Quicker rebuild, Isn't possible/plannable right now? Habs / Dubois-Bedard,... Slaf,CC,Suz...

[Sasha Orlov]

You're not making any sense. What does the length of the rebuild have to do with the following:

- Acquiring Dubois
- Mike Matheson
- The interaction between these two moves

?



Crock of shit.

I can only explain it to you, I can’t understand it for you

 

[MarioLeMoose]

Not right now. There are players who have that potential if they hit their ceiling, but as it stands now the Habs don’t have any elite talent.

Agreed. Suzuki, Caufield and Slaf are all definitely elite talents, but they need to produce that way before they can have that status. They are all most certainly capable of that status though, as soon as this year (for Suzuki and Caufield)

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I can only explain it to you, I can’t understand it for you

So go ahead, explain it.

 

[MarioLeMoose]

That’s the other way around. If his name was Pierre Wood no one here would bat an eye about him.

I still think we’d bat an eye about a 24yo PWF who scores 60pts and has suggested he is interested in playing for us.

 

[KFlint]

Not sure Dubois is that much of a need if pieces fall into place with our offense… Wait and see what happens with his performances and what we have here.

Quick rebuild doesn’t mean failed rebuild imo, think it will be the model for the years to come, cycles will be shorter, contending teams are willing to give up a lot to compete in the playoffs. The cap offers a lot of opportunities and good GM are finally taking full advantage of it.

That certainly can speed things up, still we aren’t competing in 2-3 years if our defense doesn’t take a massive step forward and we don’t have a #1 goalie (easier to fix probably).

We will have a high pick this year and our offense will be set for years, that’s a good start.

 

[cphabs]

Starting with Dubois:
Just watched some of his interview with Dreger... When a player speaks about his life/family, career related like he did, I feel the guy wants it close to home... Chances could be favorable that he sign in MTL. Cap space is freeing up shortly and TDL *could* be favorable for the habs this year.

Kent is smart and he already let everyone have an appealing taste for the future of this team. Suz, CC, Slaf, +Ghule, etc.

Next Top 3 of the draft will be sick like we all know and Bedard could very well land in MTL with a bit of luck.

Could it be possible to switch it in the fast lane for Kent in the next year or so?

Bedard(or another top 3)/Suzuki/Dubois/Caufield/Slafkovsky... Holy Sh..


What could work for you in a quicker rebuild? These rebuild looks more and more possible with some smarts these days.

Some “smarts”? Our franchise owner? He just realized he is operating in a capped, expanding, and the profit sharing league. These facts demand a graduated approach to building a cup contending team. There is no quick solution. Me? I’m excited with our current front office.

 

[Lshap]

Don't count on Bedard. Best guess for 2023 is we draft a very good forward around 6-10. Even with Dubois signing here a year later and Slafkovsky becoming a solid top-6, our offence will be good but not elite. Good scoring depth, but no game-breaking talent.

Our D is impossible to project, but if two prospects develop well, we'll be decent. If one of our goalie prospects develop well, we're a bubble team in 2025/26.

This team isn't going far if the only strategy is staying the course. To become a contender we need luck and fearlessness. We need a couple of late-round picks to become a stars. HuGo needs to be as aggressive in trading away picks as he is acquiring them once we're ready to compete.

 

[Mrb1p]

I’ll give you that any day of the week. Getting PLD in the future means our days of being a small team is over. We’ll be loaded with quality physical/big forwards, which is an excellent outcome. Plus our D seems pretty big.

We’d « only » need a 1D and 1G… but that’s another subject.

Lmao the 1G i can do without, but that 1D is scary. Wed go from generational goaltending and elite 1D to the Flyers real quick.

Im still hopeful about Primeau/Dobes/

Not sure Dubois is that much of a need if pieces fall into place with our offense… Wait and see what happens with his performances and what we have here.

Quick rebuild doesn’t mean failed rebuild imo, think it will be the model for the years to come, cycles will be shorter, contending teams are willing to give up a lot to compete in the playoffs. The cap offers a lot of opportunities and good GM are finally taking full advantage of it.

That certainly can speed things up, still we aren’t competing in 2-3 years if our defense doesn’t take a massive step forward and we don’t have a #1 goalie (easier to fix probably).

We will have a high pick this year and our offense will be set for years, that’s a good start.

Dubois is a free top 6 winger with size and defensive acumen.

The Habs currently have 3 top 6 forwards, and Im counting Slaf in this.

