OT: PWHL: Ottawa Charge

[Flamingo]

I'm sorry, but that's the opposite of American.

American is all about us vs them.

Families literally align politically, and if not are shamed.

That's not the case here.

I couldn't disagree more with your post.

Americans will literally fight followers of the opposite group and avoid them and not befriend them.

Here, I couldn't tell you who half the people vote for, because it's not brought up in every facet of life.

So, sorry to say, but you couldn't be more wrong.

Americans don't know how to be moderate or in the middle. It's one or the other.

It's common knowledge that America is very divided so I'm surprised you're unaware.

I’m not arguing that Americans aren’t divided into political tribes that they wear on their sleeves and don’t listen to arguments.

I am saying that that doesn’t mean the answer is to not criticize either side. And media does just that. They don’t call trump the traitorous con-man that he’s plainly been. And they don’t cover issues about Biden or the democrats — to wit, the Israeli-Hamas-Palestine conflict has been handled with kid gloves. The only criticism of either is coming from tribes across the divide, or from within factions.

For you to tell me im only criticizing trump because of my tribal affiliation, I find that really insulting.

 

[Beech]

three suggestions for the PWHL

1) consider a 16 minute period, 48 minute game. This will shrink ice time and keep players fresh. That will speed the game up, and introduce less scramble. Scramble hurts the women's game, it comes off as being house league hockey.

the success of women's soccer (Football) is in its finesse and in its peed. The game as played in England (WSL) is predicated on wingbacks and traditional wing players. That has meant head-maning (womaning) the ball. Their lack of strength, hinders the lateral passing of the ball from side line to side line. It forces the game to be played up and down.

2) reduce to 48 minutes and you reduce ice time for the 4th lines and the 3rd D pair. this will ensure that the more talented 9 F and 4 D play the bulk of teh minutes. This will elevate play and provide consistent "star power" on the ice

3) This will get me into trouble, but here goes.... TV announcers and colour commentator need to have DEEP voices. Soprano voices screech and are difficult to listen to. And it comes off as teenage boys or girls.

Go find women with deep voices... or use AI to alter their voice to a deep voice.

We criticize Dean and Gord, but their voices are easy to listen to.. As is Dan Shulman.. As is Joe Buck (Although he can screech sometime) as is Troy Aikman and so on. Danny Gallivan had a deep voice.

HIRE Doris Burke.. wonderful deep voice... or a Doris Burke like announcer/colour commentator

 

[Flamingo]

<snip>

3) This will get me into trouble, but here goes.... TV announcers and colour commentator need to have DEEP voices. Soprano voices screech and are difficult to listen to. And it comes off as teenage boys or girls.

Go find women with deep voices... or use AI to alter their voice to a deep voice.

We criticize Dean and Gord, but their voices are easy to listen to.. As is Dan Shulman.. As is Joe Buck (Although he can screech sometime) as is Troy Aikman and so on. Danny Gallivan had a deep voice.

HIRE Doris Burke.. wonderful deep voice... or a Doris Burke like announcer/colour commentator

Step right up, Jennifer Hedger.

 

[Beech]

Step right up, Jennifer Hedger.

this is going to come off in a terrible way.. but she is a slow talker... play by play must be Ramblers.. a word a second..

She can hee and humm without a script....

Open audition, get 10-20 women to come in.. test them on a simulated game. Chose the 3 you need to cover the league.

For Colour.. bring in 10-20 ex players.. test them.. see their knowledge. hear their voice over the air..


If all else fails.. AI.... voice altering.

 

[Flamingo]

this is going to come off in a terrible way.. but she is a slow talker... play by play must be Ramblers.. a word a second..

She can hee and humm without a script....

Open audition, get 10-20 women to come in.. test them on a simulated game. Chose the 3 you need to cover the league.

For Colour.. bring in 10-20 ex players.. test them.. see their knowledge. hear their voice over the air..


If all else fails.. AI.... voice altering.

Would be like John Wayne calling PxP.

