Value of: Question: When Can Recently Signed UFAs Be Traded?

[Schemp]

??? What a weird thread. No team would do this, no player would sign to be traded afterwards, and the optics are bad! Retention on what term, a 7 year deal? Paying a player to play on another team for that term? 1 year I would expect their 1st if it gets by HQs.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Yeah... as I said. Doesn't mean it would be allowed.

It’s not circumventing the cap.

They would allow it

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

It’s not circumventing the cap.

They would allow it

They sure might!

 

[McVespa99]

No, most don't.

Most of the good ones do

 

[McSuper]

There was a rumour Edmonton and Montreal was going to do a sign and trade on Klingberg. So for 2 teams to be involved in negotiation it would have to be legal and no time restrictions.

 

[spaghtti]

Friedman mentioned it on his podcast.

Oilers News & Rumors: McLeod, Gagner, Klingberg, Patrick Kane - The Hockey Writers Edmonton Oilers Latest News, Analysis & More

In an Edmonton Oilers news and rumors update, there is buzz surrounding Ryan McLeod, Sam Gagner, John Klingberg and Patrick Kane.

thehockeywriters.com

I couldn't remember where I read it but a quick Google search gave many results all quoting Friedman

 

[BlueBaron]

Vegas: asking for a friend...

 

[Djp]

I didn't have much luck with a Google search, so I'm still unsure if there's a time period teams must wait before they're allowed to trade a player they've just signed in the off-season

For example, could the Blackhawks trade Domi right now? And if so, are there any restrictions with Chicago retaining salary?

I use Domi as an example because he only signed a 1 year deal, and given Chicago isn't expected to be competitive this season, I assume he joined the Blackhawks knowing full well the team's plan is to give him a significant role for the first half of the season in the hopes he'll have considerable value come the trade deadline

The only restrictions are when matching offer sheets. Thry can’t be traded fir 1 full year

if you sign a UFA the standard is you don’t trade thrm right away. The league will not allow a signed UFA then retain trade Under cap circumvention rules.

there is an understanding around 1 yr signings then deadline trades.

Calgary could sign kadri, retain 50% and trade him for futures and the NHL wouldn’t do anything.

False

the league would block such a trade with retention as cap circumvention.

 

[BlueBaron]

The only restrictions are when matching offer sheets. Thry can’t be traded fir 1 full year

if you sign a UFA the standard is you don’t trade thrm right away. The league will not allow a signed UFA then retain trade Under cap circumvention rules.

there is an understanding around 1 yr signings then deadline trades.


False

the league would block such a trade with retention as cap circumvention.

Since when? Does it say in the CBA you have to wait? I bet it doesn't. If the team retaining is compensated you can't justify the circumvention assertion . It's circumvention today but won't be in a month?

 

[Seanaconda]

We actually nearly saw that happen this summer. Holland reportedly nearly had Hughes sign Klingberg and retain salary to fit Klingberg under our cap

Didn't Montreal and Tampa try and do something similar years back with Lecavalier

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The only restrictions are when matching offer sheets. Thry can’t be traded fir 1 full year

if you sign a UFA the standard is you don’t trade thrm right away. The league will not allow a signed UFA then retain trade Under cap circumvention rules.

there is an understanding around 1 yr signings then deadline trades.


False

the league would block such a trade with retention as cap circumvention.

How is it cap circumvention, his cap hit is fully counting to the league.

It’s not a compliance buyout.

They wouldn’t care

Since when? Does it say in the CBA you have to wait? I bet it doesn't. If the team retaining is compensated you can't justify the circumvention assertion . It's circumvention today but won't be in a month?

It doesn’t

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Calgary could sign kadri, retain 50% and trade him for futures and the NHL wouldn’t do anything.

No way, they would at least investigate it pretty thoroughly. And they'd probably find it to be cap circumvention and punish both teams, I'd think.

 

[Kahvi]

Tkachuk was traded to Florida right after he signed with Calgary. Yes, it was agreed beforehand but just an example that you can trade a player right after you sign him.

There's one related rule though. If you sign a player to a one year deal, you can't sign an extension until January with that player.

 

[Fig]

NHL wouldn’t stop it. They allowed the Orpik one, which was an obvious case of circumventing the cap.

Orpik isn't even the same type of situation. It was a buyout and it was a similar scenario to Stone in Calgary. Basically, the league investigated both guys, determined that the only team that had interest in them was the original team and there was no UFA on the market that was better than those two guys fit wise, so it was not considered circumvention because of the lack of interest from other teams.

Caps cleared of any wrongdoing after NHL investigates Brooks Orpik’s trade, buyout and re-signing

Now if using the Kadri example, if the Flames signed and immediately traded a UFA Kadri at 50% for a bucket full of assets, the league would definitely investigate and reject likely based on the concept that there was no intention for Kadri to play for Calgary (thus collusion for cap circumvention for the acquiring team).

But if Kadri is signed fully intending on playing, finds out there's a very legitimate family reason why he wants to be in Toronto... then if Calgary traded Kadri to Toronto at 50% for a bucket full of assets before he played a single game, then that might fly. However, I assume Calgary and Toronto would literally ask the NHL/NHLPA to review the proposed trade prior to submitting papers, rather than ask for forgiveness > permission.

 

[Djp]

How is it cap circumvention, his cap hit is fully counting to the league.

It’s not a compliance buyout.

They wouldn’t care


It doesn’t

A team signing a player then trading before playing a game them is not allowed. If a team is effectively taking a large chunk of salary after signing a player is the same as say…team A is willing to take say $4M of teams B cap hit over the next x years. Thus is clearly not allowed in the CBA.
you can’t trade a player, have him be bought out, then resigned by original team

 

[wonton15]

Tkachuk was traded to Florida right after he signed with Calgary. Yes, it was agreed beforehand but just an example that you can trade a player right after you sign him.

There's one related rule though. If you sign a player to a one year deal, you can't sign an extension until January with that player.

RFA and UFA are completely different scenarios, though. Tkachuk one isn’t that crazy even if it doesn’t happen often

 

[thewookie1]

NHL wouldn’t stop it. They allowed the Orpik one, which was an obvious case of circumventing the cap.

However they warned against anyone doing it again.

 

[AmeriHab]

Pretty sure there is no formal restriction, but if a team signed a guy and immediately retained on him to another team, there would be an investigation.

If a guy signs a contract, gets arrested, and then gets flipped with retention... it might fly.

If a guy signs a contract and is flipped with retention despite nothing occurring to reasonably cause that "change of heart", I suspect the transaction would be voided and there could be serious punishment.

Definitely flies if something happens alas Zack Kassian in mtl