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Question to hardcore soccer fans

Football in England is a different level.... they have so many clubs and upper and lower leagues and promotion / relegation and a crooked top prem league where you have to be a big club to spend and win titles.

They really need to limit contract moves or something, but that whole world is one gigantic crooked corporation. No little club will ever win -outside of a lucky run- when the big clubs just pick their bones clean of any budding talent.

The rules are very broken so big clubs can stay relevant. Should I call them clubs or corporations... lil corps
This sadly isn't just unique to England. I've seem some really promising Bundesliga teams get raided after a strong surprise year. Last year it was Stuttgart, this year it will probably be Mainz, Frankfurt, and maybe Werder Bremen. And this level of club is sunk if they can't hit a home run on replacing those lost players with their few transfers and will slide back to mid,/bottom-table for a bit.
 
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This sadly isn't just unique to England. I've seem some really promising Bundesliga teams get raided after a strong surprise year. Last year it was Stuttgart, this year it will probably be Mainz, Frankfurt, and maybe Werder Bremen. And this level of club is sunk if they can't hit a home run on replacing those lost players with their few transfers and will slide back to mid,/bottom-table for a bit.
I don't get why good players dont see more of a challenge in playing for these 'smaller' clubs and aiming to beat the big monster clubs. Instead they are content with a big club calling and they simply just go.
No way would, 'good player left for big club glory' beat out 'x, x, x and x, and so on players defied big club calls and formed a new contender in top leagues' etc...
I don't understand it at all.
And what gives me the biggest laugh when these players kiss their badge celebrating. pfft.
Something isn't right...
*money is an easy answer, but there has to be more to it.*
*more recognition to have a better shot at a national call...*
Has to be something else.
 
I don't get why good players dont see more of a challenge in playing for these 'smaller' clubs and aiming to beat the big monster clubs. Instead they are content with a big club calling and they simply just go.
No way would, 'good player left for big club glory' beat out 'x, x, x and x, and so on players defied big club calls and formed a new contender in top leagues' etc...
I don't understand it at all.
And what gives me the biggest laugh when these players kiss their badge celebrating. pfft.
Something isn't right...
*money is an easy answer, but there has to be more to it.*
*more recognition to have a better shot at a national call...*
Has to be something else.
I feel the same with managers as well. A few seasons back and Nagelsmann left a 2nd place RBL to go to Bayern, Marco Rose left a 8th place, but seemingly on the upswing, Gladbach for Dortmund, and Adi Hutter left a 5th place Frankfurt for Gladbach. It would be hard to pass down Bayern, and Nagelsmann's sacking was stupid, but it didn't really work out for any of the 3, and the clubs they left struggled to hold ground the next season.

I've heard it argued before, and there's definitely truth to it, that they (players and managers) may not ever have that chance to hit the big club and make that bag again, so it's almost a no-brainer they have to do it. For managers, also, especially a mid-tier club, if you have success your roster is getting poached, or you'll be trying to stretch that squad across multiple competitions and slides in the standings (and pressure and termination) are almost inevitable.
 
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I don't get why good players dont see more of a challenge in playing for these 'smaller' clubs and aiming to beat the big monster clubs. Instead they are content with a big club calling and they simply just go.
Sometimes I wonder if players think they are in a 'one season wonder' with their clubs. They have front row seats to everything, maybe they don't believe its sustainable. It's great to be part of X Club that is punching above its weight but we may have reached our peak and next year could be far worse. Might as well cash in on the move while you can.
 
That first 1990 final match was amazing. Replay not so much. What a sub performance by Ian Wright, really changed his career.


Some nice details about the sides (Wikipedia):

-This was the first time Crystal Palace had appeared in an FA Cup final, and they had just completed their first season back in the top flight after nearly a decade away

-The 1990 Crystal Palace team was the last all-English team to play in an FA Cup final, while the Manchester United team was the last team to be composed solely of players from the United Kingdom to win the FA Cup final.

-Manchester United did not play a single home game during their successful FA Cup campaign – this is the only time this has happened in the history of the FA Cup

-The month before the final, Uefa had announced that the ban on English clubs in European competitions would be lifted for the 1990–91 season

-It also proved to be the turning point in Manchester United's history after a few lean seasons; over the next 20 years they collected a total of more than 20 major trophies

Wright was electrifying - I can't recall the exact story about why he was on the bench. Either he'd only just returned from injury after a long absence, or he was nursing a niggle.

What has just come back to me is that 1990 marked a historic moment in TV coverage. Both semis were played on a Sunday for the first time and both were shown live on TV. I watched all four and a bit hours of play live at my maternal grandparents' home on their little portable TV in the kitchen: 13 goals and about half a dozen changes of lead.