 

[Goldenhands]

Don't count on Bedard. Best guess for 2023 is we draft a very good forward around 6-10. Even with Dubois signing here a year later and Slafkovsky becoming a solid top-6, our offence will be good but not elite. Good scoring depth, but no game-breaking talent.

Our D is impossible to project, but if two prospects develop well, we'll be decent. If one of our goalie prospects develop well, we're a bubble team in 2025/26.

This team isn't going far if the only strategy is staying the course. To become a contender we need luck and fearlessness. We need a couple of late-round picks to become a stars. HuGo needs to be as aggressive in trading away picks as he is acquiring them once we're ready to compete.

Slaf Suzuki Caufield

Carlsson Dubois Dach

Heineman Dvorak/Beck Ylonen

I would say a such line-up has alot of firepower up front.

The D and goaltending remains a work in progress though.

Dubois has been rumored to MTL for a while and kid would love to play here is what Im hearing.

 

[Lshap]

Slaf Suzuki Caufield

Carlsson Dubois Dach

Heineman Dvorak/Beck Ylonen

I would say a such line-up has alot of firepower up front.

The D and goaltending remains a work in progress though.

Dubois has been rumored to MTL for a while and kid would love to play here is what Im hearing.

If we get PLD and our players reach their potential, sure, we'll have a good offence. But is it comparable to Colorado, Tampa, Toronto, Florida? Is it better than what Ottawa's offence projects to be? The question isn't whether the Habs will be a much better team – I agree we will be – it's whether we're on par with the top teams of the day. To get to that level, we'll need to be lucky as well as smart.

 

[Frankenheimer]

In what way shape or form is Bedard plannable?

 

[Mrb1p]

If we get PLD and our players reach their potential, sure, we'll have a good offence. But is it comparable to Colorado, Tampa, Toronto, Florida? Is it better than what Ottawa's offence projects to be? The question isn't whether the Habs will be a much better team – I agree we will be – it's whether we're on par with the top teams of the day. To get to that level, we'll need to be lucky as well as smart.

Caufield can match Rantanens production.
Slafkovsky can hopefully match Landeskogs.
Bedard/Carlson can hopefully match Mackinnon.
And even if Mackinnon can't be matched, Suzuki and Dubois will more than make up for it.


Now the big problem is that defense the Avs boast.

Toronto, Tampa and Florida will be irrelevant in three years. Canes, Sabres, Oilers, NJD will be the superpowers. (Hopefully Habs too.) I guess Toronto could stay in that group but Matthews is going to ask for more than 13 millions.

The sens are a non-factor for me, the Habs already have equal/better pieces and they still have one more top 5 pick to come, they really screwed up with the Boucher pick.

In what way shape or form is Bedard plannable?

The Habs are getting a top 5 pick at worst. You can plan for Bedard, Michkov, Carlson, Fantili, Dvorsky, Yager. Regardless thats a top 6 player.

Dubois comes in and fills the wing or center spot left.

Magic.

 

[MoneyManny]

Slaf Suzuki Caufield

Carlsson Dubois Dach

Heineman Dvorak/Beck Ylonen

I would say a such line-up has alot of firepower up front.

The D and goaltending remains a work in progress though.

Dubois has been rumored to MTL for a while and kid would love to play here is what Im hearing.

Lots of lottery tickets and magic lamp wishes in your lineup.

 

[Dach Vader]

Obviously they want to do it as fast as possible but It's going to take as long as it takes.

As for Dubois.. The player who he is right now. I'd welcome him with open arms.

 

[Goldenhands]

Lots of lottery tickets and magic lamp wishes in your lineup.

Only Carlsson, who is possibly the most NHL ready prospect from the next draft. Heineman could play in the NHL this year and Ylonen is knocking at the door.

 

[Lockin17]

I don't think the Habs will get a top 5 next year.
I hope we get a top10 and draft Dalibor Dvorsky
Hopefully Panthers get a bad year and we get a mid pick and draft Cameron Allen or Maxim Strbak

Trade Dvorak/Kidney - Monahan/Dadonov (trade line) try to get a other first pick 2023 (Ethan Gauthier)
These 3 would bring our rebuild almost complete.

??-Suzuki-caufield
Slaf-Dvorski-Mesar
Heinement-Dach-Anderson
Beck-Evans-Gallagher
RHP-Ylonen-Pezzeta-Roy-Gauthier**

Matheson-Harris
Ghule-Barron
Jackeye-Allen/Strbak
Mailloux-Hutson

Primeau
?? (Mercer looked really good)

 

[Redux91]

but as it stands now the Habs don’t have any elite talent.

Good scoring depth, but no game-breaking talent.

