Question about the 1997-98 Sabres

[Kristo]

Buffalo Sabres had very few players that were high in the regular season points race during DPE. Yet the team had some moderate success for a couple of seasons, especially during the first half of that period. During the 1997-98 regular season, the team leader in points was Miroslav Satan with only 46 points (!). And the Sabres made the playoffs with som margin (they had Hasek of course). It's worth nothing that Sabres had eight players with at least 34 points, so is was quite tight up in front.

Anyway, is this mark, 46 points, the lowest by a playoff-team in the modern NHL or are there even 'worse' examples?

I didn't watch NHL back in 1998 but even when taken into consideration that it was DPE, the Sabres didn't seem to have that much offensive talent. Would you say that they were the clearest example of a "defense first" team together with the Devils during that period?

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[Hobnobs]

Buffalo Sabres had very few players that were high in the regular season points race during DPE. Yet the team had some moderate success for a couple of seasons, especially during the first half of that period. During the 1997-98 regular season, the team leader in points was Miroslav Satan with only 46 points (!). And the Sabres made the playoffs with som margin (they had Hasek of course). It's worth nothing that Sabres had eight players with at least 34 points, so is was quite tight up in front.

Anyway, is this mark, 46 points, the lowest by a playoff-team in the modern NHL or are there even 'worse' examples?

I didn't watch NHL back in 1998 but even when taken into consideration that it was DPE, the Sabres didn't seem to have that much offensive talent. Would you say that they were the clearest example of a "defense first" team together with the Devils during that period?

98 sabres was an extremely defensive (although they did rely on an uptempo forechecking a lot) team and it should be noted that Satan didn't get much ice-time and nowhere near what would be considered 1st line minutes. And they rolled their lines pretty evenly with only Peca playing near 20 mins a game.

As for the question they are probably the worst. Shars made the playoff with Friesen (57pts) as their leading scorer. Generally the bottom teams top-5 scorers were in the 40s in points and they had one star player scoring more than that. Same with Sabres except that season when they didn't give Satan the ice-time to do so.

 

[GMR]

The Sabres were 17th in GPG and 20th on the powerplay. They were 3rd in GA but 18th in the PK, which is surprising.

1998 was the beginning of the dark ages in NHL scoring. There was a large drop in scoring from 1996 to 1997 and an even larger drop from 1997 to 1998.

It didn't help that Buffalo lacked a true top line threat. The Devils are a nice comparable around that time, though New Jersey eventually added firepower with Mogilny and Elias/Sykora developed into top line threats.

Outside of Satan, did the Sabres have any promising young offensive players in the late 90's?

 

[Hobnobs]

The Sabres were 17th in GPG and 20th on the powerplay. They were 3rd in GA but 18th in the PK, which is surprising.

1998 was the beginning of the dark ages in NHL scoring. There was a large drop in scoring from 1996 to 1997 and an even larger drop from 1997 to 1998.

It didn't help that Buffalo lacked a true top line threat. The Devils are a nice comparable around that time, though New Jersey eventually added firepower with Mogilny and Elias/Sykora developed into top line threats.

Outside of Satan, did the Sabres have any promising young offensive players in the late 90's?

Yes, Plante and Holzinger were seen as promising centers. Holzinger being compared to Yzerman.

They also had Erik Rasmussen (overhyped), Varada, Grosek, Wayne Primeau, Curtis Brown, Dawe, Barnaby (yes, he was promising back then) and Afinogenov.

 

[JianYang]

The Sabres had a very irritating team with guys like Barnaby, varada, grosek, and peca in the lineup.

They would get under your skin frequently, and the formula was working. 3rd round playoffs in 1998, and finalists in 1999.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Would you say that they were the clearest example of a "defense first" team together with the Devils during that period?

The 1996 Florida Panthers. Some referred to it as "The Rat Trap"...

 

[GMR]

Yes, Plante and Holzinger were seen as promising centers. Holzinger being compared to Yzerman.

They also had Erik Rasmussen (overhyped), Varada, Grosek, Wayne Primeau, Curtis Brown, Dawe, Barnaby (yes, he was promising back then) and Afinogenov.

I can see Afinogenov as a promising young forward but these other guys ended up as muckers and grinders.

Holzinger was a 6th round pick. How could he be compared to Yzerman?

Plante was an 8th rounder.

 

[Hobnobs]

I can see Afinogenov as a promising young forward but these other guys ended up as muckers and grinders.

