Quebec City trying to keep the flame alive

[mouser]

When MLB expands they set up a process, take applications and then pick. Same with the NFL when they added Jacksonville, Carolina, and then Houston.
Only the NHL just continually takes meetings and then says "ok sure. start a ticket drive and if you sell out we'll expand to your city"
I know the NBA sort of did that with Toronto and Vancouver and there are a few other exceptions like the revived Browns and Hornets but generally its not like this.

Notice that the NHL and NBA have both used this approach: leagues which can handle a single or odd number of expansion teams.

Whereas MLB and NFL have to expand in multiples of two teams for scheduling reasons.

 

[Jets4Life]

what team do people in QC usually cheer for?

The Canadiens.

 

[Jets4Life]

Not so sure if time is on their side either, it's the slowest growing of the 20 largest metropolitan areas in Canada.

That could change. We never know. In the 90s, Winnipeg was the slowest growing metro area in Canada. However, in the past 20 years, it has turned around and grown faster than most Canadian cities.

 

[aqib]

Notice that the NHL and NBA have both used this approach: leagues which can handle a single or odd number of expansion teams.

Whereas MLB and NFL have to expand in multiples of two teams for scheduling reasons.

The last 2 NFL teams were added one at a time. They had an odd number of teams for 3 years.

That being said the NFL's 1995 expansion was done after a long process where cities could apply. They announced expansion and then cities developed bids. At the start everyone thought St Louis and Baltimore were the favorites. While the Browns 2.0 were awarded in a special process (the city was guaranteed a team but expansion was only agreed to after several other cities got new stadiums using Cleveland as leverage), the Texans where added after a process where LA and Houston were both submitting proposals.

The NBA's late 80s expansions involved applications from multiple cities and presentations. Toronto was added after receiving interest from various groups in the city and Vancouver was paired with them when they expressed interest. But the next round I can guarantee there will be a process where many cities are given consideration. They won't just say "we're going to Vegas and Seattle" that's why they mention all these other cities. There are easily 6-7 markets that could support an NBA team. Its just a matter of how many rosters that could be filled out and not dilute the product (like it was in the 90s). So they will probably have some sort of process to vet those cities.

MLB 's 1993 expansion had applications from 10 cities and 1998 expansion had 9.

Just saying only the NHL starts from the end and works backwards.

 

[GKJ]

The last 2 NFL teams were added one at a time. They had an odd number of teams for 3 years.

That being said the NFL's 1995 expansion was done after a long process where cities could apply. They announced expansion and then cities developed bids. At the start everyone thought St Louis and Baltimore were the favorites. While the Browns 2.0 were awarded in a special process (the city was guaranteed a team but expansion was only agreed to after several other cities got new stadiums using Cleveland as leverage), the Texans where added after a process where LA and Houston were both submitting proposals.

The NBA's late 80s expansions involved applications from multiple cities and presentations. Toronto was added after receiving interest from various groups in the city and Vancouver was paired with them when they expressed interest. But the next round I can guarantee there will be a process where many cities are given consideration. They won't just say "we're going to Vegas and Seattle" that's why they mention all these other cities. There are easily 6-7 markets that could support an NBA team. Its just a matter of how many rosters that could be filled out and not dilute the product (like it was in the 90s). So they will probably have some sort of process to vet those cities.

MLB 's 1993 expansion had applications from 10 cities and 1998 expansion had 9.

Just saying only the NHL starts from the end and works backwards.

The NFL having an odd number of teams was not a practical situation, they dealt with it as a settlement with the city of Cleveland and nothing more.

 

[FerrisRox]

Quebec just have to hope that a person who likes Quebec becomes commissioner after Bettman dies.

Bettman doesn't even get a vote on where Expansion Teams might go so I'm not sure what his health has to do with anything.

People don't seem to understand that Gary Bettman works for the Board of Governors and Bettman has no autonomy at all.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Bettman doesn't even get a vote on where Expansion Teams might go so I'm not sure what his health has to do with anything.

People don't seem to understand that Gary Bettman works for the Board of Governors and Bettman has not autonomy at all.

I mean you're right, but you're also wrong.

Yes, Gary Bettman works for the owners.