Ok I'm really but REALLY not understanding these types of posts lol

So Cole Caufield doesnt exist all of a sudden??

What would you consider CC if not game-breaker..?? And Elite talent?

I was having that conversation the other day like, the ingredients to great teams:
Gotta have 1C and C depth, gotta have 1D and relatively good top 4, need good #1 goalie sure, need scoring depth across the top 9, and then you need the game breaker.
Sometimes on your team the game breaker happens to also be your 1C if your lucky enough, sometimes it's your 1D, sometimes it's just a star winger

Not every team and not every good team HAS the game breaker piece, sometimes its the last ingredient you need to get over the top

You can say what you want about our 1C situation, and we definitely dont have a 1D, we dont have a 1G anymore but used to
But ... the game breaker checkbox? For us? For the habs? It already has a checkmark
Fortunately for US and it just happened to fall this way but we already HAVE the game breaker, and it's a load off my mind and we are super lucky in regards to that particular piece for wanting a great team. We already have him, so at least that's one crucial piece out of the way

And honestly I wont hear anything different about that lol, I know that's arrogant, but if people forgot, go watch the highlights of the Vegas playoff series where the star was born
That's not random games in february, that's CONFERENCE FINAL playoffs lol and you tell me what are those goals vs Vegas, if not game breaking elite talent?

Sorry for the rant lol, just cant believe people are selling CC ...short

 

[CHfan1]

Ok I'm really but REALLY not understanding these types of posts lol

So Cole Caufield doesnt exist all of a sudden??

What would you consider CC if not game-breaker..?? And Elite talent?

I was having that conversation the other day like, the ingredients to great teams:
Gotta have 1C and C depth, gotta have 1D and relatively good top 4, need good #1 goalie sure, need scoring depth across the top 9, and then you need the game breaker.
Sometimes on your team the game breaker happens to also be your 1C if your lucky enough, sometimes it's your 1D, sometimes it's just a star winger

Not every team and not every good team HAS the game breaker piece, sometimes its the last ingredient you need to get over the top

You can say what you want about our 1C situation, and we definitely dont have a 1D, we dont have a 1G anymore but used to
But ... the game breaker checkbox? For us? For the habs? It already has a checkmark
Fortunately for US and it just happened to fall this way but we already HAVE the game breaker, and it's a load off my mind and we are super lucky in regards to that particular piece for wanting a great team. We already have him, so at least that's one crucial piece out of the way

And honestly I wont hear anything different about that lol, I know that's arrogant, but if people forgot, go watch the highlights of the Vegas playoff series where the star was born
That's not random games in february, that's CONFERENCE FINAL playoffs lol and you tell me what are those goals vs Vegas, if not game breaking elite talent?

Sorry for the rant lol, just cant believe people are selling CC ...short

As it stands now the Habs don’t have a MacKinnon, Makar, Hedman, Kucherov, Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Keith, Doughty, Kopitar elite type of player that helps win Cups. To be a contender year in and year out and win Cups it really helps to have that elite talent. Caufield’s great and I have high hopes for him but I don’t think he is as good as the players I listed. Maybe he continues to grow and puts up 40 goals + a year, if he does that it’ll go a long way.

 

[KFlint]

Dubois is a free top 6 winger with size and defensive acumen.

The Habs currently have 3 top 6 forwards, and Im counting Slaf in this.

If he wants 8M a year for 7 years though, not sure I want to overpay for him personally, the reason I say wait and see… He is not a defensive wizard either.

 

[Lshap]

Ok I'm really but REALLY not understanding these types of posts lol

So Cole Caufield doesnt exist all of a sudden??

What would you consider CC if not game-breaker..?? And Elite talent?

I was having that conversation the other day like, the ingredients to great teams:
Gotta have 1C and C depth, gotta have 1D and relatively good top 4, need good #1 goalie sure, need scoring depth across the top 9, and then you need the game breaker.
Sometimes on your team the game breaker happens to also be your 1C if your lucky enough, sometimes it's your 1D, sometimes it's just a star winger

Not every team and not every good team HAS the game breaker piece, sometimes its the last ingredient you need to get over the top

You can say what you want about our 1C situation, and we definitely dont have a 1D, we dont have a 1G anymore but used to
But ... the game breaker checkbox? For us? For the habs? It already has a checkmark
Fortunately for US and it just happened to fall this way but we already HAVE the game breaker, and it's a load off my mind and we are super lucky in regards to that particular piece for wanting a great team. We already have him, so at least that's one crucial piece out of the way

And honestly I wont hear anything different about that lol, I know that's arrogant, but if people forgot, go watch the highlights of the Vegas playoff series where the star was born
That's not random games in february, that's CONFERENCE FINAL playoffs lol and you tell me what are those goals vs Vegas, if not game breaking elite talent?

