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GDT: Quarterfinal • Jan. 2 • USA vs. Russia • II [MOD #571]

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Karl Eriksson said:
Denmark wins for the first time ever in WJHC history....and celebrates. I think that might be a bigger cause for celebration than a legit hockey country like Russia outing the US in the quarters.
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Where can I see the manual on when it is permissible to celebrate and what is the right amount?
 
They are kids, some of whom just won the most meaningful game of their young careers. Who cares if they celebrate. Its one thing to criticize NHL players who are pros, let the kids have fun and celebrate a big win.
 
Still hard to believe that the US lost in the QF and are out. I thought they were a definite top 3 team going into this tournament. However- in an one game showdown, a hot goalie is all that is needed, and i thought the Russian Goalie was the difference in the game. US never could get in a roll in the first period with their five straight minor penalties.

These things happen. I think the Americans will bounce back next year with 12 returning players to pick from. Same thing happened to Canada in 1998 when they lost to Russia in the QF, and losing to Kazakhstan in the 7th place game, when they were mentioned as favourites for the Gold.
 
BlitzSnipe said:
kudos for an informative post. Finally someone who doesn't make up data and follow subjective impressions. Russia is a good team, no team would like to play them in the quarters or semis, so there you go. We'll see how they'll do in the rematch against the Swedes.
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Hmmm...Go back to 2010, and USA has 2 World Junior Golds, plus considerably more success than Russia at the U18 level. Now you could argue that this is a product of hothousing NTDP guys, still you can't really argue with success. In recent years, USA's junior program doesn't take a backseat to anybody ( and I'm Canuck )

In that quarter final contest, and in the previous year, USA seemed to get emotionally discombobulated vs Russia ( losing their cool, shooting themselves in the foot, with foolish penalties, useless emotional outbursts yadda yadda )...let's call it , Miracle on Ice syndrome :;)

Similarly....Swede Juniors, going all the way back to Forsberg and his Daddy, and let's not forget Divestrom et al, seem to have a similar ( how shall I put this? ) emotional fragility, when it comes to do or die games vs Canada's youngsters..let's call it the yellow-belly complex? :naughty:
 
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Just a little fact out there. Russia won all 4 last meetings (KO stage) playing Canada in 4 last WJC. So I hope to play them for gold and finally finish this. But I think Russia is done, they've done the most important thing - sent US home. Noone will be mad if they lost to Sweden who usually have the upper hand playing Russia
 
Mehar said:
Still hard to believe that the US lost in the QF and are out. I thought they were a definite top 3 team going into this tournament. However- in an one game showdown, a hot goalie is all that is needed, and i thought the Russian Goalie was the difference in the game. US never could get in a roll in the first period with their five straight minor penalties.

These things happen. I think the Americans will bounce back next year with 12 returning players to pick from. Same thing happened to Canada in 1998 when they lost to Russia in the QF, and losing to Kazakhstan in the 7th place game, when they were mentioned as favourites for the Gold.
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This team deserved better but too many senior players sat back and watched Larkin and eichel carry the mail
The coach also seemed to favour the kids which I would say was part of the reason for failure
This tournament experience will help for next year
 
Fuelled by Passion said:
Just a little fact out there. Russia won all 4 last meetings (KO stage) playing Canada in 4 last WJC. So I hope to play them for gold and finally finish this. But I think Russia is done, they've done the most important thing - sent US home. Noone will be mad if they lost to Sweden who usually have the upper hand playing Russia
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No one except Russians.
 
Scotty B said:
Hmmm...Go back to 2010, and USA has 2 World Junior Golds, plus considerably more success than Russia at the U18 level. Now you could argue that this is a product of hothousing NTDP guys, still you can't really argue with success. In recent years, USA's junior program doesn't take a backseat to anybody ( and I'm Canuck )

In that quarter final contest, and in the previous year, USA seemed to get emotionally discombobulated vs Russia ( losing their cool, shooting themselves in the foot, with foolish penalties, useless emotional outbursts yadda yadda )...let's call it , Miracle on Ice syndrome :;)

Similarly....Swede Juniors, going all the way back to Forsberg and his Daddy, and let's not forget Divestrom et al, seem to have a similar ( how shall I put this? ) emotional fragility, when it comes to do or die games vs Canada's youngsters..let's call it the yellow-belly complex? :naughty:
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I don't understand the preconceived notion that the USA should beat Russia at the WJC. There is no question that the Americans are better than Russians at U16-U18. Russian kids have almost no actual organized hockey experience at those age groups. But once you get above U18, the dominance dissipates markedly. Despite the steady decline of Russian hockey over the last 20 years, there is no objective basis in the results of competition to show that the USA has surpassed Russia. So I'm not sure why it should be considered an upset for the Russians to beat the Americans in the QF?

I have to say that your other premises, namely that the Russians have a mental block about Sweden, while the Swedes have the same mental block about beating Canada, has some factual basis in the results of competition. This Russian team is the least talented among Russian entries in recent editions of the WJC, so I have a hard time seeing them getting past Sweden. By the same token, I have no vision at all of Sweden beating Canada. They are just too psyched to get it done.
 
Yakushev72 said:
I don't understand the preconceived notion that the USA should beat Russia at the WJC. There is no question that the Americans are better than Russians at U16-U18. Russian kids have almost no actual organized hockey experience at those age groups. But once you get above U18, the dominance dissipates markedly. Despite the steady decline of Russian hockey over the last 20 years, there is no objective basis in the results of competition to show that the USA has surpassed Russia. So I'm not sure why it should be considered an upset for the Russians to beat the Americans in the QF?