But Gary Bettman has been Commissioner for 30+ years now. He's been in that role for longer than almost all the current owners. Doing a quick run through only 5 franchises have had the same ownership since before Bettman took over (and even then some have turned over generationally). So Gary Bettman "knows where the bodies are buried". Most ownership owe Bettman to one extent or another the fact they even got to own their teams.

Bettman still has a ton of pull.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The Canadiens.

In Quebec City? Very few people over 30 do.

Under, yeah.

 

[aqib]

The NFL having an odd number of teams was not a practical situation, they dealt with it as a settlement with the city of Cleveland and nothing more.

I know the situation I was a Browns fan for over 30 years until they traded for Watson. My point still remains that with rare exceptions the other leagues don"t do their expansion process with the outcome already decided.
San Jose was created because the Gunds wanted to be there instead of Minnesota. The Panthers and Ducks were out of the blue as well.

 

[dj4aces]

Now they are talking to Salt Lake City even though there is technically no process going on. You don't hear the NFL taking meetings with San Antonio or Portland (or whoever) when there is no expansion process going on.

I forget exactly where I saw it, but I remember seeing something earlier this year about the potential of expansion, and that some owners want the Coyotes thing settled, one way or another, before they start talking about adding more teams. Given that, and the fact the league is talking to Smith in SLC, the two kinda add up, no? It's like the owners have told Bettman he can't have any dessert until he finishes dinner.

 

[Jets4Life]

I mean you're right, but you're also wrong.

Yes, Gary Bettman works for the owners.

But Gary Bettman has been Commissioner for 30+ years now. He's been in that role for longer than almost all the current owners. Doing a quick run through only 5 franchises have had the same ownership since before Bettman took over (and even then some have turned over generationally). So Gary Bettman "knows where the bodies are buried". Most ownership owe Bettman to one extent or another the fact they even got to own their teams.

Bettman still has a ton of pull.

Bettman works for the owners, and does what is in their best interest. How is he wrong?

It's not like the new crop of owners in the NHL have departed radically from their predecessors. When it comes to expansion, and placing teams in markets, the owners have always done what would allow them to maximise their revenue. Quebec City clearly does not fir that bill. In Winnipeg's case, they were extremely lucky to lure a team away, and the only reason it happened is that Atlanta had no place to play, there was no ownership group in the area that was committed to building a new arena, or purchasing the club, and most importantly, outright folding the franchise would have negatively affected franchise values.

There may be a time in the future where it is optimal for the Nordiques to return. Unfortunately, it does not appear to be anytime in the immediate future.

 

[Dynamite Kid]

Bettman works for the owners, and does what is in their best interest. How is he wrong?

It's not like the new crop of owners in the NHL have departed radically from their predecessors. When it comes to expansion, and placing teams in markets, the owners have always done what would allow them to maximise their revenue. Quebec City clearly does not fir that bill. In Winnipeg's case, they were extremely lucky to lure a team away, and the only reason it happened is that Atlanta had no place to play, there was no ownership group in the area that was committed to building a new arena, or purchasing the club, and most importantly, outright folding the franchise would have negatively affected franchise values.

There may be a time in the future where it is optimal for the Nordiques to return. Unfortunately, it does not appear to be anytime in the immediate future.

Are you saying the Coyotes move to Quebec would not "maximize their revenue"? Didn't Bettman say the Coyote's have lost 30 million a season?

 

[ForsbergForever]

Looks like the Quebec government shelling out $7M in public funds for the LA Kings is turning into quite the political firestorm...

Québec solidaire will ask auditor general to investigate L.A. Kings visit

“It’s concerning when the government starts fiddling with public funds on the whim of the Premier who really likes hockey," Vincent Marissal said.

www.google.com

Quebec government slammed for subsidizing L.A. Kings pre-season games in Quebec City - Montreal | Globalnews.ca

The Quebec government is facing backlash for subsidizing two L.A. Kings NHL preseason games in Quebec City for between five and seven million dollars.

www.google.com

 

[TheLegend]

Are you saying the Coyotes move to Quebec would not "maximize their revenue"? Didn't Bettman say the Coyote's have lost 30 million a season?

He’s saying they wouldn’t…. period. Because are other locations on the NHL radar that would do better.

And Bettman would never say straight out how much a team loses.