Girls' and women's hockey advocates have played with notions of a lighter puck to increase shot velocity. I don't imagine a shorter game would go over well. Without the speed and contact of the men's game, a smaller rink would make a bigger difference. None of these ideas would fly, though. I think the PWHL will just have be appreciated for what it is.

 

[jbeck5]

I’m not arguing that Americans aren’t divided into political tribes that they wear on their sleeves and don’t listen to arguments.

I am saying that that doesn’t mean the answer is to not criticize either side. And media does just that. They don’t call trump the traitorous con-man that he’s plainly been. And they don’t cover issues about Biden or the democrats — to wit, the Israeli-Hamas-Palestine conflict has been handled with kid gloves. The only criticism of either is coming from tribes across the divide, or from within factions.

For you to tell me im only criticizing trump because of my tribal affiliation, I find that really insulting.

Sorry I may have misunderstood your take.

Also, I wasn't calling you anything.

I was talking about the whole conversation in general reminds me of Americans. All they talk about is Trump and Biden.

Also, I don't share your opinion that they don't call Trump or Biden out. It depends who you listen to. Corporations like CNN are always bashing Trump, and fox is always bashing Biden.

I don't see how you don't see this. They're wayyy more aggressively attacking the opposite leader depending on which company.

I rarely see a corporation that will trash Trump and Biden...or compliment Trump and Biden. It's one or the other and it's always war!

I rarely come into discussion with an American who changes his vote based on the recent platforms released. It's always engrained that they will be voting for a specific party or leader regardless of what they're saying or doing.

Here in Canada, I take pride in coming in contact with people who can weigh the pros and cons of each political party and could easily change their vote based on what makes sense at that specific time.

 

[Flamingo]

Sorry I may have misunderstood your take.

Also, I wasn't calling you anything.

I was talking about the whole conversation in general reminds me of Americans. All they talk about is Trump and Biden.

Also, I don't share your opinion that they don't call Trump or Biden out. It depends who you listen to. Corporations like CNN are always bashing Trump, and fox is always bashing Biden.

I don't see how you don't see this. They're wayyy more aggressively attacking the opposite leader depending on which company.

I rarely see a corporation that will trash Trump and Biden...or compliment Trump and Biden. It's one or the other and it's always war!

I rarely come into discussion with an American who changes his vote based on the recent platforms released. It's always engrained that they will be voting for a specific party or leader regardless of what they're saying or doing.

Here in Canada, I take pride in coming in contact with people who can weigh the pros and cons of each political party and could easily change their vote based on what makes sense at that specific time.

Ah, are the "MSM" outlets, e.g. CNN, NYT, WP, biased? That's a lonnnng discussion. And they're not homogeneously inclined one way or the other. They're not liberal propaganda, as a Fox news-watcher would insist. And they're not unbiased. A mix of profit-motivation and misplaced journalistic integrity causes them to treat politics like a sport, to report probabilities, and not do any investigative journalism. IMHO. OK, IMO, we can drop the "H". They fail to call out political leaders' failures, or to challenge them on hypocricies, conflicts of interests, etc., on both sides. But that doesn't mean that both sides are ncessarily guilty of misdeeds and incompetence in equal measure.

 

[jbeck5]

Ah, are the "MSM" outlets, e.g. CNN, NYT, WP, biased? That's a lonnnng discussion. And they're not homogeneously inclined one way or the other. They're not liberal propaganda, as a Fox news-watcher would insist. And they're not unbiased. A mix of profit-motivation and misplaced journalistic integrity causes them to treat politics like a sport, to report probabilities, and not do any investigative journalism. IMHO. OK, IMO, we can drop the "H". They fail to call out political leaders' failures, or to challenge them on hypocricies, conflicts of interests, etc., on both sides. But that doesn't mean that both sides are ncessarily guilty of misdeeds and incompetence in equal measure.

I guess you may be right there.

My original statement was just of the general American attitude of everything being a political argument or fight.

Americans are very divided because you get your yeehaw cowboy conservative Texan who will never admit to the good of social programs, and then you'll have a soy boy soft hippy from California who will never admit the good of capitalism and the needs of the tough industry.