(Nostalgic digression - my grandparents' home was a terraced 2-bedroom house in a County Durham village. My grandad was a good man, rest his soul, but stubborn as a goat, which meant the original coal fire remained in place in spite of my parents' entreaties that it should be replaced with modern heating. The outdoor toilet was still in use too, though, happily, only as an emergency backup if the indoor loo failed. It was in that house on some afternoon in the mid 80s that I first encountered ice hockey. I was so inspired by what I saw on the telly that I grabbed a tennis ball and one of my granddad's walking sticks, then placed the lightweight fire guard in the middle of the floor for a goal to shoot into. The role of goaltender Moray Hanson was performed by a shoe placed across the length of the goal line.)

Back to football. It's worth noting that while the ban on most English clubs was lifted, there was one exception - league winners Liverpool. (The draconian bans doled out to the English for off-field violence were of a length unparalleled before or since in European football history. Let there be no doubt - this severity reflected that the English had reached extremes of terrace violence unknown elsewhere. Cynically exploiting the tragedy of Heysel to stop English teams winning European prizes was absolutely the furthest thing from the minds of any officials involved in fixing the punishment).

(And in 90/91, European football retained the same registration rules surrounding non-English players in English teams as had applied in 84/85, the last season before the ban. But by a coincidence that I'm sure was as pure as the driven snow, no sooner did Man U win the Cup Winners' Cup and the ban on Liverpool expire than in came new restrictions on how many Scottish, Welsh and Irish players English clubs could use in a game).
 
I don't get why good players dont see more of a challenge in playing for these 'smaller' clubs and aiming to beat the big monster clubs. Instead they are content with a big club calling and they simply just go.
No way would, 'good player left for big club glory' beat out 'x, x, x and x, and so on players defied big club calls and formed a new contender in top leagues' etc...
I don't understand it at all.
And what gives me the biggest laugh when these players kiss their badge celebrating. pfft.
Something isn't right...
*money is an easy answer, but there has to be more to it.*
*more recognition to have a better shot at a national call...*
Has to be something else.

'More recognition' in various forms covers it. The media relentlessly markets the idea that the Champions League is the pinnacle of club football. Little surprise, then, that players who are competitive by nature (you have to be a fierce competitor just to earn a professional contract) tend to leap at the first opportunity to either play in that competition or make a move that they think will hasten their path to it. To say nothing of the financial rewards that may follow.

Remember, too, that while a player may not consider money their God, their competitiveness can be piqued on that score, too. Supposing player X earns £50,000 a week, but player Y earns £120,000 a week. Player X's agent will whisper in his ear, "You're a better player than player Y. It's an insult to you that he earns more than double your pay. Demand a raise - and if your club won't provide it, it means they don't value you. But fear not, I have on my speed dial someone who does. Someone who will pay £150,000 a week to prove it."

Throw in the fact that some players have been known to taunt opponents during games by declaring how much more money than them they earn. Then consider the culture of consumption that so many footballers' wives and girlfriends immerse themselves in. A short career feels even shorter if your squeeze can't possibly be expected to survive without £10,000 a week pocket money for the rest of her life or whatever.

All of this against the backdrop of a hyper-materialistic society addicted to using statistics generally and statistics about money in particular to measure value. A society in which the public flaunting of symbols associated with success is all-pervasive. A society addicted to dividing people into winners and losers. Where medal counts are often used to settle arguments about whether one player is superior to another.

Also, a society where non-entities remorselessly seek to ram sports people's disappointments down their throats. Where fat, ugly, dirty, sweaty, sub-literate, weaselly, sneering, racist, coward substance addled fans will hoist their quadruple chins and slack jaws off the deck long enough to serenade a player as a loser on the grounds that their far richer club is beating his, even though his individual ability may be equal or superior to every single player he is opposing today. And they'll film themselves while doing it, then post it on social media in the hope that other dismal leeches praise them. Then they'll send the player the link - throwing in a few insults. Racist insults if the player isn't white, because one must observe the appropriate etiquette.

You'd need the temperament of a saint to resist the temptation to take the money, carve a path of revenge against everyone who ever slighted you and retreat to a mansion with hundred foot high gates and a world-class security system as insurance against the two-legged vermin.
 
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'More recognition' in various forms covers it. The media relentlessly markets the idea that the Champions League is the pinnacle of club football. Little surprise, then, that players who are competitive by nature (you have to be a fierce competitor just to earn a professional contract) tend to leap at the first opportunity to either play in that competition or make a move that they think will hasten their path to it. To say nothing of the financial rewards that may follow.

