnt)

It's real simple, 0.08 x 246 x 60 / 38 ... is actually 31 seconds per game. So even less than I had. Your framing is that the appropriate way to compare their usage is to just say... hey why doesn't Hughes just delete their raw minutes difference on grit..and ignore that he has more 5 on 5 minutes overall so his proportions would be entirely different than Makars. Instead of deleting minutes just adjust the proportion.. if your entire argument is about proportion.

Just imagine if I pointed to a 6/7th defenseman and said hey they only get 2 mins a game against bad competition!! They must be getting much worse deployment than Hughes does... heck Hughes is so sheltered!!! No... if someone plays fewer minutes in the sample they will have smaller raw numbers.

 

[PaulD]

What an ignorant, cherry picked misinterpretation on so many levels.

Hurr durr, he quit cuz he dun currr. Dan he bad and no Hrat Torphy.

Good stuff. Nice to see the discourse level on the main boards is "put in air pods if you overheard this nonsense at a bus stop' levels.

Many players I pick over Hughes for MVP of the league
BTW.....think he show up for play offs this year?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I’d honestly be happy for a Dman to win the award, overlooked position

Yup , especially in todays game where all these little forwards are crackheads that can stickhandle in a phone booth and shoot 100 mph if given 2 seconds in the slot.

 

[Rowlet]

Many players I pick over Hughes for MVP of the league
BTW.....think he show up for play offs this year?

Hughes possession numbers were better in the post season than they were in the regular season.

This is just a tired talking point which has been proven false already.

 

[John Mandalorian]

He’s in the non forward conversation with Werenski, Makar, and Hellebuyck.

 

[Rowlet]

He’s in the non forward conversation with Werenski, Makar, and Hellebuyck.

Hughes and Hellebuyck are not like the others...

 

[Panteras]

Hughes and Hellebuyck are not like the others...

They’re both American

 

[Rowlet]

They’re both American

...and they're way more important to their teams than Werenski and Makar are to theirs.

Makar famously has really bad stats when MacKinnon isn't on the ice, and Werenski's stats are dependant on the Monahan line, though not nearly to the same extent.

 

[John Mandalorian]

...and they're way more important to their teams than Werenski and Makar are to theirs.

Makar famously has really bad stats when MacKinnon isn't on the ice, and Werenski's stats are dependant on the Monahan line, though not nearly to the same extent.

Werenski's team is currently in a playoff spot with all that happened, no? Must be pretty important to his team.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

That's nice. I'll be in reality where Hughes comes nowhere close to the Hart.

I got a few alerts today to a couple of my posts and took a look. I was pretty harsh with you last night. Sorry.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

3-0 Jets and Hughes bails on a puck behind net to avoid getting hit .... Bing, bang pucks in the net 4-0 Jets.
league MVP? ......not a chance.

Was that before or after a unicorn served you wings and beer at Hooters?

 

[Rowlet]

Werenski's team is currently in a playoff spot with all that happened, no? Must be pretty important to his team.

Sure, but being "pretty important" doesn't mean he's more important to his team than any other player in the league.

 

[Warh1ppy]

If the Canucks make the playoffs and Hughes breaks 80 points he should absolutely be in the talk for a Hart trophy because they'll have made the playoffs because of Hughes specifically and we saw what happened without him

 

[dirtydanglez]

Hughes possession numbers were better in the post season than they were in the regular season.

This is just a tired talking point which has been proven false already.

possession doesn't win hockey games.

also the canucks have been struggling and just got knocked out of the last wildcard spot. hughes missing the playoffs this year isn't out of the question.

 

[McFlash97]

The fact that a number 1 defenseman doesn't even kill penalties or at least on 1 of the pk units automatically disqualifies Hughes from Hart consideration. Tbh. That stat alone should disqualify a defenseman from Norris considerations, but hey who am I right ?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Sure, but being "pretty important" doesn't mean he's more important to his team than any other player in the league.