There never seems to be that reasonable middle ground where everyone gets along and can share opinions.

I just thought it was funny that a women's hockey league discussion was headed to the way of bashing or praising Trump.

Trump has literally nothing to do with this women's league.

So it reminds me of the comment sections with Americans. A company will raise the price of cereal and instead of talking about costs of goods or transportation or profits, it becomes a shit slinging contest about Trump or Biden.

Just thought it was funny that this conversation was heading that way. It's the very American way of doing something. Don't like something? "Blame Trump" ya know???

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Again with media. I'm not citing any media interpretation. Just look at Trump's own words. This has the potential to blow up into a protracted political and ethical debate. My point is that people who defend Trump's odious behavior deflect by denying plain facts and blaming the media/MSM/liberal media for spreading propaganda and lies. It's really weak and it tears a huge hole in the fabric of society.

You want Trump examples?

Per Trump, immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country." That's a quote from this year.

A little further back in time, a group in Charlottesville gathered to protest the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee. Another group of counter-protesters gatheres. An individual drove their car into the counter-protesters, killing one and injuring many. At the risk of criticizing his Confederation-loving supporters, his statement was that "I think there was blame on both sides."

And I could dig up everything about Trump not accepting black residents in his NYC apartment complexes in 1980s and 1990s.

On Biden's opposition to the USA's bussing program, sure, most opposition came from white parents who didn't want black students bussed to their schools, aligning that position with racist attitudes. Biden's response to that was he opposed federal mandates of programs that should be managed locally, at the level where racial segregation by neighbourhoods was understood and could be more well-administered. I had to google all that this morning, so if you think there's a point about Biden's postion that you really think outs him as racist, you'll have to present it more clearly.

I’m not a defender of DJT, but can see the MSM spin when it’s so obvious.

And yes, spin happens both ways, no matter the news source…. They’re bias on both sides


If you read the full comment, about illegal immigrants entering illegally into the USA, bringing Fentanyl with them, that accounts for roughly 10k overdose deaths per year…. Yes that is poisoning America…and of course the MSM takes part of the comment out of context and spins it to fit their anti Trump narrative…..

maybe you’re trying to spin “blame on both sides” as being racist, but you’d have show the racial make up of both sides to make your case.


When accused of racial discrimination in the mid 70s, re apartments, DJT claimed “What we didn’t do was rent to welfare cases, white or black," in his 1987 book…..no charges were laid….but again this is MSM spin.

The Trumps and their company entered into a consent decree, settling the unfounded racial discrimination litigation in 1975. The agreement contained no admission of wrongdoing, but required the Trump firm to institute a series of safeguards to make sure apartments were rented without regard to race, color, religion, sex or national origin.


Biden is always playing racial politics

He said presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney would "put you all back in chains" by unshackling Wall Street.

in "1977: Biden Said Integrating Black Students Would Turn Schools into ‘A Jungle… A Racial Jungle. I don't want my children to grow up in a jungle, a racial jungle."

Biden famously quoted in the New York Observer, when talking about Obama “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”… this was seen as racist at the time.


Biden, during an interview with Charlemagne tha god, said. "I'll tell you, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or for Trump, then you ain't black."


Biden also played the racial stereotype card when he said "And by the way, what you all know but most people don't know, unlike the African American community with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things. You go to Florida you find a very different attitude about immigration in certain places than you do when you're in Arizona. So it's a very different, a very diverse community,"

Biden, who has faced criticism in the past over comments he made about working with segregationists, gave the eulogy for Senator Robert Byrd at his funeral in 2010. "Bishop, Reverend Clergy, Mona and Marjorie, the entire Byrd family—if you didn't already know it, it's pretty clear the incredible esteem your father was held in," Byrd was a Known member of the KKK.

Anyways……. Enough of this rabbit hole….. and one more time, Neither Biden or Trump are fit for office, in my opinion….there are better options out there…. But the “system” seems intent to serve these two up to voters later this year…..