Sorry for the rant lol, just cant believe people are selling CC ...short

I love Caufield, but he'd need to start scoring at least 40 to be considered elite. Very possible he becomes that player, but so far he hasn't. It's equally possible he becomes a 30-35 goal player; in which case we're still very lucky, but still in need of elite talent.

I'd love for you to say, "Told you so!", in six months.

 

[Mrb1p]

If he wants 8M a year for 7 years though, not sure I want to overpay for him personally, the reason I say wait and see… He is not a defensive wizard either.

8 is the new 6 man

 

[viceroy]

To be a contender means we can compete fairly with the Avalanches of the league.

Watching us get manhandled by the Lightning in 2021 showed me how big the step is between good teams and the true contenders. We have some great pieces but we need a couple of elite pieces to tangle for a Cup. PLD is nice but he won't get us over the top. A Hedman or Makar-type might.

The Dubois hate is hilarious. Change his name to Wood and hed be revered by the same posters lol.

Can we please keep the language garbage outta here. Sacrament!

Dubois is a free top 6 winger...

That sounds like Dubas talking about signing Tavares.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I don't understand the reflexive fear of "accelerating the rebuild" as if the Bergevin/Gainey era management style is anything remotely similar to adding Dubois and having young players like Guhle/Slaf/Dach take steps and become important players ahead of schedule.

This team does not need to tank for 4 more years before trying to improve, and in the event that things go horribly wrong with the current group of young players, Dubois is young enough to still be good 4-5 seasons from now, massively mitigates the risk that you end up with Suzuki on an island as our only core C, and does not prevent you from picking high in the meantime if the other players aren't ready.

 

[Lshap]

Caufield can match Rantanens production.
Slafkovsky can hopefully match Landeskogs.
Bedard/Carlson can hopefully match Mackinnon.
And even if Mackinnon can't be matched, Suzuki and Dubois will more than make up for it.


Now the big problem is that defense the Avs boast.

Toronto, Tampa and Florida will be irrelevant in three years. Canes, Sabres, Oilers, NJD will be the superpowers. (Hopefully Habs too.) I guess Toronto could stay in that group but Matthews is going to ask for more than 13 millions.

The sens are a non-factor for me, the Habs already have equal/better pieces and they still have one more top 5 pick to come, they really screwed up with the Boucher pick.


The Habs are getting a top 5 pick at worst. You can plan for Bedard, Michkov, Carlson, Fantili, Dvorsky, Yager. Regardless thats a top 6 player.

Dubois comes in and fills the wing or center spot left.

Magic.

Sorry, but I can't see our guys matching Colorado's firepower up front. It looks like we have a few upper-tier players and really good depth, but I don't see a MacKinnon-level player in our future. And, as you said, the Habs have nothing close to the Avs' D. We're not finding another Makar in the draft; I'd be thrilled if we could find an Adam Fox.

We have to get really, really lucky with our prospects – a repeat of 2007's magic drafting of Subban, Pacioretty and McDonaugh – to have the critical mass of talent a contender needs. 2023 is obviously a huge year for stockpiling top picks. We can't afford to blow this.

 

[JoelWarlord]

2023 is obviously a huge year for stockpiling top picks. We can't afford to blow this.

That's the point though. Montreal got Caufield and Suzuki out of Bergevin's half-assed "retool" with Guhle on the way, 2022 produced Slafkovsky and a bunch of very intriguing prospects who there are very good reasons to be optimistic about, and they still have another top 5 pick on the way and a ton of 2023 draft capital. It's not about the system right now being good enough to justify accelerating things, it's about projecting another season of development + a loaded 2023 draft class and going into 23-24 with a much cleaner cap sheet after the 2023 deadline.

I guess to expand on my thinking a bit, I see the fear about adding Dubois as something that would prevent Montreal from assembling a top-tier core as a contradiction in terms. Either he's good enough to drag a hypothetically terrible roster to the wildcard bubble at which point you don't care because he IS that high-end player, or in the more realistic scenario he makes you 4-5 points better and you're happy with that because the certainty is more than worth the hypothetical future draft pick value especially given he's a massive safety blanket on your 2C position. Even in a pessimistic scenario where the team is still trash in 23-24 and everyone needs a ton more time, Dubois will be young enough that you don't care if you're waiting another 2-3 seasons and again, the security at the key 2C position is worth far more than the potential marginal increase in draft lottery odds.