Not true. If your team doesn't make the playoffs, its not as important. If you're the most important player to your team but its a bottom feeder team, people care about the "important to your team" thing a lot less.

 

[Rowlet]

possession doesn't win hockey games.

also the canucks have been struggling and just got knocked out of the last wildcard spot. hughes missing the playoffs this year isn't out of the question.

The comment was insinuating that Hughes disappears in the playoffs, not that the Canucks wouldn't make it, which is untrue.

 

[Rowlet]

Not true. If your team doesn't make the playoffs, its not as important. If you're the most important player to your team but its a bottom feeder team, people care about the "important to your team" thing a lot less.

That's not how it works, but I agree that neither player would be considered if their team misses the playoffs.

Without Hughes on the ice, the Canucks become an AHL team, while Werenski isn't even leading his team in possession stats, he's under 50% when the Monahan line isn't on the ice, yet Monahan is at 53% even without Werenski.

 

[John Mandalorian]

That's not how it works, but I agree that neither player would be considered if their team misses the playoffs.

Without Hughes on the ice, the Canucks become an AHL team, while Werenski isn't even leading his team in possession stats, he's under 50% when the Monahan line isn't on the ice, yet Monahan is at 53% even without Werenski.

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Whats the point of saying "that's not how it works" then in the same sentence you agree that this is how it works?

 

[Rowlet]

Whats the point of saying "that's not how it works" then in the same sentence you agree that this is how it works?

Because beyond the fact that typically players who don't make the playoffs aren't considered, your method of evaluation is silly. They aren't considered not because they aren't as important, but because voters are biased in favour of teams who make the playoffs.

If your argument is to only say "Hughes is less important because the Canucks aren't on pace to make the playoffs", that just makes it seem like you aren't actually interested in determining who is more important to their team. If you simply want the conversation to stop, then you can ignore the thread.

Last I checked, Hughes was leading the league in adv stats relative to their teammates, while Werenski isn't even leading the Blue Jackets.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Because beyond the fact that typically players who don't make the playoffs aren't considered, your method of evaluation is silly. They aren't considered not because they aren't as important, but because voters are biased in favour of teams who make the playoffs.

If your argument is to only say "Hughes is less important because the Canucks aren't on pace to make the playoffs", that just makes it seem like you aren't actually interested in determining who is more important to their team. If you simply want the conversation to stop, then you can ignore the thread.

Last I checked, Hughes was leading the league in adv stats relative to their teammates, while Werenski isn't even leading the Blue Jackets.

Youre attributing to me certain arguments when im just sharing widely-held observations of how it works - whether you agree or not.

I think you can make an argument MVP should be player of the year simply based on the original definition being voided by outdated/obsolete language. "Ajudged" when was the last time you used that in a sentence without it being the reciting of this? Seeing a relic of a word like this makes one wonder how many teams were in the league at the outset of this definition.

Determining the most important player to a team among 6 teams that are all/mostly in the Eastern time zone seems to be a lot less problematic than determining the "most valuable" player to 32 teams. Several teams are in the west an many voters dont even watch these games. So why even pretend that the level of scrutiny can be the same when it comes to adhering to the original definition.

Practically speaking, its been closer to Player of the Year for a long time. And its probably for the best.

But even in adhering to that old language, it's highly subjective.

 

[danisonfire]

Quinn Hughes is having a Hart caliber season. All that needs to be said.

 

[dirtydanglez]

The comment was insinuating that Hughes disappears in the playoffs, not that the Canucks wouldn't make it, which is untrue.

his production dipped last postseason so i think that's a fair criticism as well.

 

[Rowlet]

his production dipped last postseason so i think that's a fair criticism as well.

His production dipped but his overall play was better.

The Canucks top 6 had Ilya Mikheyev in it, and Pettersson was suffering from tendinitis, additionally, with the injury to Demko the team was forced to switch from a higher offence transition system that regularly left Demko out to dry, to one that had to collapse around Silovs and protect tons of high danger chances against and turtle leads harder, while relying on very few chances for.