Holzinger was a 6th round pick. How could he be compared to Yzerman?

Plante was an 8th rounder.

They were considered promising young forwards because how they progressed after the draft not because when they were drafted. Or do you not think Datsyuk was look upon as a promising young forward once he joined the red wings because he was only a 6th rounder?

 

[Davenport]

This was the general equation for the Sabres, from day one: Sabres plus sandpaper equals success. Look at the seasons where they are/were said to have over-achieved, those were the seasons where they were hard to play against. Season one - 1970-71 - Buffalo had four players with 100+ PIM, and Eddie Shack just missed with 93 PIM. As a result, they wound up with 63 points; better than 4 other teams (including their expansion cousins, the Canucks), and tying them with the Kings. In 1974-75, the Sabres were again very hard to play against - especially in their end of the ice.

 

[GMR]

They were considered promising young forwards because how they progressed after the draft not because when they were drafted. Or do you not think Datsyuk was look upon as a promising young forward once he joined the red wings because he was only a 6th rounder?

Fair enough but I don’t remember Holzinger or Plante as ever showing much offensive upside, unlike a Datsyuk.

 

[Hobnobs]

Fair enough but I don’t remember Holzinger or Plante as ever showing much offensive upside, unlike a Datsyuk.

Holzinger won the Hobey Baker and while he wasnt a rookie of the year candiadate in 96 for sure he had his breakut season in 97 with 51 points in 80 games. Two-way player whos future looked very bright but then started to regress again. Which is probably why you dont remember him being promising.

Drafted out of high school Derek Plante went on to win the Hobey Baker and was a two-way center who was in the calder race in his rookie season. Looked like a solid depth centerman (two 50+ point season in 96 and 97) who could play in all zones but regressed offensively in 98 and was traded to the Stars in 99 (scored the game tying goal in gm 6 vs the blues).

Both obviously didn't pan out but they were part of Sabres at the time exciting young core.

 

[Dale53130]

Holzinger won the Hobey Baker and while he wasnt a rookie of the year candiadate in 96 for sure he had his breakut season in 97 with 51 points in 80 games. Two-way player whos future looked very bright but then started to regress again. Which is probably why you dont remember him being promising.

Drafted out of high school Derek Plante went on to win the Hobey Baker and was a two-way center who was in the calder race in his rookie season. Looked like a solid depth centerman (two 50+ point season in 96 and 97) who could play in all zones but regressed offensively in 98 and was traded to the Stars in 99 (scored the game tying goal in gm 6 vs the blues).

Both obviously didn't pan out but they were part of Sabres at the time exciting young core.

I'm not doubting that you read it somewhere, but I can't see why Holzinger was being compared to (specifically) Yzerman of all people. Hollinger was 23 years old his rookie season, Yzerman was only 18. Yzerman didn't have the reputation of being a 2-way forward at a younger age; even if he may have been.

One played in the OHL, the other in the CCHA.

They're both 5'11" centers, with right-handed shots, so I guess there's that.

 

[reckoning]

They picked up Geoff Sanderson late in the season to give them some offensive help for the playoffs. Sanderson had 4 30+ goal seasons on his resume and was only 26. His output for the Sabres that year was 4 goals in 26 games, then 3 goals in 14 playoff games.

 

[The Pale King]

That Sabres squad swept the Canadiens in the playoffs that year, and I have to wonder if it led to a shift in the organization with them trying to copy that approach. They were fifth in GF in 97-98, but dropped to 26th the next two seasons (in a 27 and 28 team league).

Following the sweep, the Montreal Canadiens were led by a 44 point Mark Recchi in 98-99, then led by Martin Rucinski's 49 points the following year.

 

[MadLuke]

Following the sweep, the Montreal Canadiens were led by a 44 point Mark Recchi in 98-99, then led by Martin Rucinski's 49 points the following year.

I think it was more getting rid of Damphousse-Recchi to save money and Koivu-Brisebois being injured, but then why sign Linden 14 millions....

Maybe just long list of bad asset management and Koivu being injured, I am not sure with a difference coaching scheme how much more Rucinsky-Zholtok-Zubrus-Brunet-Savage-Corson at that point-Linden at that point score more, while missing so many games.

 

[buffalowing88]

98 sabres was an extremely defensive team and it should be noted that Satan didn't get much ice-time and nowhere near what would be considered 1st line minutes. And they rolled their lines pretty evenly with only Peca playing near 20 mins a game.