 

[Flamingo]

I’m not a defender of DJT, but can see the MSM spin when it’s so obvious.

<snip>

I beg to differ.

Anyhow, yeah, back to the P-dub.

 

[OD99]

Take this convo to another board or get back to the women's game.

Please.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I beg to differ.

Anyhow, yeah, back to the P-dub.

You can differ all you want…. And you will be wrong…..But some people label others when they simply are explaining, in full, both sides of an issue, it is not defending one side or the other…..the MSM take things out of context to advance their narrative against their opponent…that is their mission, to protect their guy and bash the shit out of the the other guy….. just look at how the MSM are spinning the narrative to run cover for the former President of Harvard, who has recently resigned….. to the MSM it was all about pigmentation and chromosomes… and nothing to do with not being able to denounce calls for genocide or plagiarism.

I know who I would be 100% behind, if I were a resident of the USA, and it is neither of the two presumptive front runners of either major party….the USA loses big time if either front runner is elected….both are to old, and have too much baggage that will handicap their ability to function as POTUS.

 

[Larionov]

In terms of the game itself, I am interested to see how the body contact/body checking rules evolve. Right now, this is officially a non-body checking league, but the truth is that they are largely letting it fly. I'm all for that - these are skilled players, and I think that saddling them with a no body checking league is kind of insulting. No surprise that the rule book is being stretched hugely on this, but that isn't viable long term - eventually they are going to have to codify what is allowed and what isn't. In the meantime, I heard Cheryl Pounder saying that she would have loved to have played in an era where this kind of physical play was allowed - why do I get the sense that Pounder would have given you an elbow to the chops without a second of hesitation? ;-)

 

[Flamingo]

In terms of the game itself, I am interested to see how the body contact/body checking rules evolve. Right now, this is officially a non-body checking league, but the truth is that they are largely letting it fly. I'm all for that - these are skilled players, and I think that saddling them with a no body checking league is kind of insulting. No surprise that the rule book is being stretched hugely on this, but that isn't viable long term - eventually they are going to have to codify what is allowed and what isn't. In the meantime, I heard Cheryl Pounder saying that she would have loved to have played in an era where this kind of physical play was allowed - why do I get the sense that Pounder would have given you an elbow to the chops without a second of hesitation? ;-)

She also said that the kind of contact being allowed is only along the boards, and not with any big closing velocity.

You're right, the PWHL rule book has to be updated to allow the kind of contact that's been allowed. Rule 52 currently mirrors the IIHF rules for women's hockey.

If a player with the puck is skating directly at an opponent who is stationary, it is theobligation of the puck carrier to “avoid contact”. But, if the puck carrier makes every effort to“avoid contact” and the opponent moves into the puck carrier, that opponent will be assessedat least a Minor Penalty (2’) for an “illegal hit”

It should be updated to allow checks along the boards to involve body contact. I expect they'll assess injury rates after this period of informal checking allowance.

However, women are more succeptible to concussions and recover more slowly from them. I don't think we'll see them adopt the same standard as men's hockey.

 

[Beech]

She also said that the kind of contact being allowed is only along the boards, and not with any big closing velocity.

You're right, the PWHL rule book has to be updated to allow the kind of contact that's been allowed. Rule 52 currently mirrors the IIHF rules for women's hockey.



It should be updated to allow checks along the boards to involve body contact. I expect they'll assess injury rates after this period of informal checking allowance.

However, women are more succeptible to concussions and recover more slowly from them. I don't think we'll see them adopt the same standard as men's hockey.

Players who have not spent almost 10 years playing a game with physical contact, cannot be asked to do so later on.

Women's hockey does not allow contact at any level.. So to ask 19-35 year old women to start being physical will not work well.

It will mean that they will forget about the puck and focus on hitting, or protecting from being hit.

Go watch 13 year olds in their first year of contact hockey.. the puck can be left out.. it can sit peacefully in the middle of the ice. The players are either running around looking to kill each other.. or hiding so that they don't get killed.

and sticks are either defensive weapons, or tools for bludgeoning.