 

[BMN]

Are you saying the Coyotes move to Quebec would not "maximize their revenue"? Didn't Bettman say the Coyotes have lost 30 million a season?

One thing fans/observers have to realize is there is a subtle yet important difference between "What location would make ITS owner wealthier?" vs. "What location would make ALL the owners wealthier?"

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Are you saying the Coyotes move to Quebec would not "maximize their revenue"? Didn't Bettman say the Coyote's have lost 30 million a season?

Clearly not, as they don't have a team. Next.

 

[Doctor Coffin]

There's a 4-letter French word used to describe how our provincial government acted there. That word is "Cocu". The English equivalent is 7-letter long.

Thought maybe you were going to say "a five-letter French word that rhymes with 'fared.'"

 

[GKJ]

Looks like the Quebec government shelling out $7M in public funds for the LA Kings is turning into quite the political firestorm...

Québec solidaire will ask auditor general to investigate L.A. Kings visit

“It’s concerning when the government starts fiddling with public funds on the whim of the Premier who really likes hockey," Vincent Marissal said.

www.google.com

Quebec government slammed for subsidizing L.A. Kings pre-season games in Quebec City - Montreal | Globalnews.ca

The Quebec government is facing backlash for subsidizing two L.A. Kings NHL preseason games in Quebec City for between five and seven million dollars.

www.google.com

In the world of city and local politics, to put any focus on $7m like this, and I’m speaking of the media, just can’t imagine the levels of indignation going on there. I’m sure they’re wasting that money regularly on things far more ridiculous.

 

[TheLegend]

In the world of city and local politics, to put any focus on $7m like this, and I’m speaking of the media, just can’t imagine the levels of indignation going on there. I’m sure they’re wasting that money regularly on things far more ridiculous.

For context... The Quebec Province budget is $148 billion.

Quebec budget 2023-2024: Here are the highlights

Here are the highlights of the Quebec budget.

montreal.ctvnews.ca

 

[Jets4Life]

Are you saying the Coyotes move to Quebec would not "maximize their revenue"? Didn't Bettman say the Coyote's have lost 30 million a season?

No, a Coyotes move to Quebec would not "maximize revenue.' For one thing, if the Coyotes moved to Quebec, Detroit and Columbus would try to veto the move, considering one of the teams would have to move back to the Western Conference (each team is dead set against this).

Most importantly, Houston and Salt Lake City have expressed a strong desire to land an NHL team. The market size in either of those cities is far larger than Quebec, and is more appealing in terms of US TV contracts, and what not.

 

[LPHabsFan]

In the world of city and local politics, to put any focus on $7m like this, and I’m speaking of the media, just can’t imagine the levels of indignation going on there. I’m sure they’re wasting that money regularly on things far more ridiculous.

For context... The Quebec Province budget is $148 billion.

Quebec budget 2023-2024: Here are the highlights

Here are the highlights of the Quebec budget.

montreal.ctvnews.ca

The reason there is so much focus on it has less to do with the actual dollar amount and more to do with other things going on in the province.

Right now, pretty much all public sector workers are in various stages of striking over how negotiations have gone. So while the Quebec government is offering people like teachers and nurses a 10.3% raise over 5 years, they gave themselves a 30% raise and are giving 7ish million to fund this which will also be a money loser.

Especially when they could have had Habs games for free and actually make some money along with other similar games not requiring provinces to pay to have teams there.

 

[Garbageyuk]

As long as Bettman is around, QC has zero chance of getting another NHL team.

 

[Burke the Legend]

In the world of city and local politics, to put any focus on $7m like this, and I’m speaking of the media, just can’t imagine the levels of indignation going on there. I’m sure they’re wasting that money regularly on things far more ridiculous.

Anything that focuses a spotlight on govt waste large or small is not a terrible thing.

 

[BlueSeal]

I’d rather the Yotes be in QC than Arizona at this point.

 

[GKJ]

Anything that focuses a spotlight on govt waste large or small is not a terrible thing.

It’s not, you’re right, and I don’t know the city either. Cities paying to bring in events is becoming more of a thing, they probably paid similar to get WWE to air TV from there, because it’s really an investment. When the day comes, I don’t think active will think about it.