As for the question they are probably the worst. Shars made the playoff with Friesen (57pts) as their leading scorer. Generally the bottom teams top-5 scorers were in the 40s in points and they had one star player scoring more than that. Same with Sabres except that season when they didn't give Satan the ice-time to do so.

The jump in ice-time from 97-98 to 98-99 for Satan is remarkable. We knew we needed to score a bit more to get further ahead and Ruff started putting him out there 20 minutes a game.

I loved that 97-98 team. Holzinger was so fast, it's too bad he had zero awareness. Zhitnik deserved more Norris consideration that year, as well. Played nearly half the game and was a pain in the ass to anyone skating with their head down.

 

[Hobnobs]

The jump in ice-time from 97-98 to 98-99 for Satan is remarkable. We knew we needed to score a bit more to get further ahead and Ruff started putting him out there 20 minutes a game.

I loved that 97-98 team. Holzinger was so fast, it's too bad he had zero awareness. Zhitnik deserved more Norris consideration that year, as well. Played nearly half the game and was a pain in the ass to anyone skating with their head down.

Well, 98 is when Norris voters got it completely wrong (imo but Ive seen many agree) and I don't disagree with you that Zhitnik desereved more votes that year.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Would you say that they were the clearest example of a "defense first" team together with the Devils during that period?

Not really. They actually played a relatively up tempo game in those years because they had Hasek in net.

 

[JianYang]

That Sabres squad swept the Canadiens in the playoffs that year, and I have to wonder if it led to a shift in the organization with them trying to copy that approach. They were fifth in GF in 97-98, but dropped to 26th the next two seasons (in a 27 and 28 team league).

Following the sweep, the Montreal Canadiens were led by a 44 point Mark Recchi in 98-99, then led by Martin Rucinski's 49 points the following year.

I don't think that series really did anything to the Habs approach. It was a team at a crossroads where Andy moog just retired, and they had totally lost faith in Thibault who was shipped out during the 98/99 season. Corson had his final productive season in 97/98 while koivu continued to struggle staying healthy.

The team was losing, and the organization made the decision to start selling off their veteran guys like recchi and damphousse. Malakhov was booed out of town as well.

The decrease in goals was just a function of the team getting weaker.

 

[Crosby2010]

Let's face it, feisty and tenacious or not, the Sabres are a lottery team without Hasek. The Habs played the Sabres in the 1998 playoffs and Martin Rucinsky made the big mistake before the series of saying that the Sabres were just an "average" team without Hasek. He was wrong. They weren't even average. If anything he was generous. That seemed to pump up the Sabres as they swept them after that. But unless you were around it is hard to believe just how integral Hasek was to their success. They had enough guys to muck it up and keep the game close..............................so long as Hasek continually saved their bacon. And he did. He had 13 shutouts in 1998. The best season I have ever seen a goalie have was Hasek in 1998. He had that ability to play with your mind even before you stepped on the ice simply because he was intimidating to the point where you didn't know if you could score on him, at all. There has not been a goalie quite like that since. Not even close. Roy had that reputation too, and to a lesser extent Brodeur certainly would be able to elevate a team to higher ranking, but there is not a goalie that can get in the head of the other team quite like Hasek did and it is easy to forget this sometimes.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Fair enough but I don’t remember Holzinger or Plante as ever showing much offensive upside, unlike a Datsyuk.

i remember those guys as two different kinds of late 90s sabres forward archetypes

plante was a small, fairly one-dimensional skill guy, in the mould of randy burridge, who like plante was super fast, and donald audette, who had magic hands but lead feet

holzinger felt more like dixon ward, an offensive guy who reinvented himself as a checker (i always saw him as kind of a mirror of another hobey baker guy, scott pellerin)

there was a third kind of sabres forward from those years, the small guy with some hands who leveraged his speed to be a gritty defensive pest: jason dawe, stu barnes, curtis brown, led of course by peca

but no, other than audette, none of those guys had much beyond 50ish pt potential in the DPE. after the sabres transitioned away from the likes of audette and plante (who ironically went on to win a cup as a DNP on the 1999 dallas stars) satan was on an island.

 

[MadArcand]

Derek Plante was a 90's early release version of Derek Roy.

 

[Johnny Engine]

***** Plante was a *0's early release version of ***** Roy.

I kind of love this.