I have to say that your other premises, namely that the Russians have a mental block about Sweden, while the Swedes have the same mental block about beating Canada, has some factual basis in the results of competition. This Russian team is the least talented among Russian entries in recent editions of the WJC, so I have a hard time seeing them getting past Sweden. By the same token, I have no vision at all of Sweden beating Canada. They are just too psyched to get it done.
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Could not have said it better myself Tovarish, as a russian french canadian (born in kazakhstan), I am glad to see both Russia and Canada advancing, furthermore a win is a win, the political comments are just a form of excuse and a sign of being a sore loser, politics should stay out of hockey.

(Edit: btw I was sure usa would win this one, glad I was wrong, happy to see that even our least talented team was able to pull through)
 
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HockeyAllDaWay said:
Could not have said it better myself Tovarish, as a russian french canadian (born in kazakhstan), I am glad to see both Russia and Canada advancing, furthermore a win is a win, the political comments are just a form of excuse and a sign of being a sore loser, politics should stay out of hockey.

(Edit: btw I was sure usa would win this one, glad I was wrong, happy to see that even our least talented team was able to pull through)
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I can't really compare this Russian team with others before it, but it seems that there are plenty of skilled forwards, and the defencemen (for e.g. Cherepanov) are not bad either. They may lack a bit of organisation, but they tend to play better in do or die situations, so while a Sweden win is more probable, one may never rule out a Russian victory.
 
Mehar said:
Still hard to believe that the US lost in the QF and are out. I thought they were a definite top 3 team going into this tournament. However- in an one game showdown, a hot goalie is all that is needed, and i thought the Russian Goalie was the difference in the game. US never could get in a roll in the first period with their five straight minor penalties.

These things happen. I think the Americans will bounce back next year with 12 returning players to pick from. Same thing happened to Canada in 1998 when they lost to Russia in the QF, and losing to Kazakhstan in the 7th place game, when they were mentioned as favourites for the Gold.
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I must confess I didn't see the game but from the highlites it appears Russia did have at least two 5 on 3 powerplays. I would hope the cause was because of blatant infractions and not questionable penalties. In the NHL it seems you would almost have to kill someone to get a 5 on 3 situation in an elimination playoff game.
 
Confucius said:
I must confess I didn't see the game but from the highlites it appears Russia did have at least two 5 on 3 powerplays. I would hope the cause was because of blatant infractions and not questionable penalties. In the NHL it seems you would almost have to kill someone to get a 5 on 3 situation in an elimination playoff game.
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US had a long 5 on 3 in the third and didn't score.

I predicted a Russia win because Russia tends to beat the US in WJ, US coaching in international hockey has shown to be suspect and both teams in Pool games were so so. US team tends to get overhyped in Canada relative to Russia especially when there is potential top pick playing for them and Canada is playing them on NYE.
 
BlitzSnipe said:
I can't really compare this Russian team with others before it, but it seems that there are plenty of skilled forwards, and the defencemen (for e.g. Cherepanov) are not bad either. They may lack a bit of organisation, but they tend to play better in do or die situations, so while a Sweden win is more probable, one may never rule out a Russian victory.
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just look over Russian team - several years ago it was impossible to see juniors playing at the highest level in KHL\superleague. Now most of them have such experience.
 
I looked as far back as last Nemchinov's team, I wouldn't claim this team is much weaker than any of the predecessors. The strongest one sticking out was with Kuznetsov and Tarasenko on the same team, but the rest of them are pretty even.
I think this year Bragin didn't do a very well coaching job and it shows. Talent-wise the team is medal-worthy, but obvious deficiencies on D (slow, not able to start attacks on time, buckling under fore-check). I think he also got overly impressed with the likes of Dergachiov/Feshenko during the SSS and now realizing that 5 on 5 his team only has two lines, that he can rely on. He is overplaying the top-two lines because of that and the team is worn out in the third.
 
Confucius said:
I must confess I didn't see the game but from the highlites it appears Russia did have at least two 5 on 3 powerplays. I would hope the cause was because of blatant infractions and not questionable penalties. In the NHL it seems you would almost have to kill someone to get a 5 on 3 situation in an elimination playoff game.
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Stick infractions, most of them, and blatant too. Yanks shot themselves in the foot. Calls were Legit, Refs were DEFINITELY not to blame
 
the team with Yakupov, Kucherov, Grigorenko, Gusev, and Kuznetsov was also pretty strong, but the injuries to Grigorenko and weak performance by Yakupov cost us the gold (probably)
 
cska78 said:
the team with Yakupov, Kucherov, Grigorenko, Gusev, and Kuznetsov was also pretty strong, but the injuries to Grigorenko and weak performance by Yakupov cost us the gold (probably)
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That team was weak defensively though, worse than this team.
 
cska78 said:
I looked as far back as last Nemchinov's team, I wouldn't claim this team is much weaker than any of the predecessors. The strongest one sticking out was with Kuznetsov and Tarasenko on the same team, but the rest of them are pretty even.
I think this year Bragin didn't do a very well coaching job and it shows. Talent-wise the team is medal-worthy, but obvious deficiencies on D (slow, not able to start attacks on time, buckling under fore-check). I think he also got overly impressed with the likes of Dergachiov/Feshenko during the SSS and now realizing that 5 on 5 his team only has two lines, that he can rely on. He is overplaying the top-two lines because of that and the team is worn out in the third.
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Yes, their 3rd period against the US wasn't impressive. They were having major problems defensively. Nice comment about the lines - I think Bragin needs to trust his 4th line more - better to have 4 fresh lines than 3 exhausted ones and 1 fresh one.

The defense definitely needs improvement. The offense seems pretty good though, there is a number of dangerous forwards.
 
I'll say it.......I'd rather have Varnakov coaching at the moment. Imo he's better than Bragin at getting the most out of average players.
 
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