Remember, too, that while a player may not consider money their God, their competitiveness can be piqued on that score, too. Supposing player X earns £50,000 a week, but player Y earns £120,000 a week. Player X's agent will whisper in his ear, "You're a better player than player Y. It's an insult to you that he earns more than double your pay. Demand a raise - and if your club won't provide it, it means they don't value you. But fear not, I have on my speed dial someone who does. Someone who will pay £150,000 a week to prove it."

Throw in the fact that some players have been known to taunt opponents during games by declaring how much more money than them they earn. Then consider the culture of consumption that so many footballers' wives and girlfriends immerse themselves in. A short career feels even shorter if your squeeze can't possibly be expected to survive without £10,000 a week pocket money for the rest of her life or whatever.

All of this against the backdrop of a hyper-materialistic society addicted to using statistics generally and statistics about money in particular to measure value. A society in which the public flaunting of symbols associated with success is all-pervasive. A society addicted to dividing people into winners and losers. Where medal counts are often used to settle arguments about whether one player is superior to another.

Also, a society where non-entities remorselessly seek to ram sports people's disappointments down their throats. Where fat, ugly, dirty, sweaty, sub-literate, weaselly, sneering, racist, coward substance addled fans will hoist their quadruple chins and slack jaws off the deck long enough to serenade a player as a loser on the grounds that their far richer club is beating his, even though his individual ability may be equal or superior to every single player he is opposing today. And they'll film themselves while doing it, then post it on social media in the hope that other dismal leeches praise them. Then they'll send the player the link - throwing in a few insults. Racist insults if the player isn't white, because one must observe the appropriate etiquette.

You'd need the temperament of a saint to resist the temptation to take the money, carve a path of revenge against everyone who ever slighted you and retreat to a mansion with hundred foot high gates and a world-class security system as insurance against the two-legged vermin.
I like you, you should post here more often.
 
'More recognition' in various forms covers it. The media relentlessly markets the idea that the Champions League is the pinnacle of club football. Little surprise, then, that players who are competitive by nature (you have to be a fierce competitor just to earn a professional contract) tend to leap at the first opportunity to either play in that competition or make a move that they think will hasten their path to it. To say nothing of the financial rewards that may follow.
I don't have too much time now, so I'll respond to just this bit.
It's absolutely true because they keep bringing up the point that 'will Cole Palmer leave Chelsea if they fail to qualify for champions league -- something or other that he doesn't have a champions league clause built into his contract (ie he can leave if they do not qualify).
Even Wilfred Zaha left Crystal Palace to play champions league with Galatasaray. (said he only wanted to play for a club in the CL. (this was what, 2-3 years back, but just an example).
And yes the champions league is a big thing, the viewer ratings for champions league matches are through the ceiling. --- But not every game... the little / low chance clubs are still peanuts compared to the big matches.
 
I think people forget that quite often the 'small club' that young stars start out with aren't their hometown clubs either. They're usually the regional big dogs in their area that tend to consolidate the talent from the smaller clubs in the surrounding towns and villages. For an American fan for whom the BuLi is a self-contained entity an SC Freiburg might be a 'small club' but compared to pretty much every club in SW Baden it's a giant. And the reason kids join the academies of those clubs is the same they later move on to Bayern or Arsenal or PSG - career advancement.

But I think that goes beyond money and the big mansion, I think it goes to what you dream about as a kid too. Let's not act like there's no mystique to a Real Madrid, Liverpool, Bayern or Juventus. Like those aren't the teams whose stars you worship as a young kid playing football and who you seek to emulate. If I had made it as a footballer I obviously would have liked to play for a famous club wearing a famous kit in a massive stadium in front of a massive crowd of supporters. Probably not Bayern because I legitimately detested them, but Real or Inter or United? Yeah no way I'd be saying no to those clubs.
 
I think people forget that quite often the 'small club' that young stars start out with aren't their hometown clubs either. They're usually the regional big dogs in their area that tend to consolidate the talent from the smaller clubs in the surrounding towns and villages. For an American fan for whom the BuLi is a self-contained entity an SC Freiburg might be a 'small club' but compared to pretty much every club in SW Baden it's a giant. And the reason kids join the academies of those clubs is the same they later move on to Bayern or Arsenal or PSG - career advancement.