This has to be handled properly. They need to work with the IIHF and see about adding physicality to the women's game for younger aged women/girl's.

the early euphoria about the physical play will be replaced by problems in a few games.. Some player, panicked in fear will use her stick as a weapon!!! And it won't be long before elbows go up and head shots.

 

[Flamingo]

Players who have not spent almost 10 years playing a game with physical contact, cannot be asked to do so later on.

Women's hockey does not allow contact at any level.. So to ask 19-35 year old women to start being physical will not work well.

It will mean that they will forget about the puck and focus on hitting, or protecting from being hit.

Go watch 13 year olds in their first year of contact hockey.. the puck can be left out.. it can sit peacefully in the middle of the ice. The players are either running around looking to kill each other.. or hiding so that they don't get killed.

and sticks are either defensive weapons, or tools for bludgeoning.

This has to be handled properly. They need to work with the IIHF and see about adding physicality to the women's game for younger aged women/girl's.

the early euphoria about the physical play will be replaced by problems in a few games.. Some player, panicked in fear will use her stick as a weapon!!! And it won't be long before elbows go up and head shots.

The amount of physical contact we've seen permitted in the PWHL matches what some districts have allowed in girl's competitive hockey for the past 20 years. I.e., at tournaments in Toronto, it seemed a lot more hitting was allowed than in Ottawa. American districts all varied too.

And this type of contact is just a small level of physical engagement up from checking without body contact, but still trying to gain body position advantage on the puck or rub out on the boards, which have always been allowed.

I don't expect them to add open-ice hitting or hitting where the checker closes in on the puck carrier with a large speed differential. That's would be the kind of hitting where predatory hits can really surprise players that aren't conditioned to it.

 

[Larionov]

If I played in that league right now, I would just keep laying the hits until the officials decide what the standard is going to be. Judging by the first game, they are going to get a lot of runway...

 

[Beech]

If I played in that league right now, I would just keep laying the hits until the officials decide what the standard is going to be. Judging by the first game, they are going to get a lot of runway...

hey Larionov,

what do you think it will be like when the first fight breaks out?

 

[Larionov]

hey Larionov,

what do you think it will be like when the first fight breaks out?

Given that they all wear full cages I'm not expecting much but who knows - there have been some pretty epic scuffles in women's games in Europe. Like with any other fight, penalties will be assessed and the game will continue...

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Given that they all wear full cages I'm not expecting much but who knows - there have been some pretty epic scuffles in women's games in Europe. Like with any other fight, penalties will be assessed and the game will continue...

I’m assuming there is a rule that mandates a full face shield…. That is why everyone on the ice looks the same, and you can’t immediately know who the puck carrier is, or whatever….. perhaps they should allow the players to decide for themselves it they want to wear a full, half or no shield at all? Doubt any of them would ditch the full shield as they’ve all used one since they first put on skates, but some may opt for a half shield.

 

[Golden_Jet]

In terms of the game itself, I am interested to see how the body contact/body checking rules evolve. Right now, this is officially a non-body checking league, but the truth is that they are largely letting it fly. I'm all for that - these are skilled players, and I think that saddling them with a no body checking league is kind of insulting. No surprise that the rule book is being stretched hugely on this, but that isn't viable long term - eventually they are going to have to codify what is allowed and what isn't. In the meantime, I heard Cheryl Pounder saying that she would have loved to have played in an era where this kind of physical play was allowed - why do I get the sense that Pounder would have given you an elbow to the chops without a second of hesitation? ;-)

No it is a body checking league, see the PWHA rule book.

 

[SensCaper]

Ottawa is playing Toronto right now. It is on CBC. Ottawa up 3-0 at the end of the first period. Lots of physicality. It would be nice to have a professional team that is actually competitive in Ottawa this year (as opposed to Senators and Redblacks).

 

[mianjo]

4-1 after 2

 

[NyQuil]

Comes into thread to read about PWHL game against TO:

 

[StoicSensFan]

Comes into thread to read about PWHL game against TO:View attachment 802278

This could be you with certain posters ignored: