GDT: Quarterfinal: Germany vs. Switzerland

[EHCler]

Great and well deserved win. The DEL and German hockey is definatly underrated by now, especially depth really improved and despite missing a lot of players we can ice 4 competitive lines.
We surely do not have the flashiest of teams but a team where everyone has to and can contribute. Against Austria Kreis benched Peterka for most of the third period, with a positive effekt. Small things work as well not being outscated and outbullied even by bigger hockey nations really helps. The NHL players which did show up are also playing 100% hockey. Sturm is really leading by example.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

What a great thing to come home to. I’m ecstatic right now.

 

[ijuka]

Kind of funny how Switzerland gets hyped up over the course of th tournament as the favorites and then they go ahead and ose to Germany.

Of course, Germany isn't a bad team - better than Finland for example - but Switzerland should easily have been able to defeat them. I guess they got cocky and were already looking forward to the semis.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Wow - we could medal. That would be huge for us.

We’re competitive at the top division - it’s the younger divisions that need a lot of help from the DEB.

 

[WarriorofTime]

when Czechoslovakia broke up, Slovakia was given no favors. We were relegated to pool C (or Division IB in today's lingo) and we had to spend 2 years getting back where we belonged (in all age categories). And we didn't even have to invade another country to get that kind of treatment.

Slovakia wasn't getting "punished" they were just a new nation, it was the same thing with the ex-Soviet nations. Russia inherited their stuff, and the others had to earn their way up. Surely you don't think Moldova and Tajikistan should have been placed in the top group? It's a bit unfortunate, but there was no other good way to do it considering most Czechoslovakian players were from the Czech side of things.

I don't really see the comparison. Russia is a relatively strong hockey country and certainly worthy of playing in the top division.

 

[vlady]

Slovakia wasn't getting "punished" they were just a new nation, it was the same thing with the ex-Soviet nations. Russia inherited their stuff, and the others had to earn their way up. Surely you don't think Moldova and Tajikistan should have been placed in the top group? It's a bit unfortunate, but there was no other good way to do it considering most Czechoslovakian players were from the Czech side of things.

I don't really see the comparison. Russia is a relatively strong hockey country and certainly worthy of playing in the top division.

did I say Slovakia was getting punished? You missed my point entirely.

 

[WarriorofTime]

did I say Slovakia was getting punished? You missed my point entirely.

Your point is that you want Russia to get pushed down while they are banned so that they are in the 3rd division or whatever by the time they come back. I am saying that is not likely or "fair"

 

[Czechboy]

It's weird but I feel like that, on a best on best, we could upset anyone.

We seem so much better as an underdog. When we are favorite, it seems that we loose our soul. Very weird feeling, but that's the way it is.

I think you, us, Germany, Slovakia and Denmark today could beat anyone in a best on best. Wouldn't be a shock. I just don't think any of us could win gold today.
No such thing as an easy draw for us... Eg. We upset Canada in quarter
.. amazing! Bring on Sweden, Finland or america next.lol. We would have to beat 3 of the big 4 for gold.

We can piss off the big boys though!

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

When I see Germany plays Switzerland I always think Germany has a chance. The Swiss get carried away when they have a good team and start getting cocky. Germans do best when facing the odds, and the Swiss always have enough weak spots to make it a realistic win chance.

 

[vlady]

Your point is that you want Russia to get pushed down while they are banned so that they are in the 3rd division or whatever by the time they come back. I am saying that is not likely or "fair"

nope, never said that

 

[Hanji]

nope, never said that

Then what is your point exactly?

We all want what's best for the game, and relegating Russia (when they are deemed fit to return) to a tier far below their talent level is just bad for international hockey.
Kucherov, Kaprizov, Vasilevsky and co. steamrolling over the Hungary and Italys of the game serves no purpose.

 

[Albatros]

Your point is that you want Russia to get pushed down while they are banned so that they are in the 3rd division or whatever by the time they come back. I am saying that is not likely or "fair"

That's not what was said, but that Russia should not gain IIHF ranking points while banned.

Then what is your point exactly?

We all want what's best for the game, and relegating Russia (when they are deemed fit to return) to a tier far below their talent level is just bad for international hockey.
Kucherov, Kaprizov, Vasilevsky and co. steamrolling over the Hungary and Italys of the game serves no purpose.

Italy will qualify automatically as hosts next time, Hungary would surely prefer the potentially higher category as well – and would fully deserve it based on the points they've earned like any other team. Russia has earned 0 points this and last year and their ranking should reflect that. Surely participating in the qualifying instead of Slovakia or some other team is not a problem if they're so good.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That's not what was said, but that Russia should not gain IIHF ranking points while banned.

Italy will qualify automatically as hosts next time, Hungary would surely prefer the potentially higher category as well – and would fully deserve it based on the points they've earned like any other team. Russia has earned 0 points this and last year and their ranking should reflect that. Surely participating in the qualifying instead of Slovakia or some other team is not a problem if they're so good.

They aren't "gaining" rank, they're just remaining static.

• As approved at the 2022 IIHF Annual Congress, Russia and Belarus would return to the categories and divisions in which they were originally placed prior to the Council decision. The men’s senior category with RUS/BLR in the top division would be seeded according to the IIHF Men’s World Ranking, women’s senior and U18 with RUS in the top division, men’s U20 and U18 with RUS/BLR in the top division according to the IIHF Sport Regulations.

IIHF - Championship updates

Tournaments assigned, three-year contract signed with China for Women’s Worlds Division IA

www.iihf.com

It is only logical, they aren't playing so they should be treated as neither winning or losing.

 

[Albatros]

They aren't "gaining" rank, they're just remaining static.

IIHF - Championship updates

Tournaments assigned, three-year contract signed with China for Women’s Worlds Division IA

www.iihf.com

It is only logical, they aren't playing so they should be treated as neither winning or losing.

If Russia wouldn’t be gaining or losing they should have the same 3050 points they had in 2021. Yet they're gaining as if they won a medal every year.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Good luck, Germany! Well deserved.

 

[Czechboy]

Kind of funny how Switzerland gets hyped up over the course of th tournament as the favorites and then they go ahead and ose to Germany.

Of course, Germany isn't a bad team - better than Finland for example - but Switzerland should easily have been able to defeat them. I guess they got cocky and were already looking forward to the semis.

Resting their top guys like they were Canada at the world Juniors or Germany in soccer rubbed me the wrong way tbh. And not because it eliminated Slovakia. I have no sour grapes about it and am happy for Latvia... Damn near elated tbh.

It was a weird flex you don't see often from a nation with not many medals in the last couple of decades. I'd question the czechs I'd they did it too as we have had even less success.

I would've been happy if they won gold to be honest though. May have had zero impact on today but it was an odd choice to me.

 

[jj cale]

Resting their top guys like they were Canada at the world Juniors or Germany in soccer rubbed me the wrong way tbh. And not because it eliminated Slovakia. I have no sour grapes about it and am happy for Latvia... Damn near elated tbh.

It was a weird flex you don't see often from a nation with not many medals in the last couple of decades. I'd question the czechs I'd they did it too as we have had even less success.

I would've been happy if they won gold to be honest though. May have had zero impact on today but it was an odd choice to me.

I questioned that move just based on messing with the vibe the team had been building.

 

[Hanji]

If Russia wouldn’t be gaining or losing they should have the same 3050 points they had in 2021. Yet they're gaining as if they won a medal every year.

If they remained at 3050 they'd be losing points. If they received more than 3935 they'd be gaining points; none of which is happening.
Russia is remaining static predicated on where they were relative to other teams before the the suspension.

This isn't brain surgery no matter how much you muddy the waters.

 

[Old Man Jags]

Resting their top guys like they were Canada at the world Juniors or Germany in soccer rubbed me the wrong way tbh. And not because it eliminated Slovakia. I have no sour grapes about it and am happy for Latvia... Damn near elated tbh.

It was a weird flex you don't see often from a nation with not many medals in the last couple of decades. I'd question the czechs I'd they did it too as we have had even less success.

I would've been happy if they won gold to be honest though. May have had zero impact on today but it was an odd choice to me.

I had absolutely no problem with the Swiss resting their best players to avoid injury or fatigue. It was up to them to know whether it would mess with their rhythm, but conceptually I think it’s not a problem.

It’s exactly what the Czechs did in football in Euro2004 when we had one of the best teams in the world, had won the group with one game to spare and then put an entire B team on the pitch against Germany in the final game to rest our players for the quarterfinals (literally a B team - 10 changes to the starting 11).

Of course, that Czech team was so good that we won against Germany even with the B team, and subsequently beat Denmark in the quarterfinals 3-0…

Regardless, my point is, it can be a sensible thing to do for many reasons if you don’t believe it will mess with the team’s rhythm.

I don’t accept Slovak criticisms of this move, it’s not Switzerland’s job to watch out for other teams’ interests. Slovakia needs to be grown-up about it and beat the likes of Kazakhstan and make the quarter finals without having to rely on others.

Also, it looked to me like Switzerland was doing their usual knockout stage choke job. Who knows why some of their top players did not perform - maybe it was not because they had been rested but because they simply choked like the rest of their team mates.

 

[swissexpert]

I questioned that move just based on messing with the vibe the team had been building.

Yeah it's always easier in retroperspective.
I was a bit suprised at the time since they talked about wanting the 'perfect quali'. But on the other hand, if they went full throttle against LAT and then chocked against GER, it would've been exactly like 2022 and everyone would critisise Fischer for not concentrating on the QF.

I personally think it was the right decision. Hischier played a 100 games in a very tough role, resting him for a game can't be the reason why they didn't perform.

The game was hard to watch, there was just no cohesion, no precision in their play, the complete opposite of what they have shown before. A mental issue.

 

[Albatros]

If they remained at 3050 they'd be losing points. If they received more than 3935 they'd be gaining points; none of which is happening.
Russia is remaining static predicated on where they were relative to other teams before the the suspension.

This isn't brain surgery no matter how much you muddy the waters.

If they were to be awarded automatic bronze medal points every year they'd eventually overtake Finland or Canada if they perform worse than that (as Finland has now done). Nothing static about that.

 

[PapaQ]

Resting their top guys like they were Canada at the world Juniors or Germany in soccer rubbed me the wrong way tbh. And not because it eliminated Slovakia. I have no sour grapes about it and am happy for Latvia... Damn near elated tbh.

It was a weird flex you don't see often from a nation with not many medals in the last couple of decades. I'd question the czechs I'd they did it too as we have had even less success.

I would've been happy if they won gold to be honest though. May have had zero impact on today but it was an odd choice to me.

Games like that don't belong to the competition. I am glad that the team who actually showed up to that game ended up winning and eventually advancing to the semi-finals (I am saying this as a fan of Slovakia).
From the mental strength perspective, I don't think a dull loss at the end of the group stage is worth it vs. some of the players having a spa day.

 

[Hanji]

If they were to be awarded automatic bronze medal points every year they'd eventually overtake Finland or Canada if they perform worse than that (as Finland has now done). Nothing static about that.

It's very static because Russia is right where they should be predicated on past performances.
This holds valid even when we look beyond the current 4-year point count. Russia has the most medals of anybody the past 10 years.

If Canada or Finland are overtaken it's their own fault; especially considering the competition level is worse with Russia suspended. Russia's suspension presents and advantage for teams. Its easier to medal with one of the Big 6 not participating.

 

[Albatros]

It's very static because Russia is right where they should be predicated on past performances.
This holds valid even when we look beyond the current 4-year point count. Russia has the most medals of anybody the past 10 years.

If Canada or Finland are overtaken it's their own fault; especially considering the competition level is worse with Russia suspended. Russia's suspension presents and advantage for teams. Its easier to medal with one of the Big 6 not participating.

Given that their actual four latest World Championship finishes were 3rd, 6th, 3rd & 5th it's very generous to assume that they would have finished 3rd and award points as if they did. And that already before considering that getting banned was the result of their own actions.

Besides it's Canada before Finland that has the most medals of anybody the past 10 years.

 

[jj cale]

Yeah it's always easier in retroperspective.
I was a bit suprised at the time since they talked about wanting the 'perfect quali'. But on the other hand, if they went full throttle against LAT and then chocked against GER, it would've been exactly like 2022 and everyone would critisise Fischer for not concentrating on the QF.

I personally think it was the right decision. Hischier played a 100 games in a very tough role, resting him for a game can't be the reason why they didn't perform.

The game was hard to watch, there was just no cohesion, no precision in their play, the complete opposite of what they have shown before. A mental issue.

Good point, kind of a no win situation for Fischer.