But I think that goes beyond money and the big mansion, I think it goes to what you dream about as a kid too. Let's not act like there's no mystique to a Real Madrid, Liverpool, Bayern or Juventus. Like those aren't the teams whose stars you worship as a young kid playing football and who you seek to emulate. If I had made it as a footballer I obviously would have liked to play for a famous club wearing a famous kit in a massive stadium in front of a massive crowd of supporters. Probably not Bayern because I legitimately detested them, but Real or Inter or United? Yeah no way I'd be saying no to those clubs.

This isn't surprising though, we all know you're a wh*re :sarcasm:
 
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I don't have too much time now, so I'll respond to just this bit.
It's absolutely true because they keep bringing up the point that 'will Cole Palmer leave Chelsea if they fail to qualify for champions league --
Cole Palmer is the Elias Petterson of the prem right now. Another dud today
 
The point is to survive and establish yourself from there, so that fans can enjoy watching their team in the first division and perhaps, europe.

What is the point of rooting for a club that can just buy success?
You say that, yet most international fans are bandwagons. They do, in fact, just support the teams that buy success: Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Man City, Liverpool, Inter, etc.
 
The point is to survive and establish yourself from there, so that fans can enjoy watching their team in the first division and perhaps, europe.

What is the point of rooting for a club that can just buy success?
I think OP meant what's the point of promotion if smaller teams literally can't compete in the highest level? The point is to climb and establish yourself, build from there, and compete for a title. The sad reality is that doesn't happen 99% of the time. Teams that get promoted almost always go back down soon after, mid teams stay in the middle, and the same old elite clubs take the titles. Unless a team gets swept up by a government, like Man City or PSG, you have a near-zero percent chance of ever winning. Only 1 team outside the Big 6 has won the past 30 years!

I agree. Support a team trying to succeed the genuine way, but changes must happen to allow smaller clubs to compete like before the the 90s and big TV contracts.
 
So.... every team should win the championship?
It's a bit of a life lesson here.... there are winners.... and there are..... lo........sers.
Not everyone no matter how hard you try will ever be successful... Where is Ray at? Just the way she goes...
iu
Of course not every team can win, but it should be a level playing field. Teams should be reward for hard work. Imagine you got the best grades, but a prestigious Ivy league school rejected you over someone who just paid to have better grades than you? You'd feel cheated.

That's the state of many European football leagues. It's all about money. You have to buy titles. If you can't spend with the big boys, it doesn't matter how hard you try. Those elite clubs spend $150, $200, even $300 million to build teams that can't lose. It's an impossible climb for smaller clubs. It's an unfair playing field. You can climb to point, but you'll eventually hit a paywall, get your best players stolen, and go back down. It's why in 30 years only 1 team outside the Big 6 has won the PL. It's why Bundesliga, Serie A, and La Liga are won by the same 1-4 teams. This is a big reason why many hockey, american football, and rugby leagues have implemented salary caps. It removed the financial element and hard work gets rewarded. Good scouting, coaching, tactics, management, and players determines the title. They can't be bought. That's why leagues like the NHL, NFL, Top 14, NRL, and AFL have such varied champions. The leagues are better for it.
 
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Of course not every team can win, but it should be a level playing field. Teams should be reward for hard work. Imagine you got the best grades, but a prestigious Ivy league school rejected you over someone who just paid to have better grades than you? You'd feel cheated.

That's the state of many European football leagues. It's all about money. You have to buy titles. If you can't spend with the big boys, it doesn't matter how hard you try. Those elite clubs spend $150, $200, even $300 million to build teams that can't lose. It's an impossible climb for smaller clubs. It's an unfair playing field. You can climb to point, but you'll eventually hit a paywall, get your best players stolen, and go back down. It's why in 30 years only 1 team outside the Big 6 has won the PL. It's why Bundesliga, Serie A, and La Liga are won by the same 1-4 teams. This is a big reason why many hockey, american football, and rugby leagues have implemented salary caps. It removed the financial element and hard work gets rewarded. Good scouting, coaching, tactics, management, and players determines the title. They can't be bought. That's why leagues like the NHL, NFL, Top 14, NRL, and AFL have such varied champions. The leagues are better for it.
I suppose if those big name super star players (lets just say for easy conversation, they are all on their respective national teams) all stay in their own countries... that would be key to teams not buying success... and you have to figure all of those players would say at some point, why can't we play together in our league, AND national... outside of usual conflicting attitudes not all will comply...
My point is money or not, but obviously more with money good players will eventually given time and recruiting and cash prizes for trophies, etc... all good players would end up on good teams so it is inherently impossible for a fair shake at anything.
But I do completely agree... buy trophies... and the worst part is people love it. They love to love it, even.
Hell... I watch it.
:dunno:
 

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