News Article: Puck Prospectus - Pen's bottom 6 (ouch)

[wgknestrick]

http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1596

Click to read more...

 

[IcedCapp]

this isn't the planned bottom-6. It'll look different when one of Bennett and Jokinen, as well as Kobasew and Dags are healthy and in the lineup

 

[Jag68Sid87]

this isn't the planned bottom-6. It'll look different when one of Bennett and Jokinen, as well as Kobasew and Dags are healthy and in the lineup

Bylsma won't be benching all of his pets. That just isn't happening.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

An entire article with the correct answer is in the very last sentence.

This is laughable, the writer points out all of the Penguins negatives to think they're in trouble. For example this quote...

"Teams like the Penguins need to find bargains in free agency, as well as have players ready to step in from the farm system to help round out the roster on the cheap."

Man if only Ray Shero was smart enough to know he should do that, oh wait he did. Matt D'Agostini and Chuck Kobasew each signed to contracts for league minimum, $550,000. Also, this quote...

"Since 2007, the Penguins have drafted just one forward that has appeared in more than 35 NHL games for them, Dustin Jeffrey, a player who has been relegated to healthy scratch status for much of the season"

What a convenient number to choose, 35. I'll choose another number, 31 NHL games. You know who has played that many games in the NHL? Beau Bennett, an injured player right now who is important to our team's forward depth.

"A potential third line of Jokinen, Sutter, and D'Agostini seems infinitely more potent than their current options. It is just a matter of waiting for it to finally happen."

I'm sure every team has better options when their players come back from injury, very solid analysis. I have an idea, how about when our team gets healthy, we keep Jokinen with Malkin and Neal and put Bennett on the 3rd line with Sutter and D'Agostini/Kobasew? And there you go, our options are "infinitely more potent" than Conner, Zolnierczyk, Engelland, etc.

 

[wej20]

The bottom 6 definitely isn't great even when Bennett/Jokinen slot back onto the 3rd line, adding someone with Snarl and Size to the 3rd line would go a long way to solving things though.

 

[Sivek]

Yeah, the bottom-6 is probably the worst of any on team that is a serious Cup contender, even if you add Bennett. 4th-line is basically locked-up no matter how much we hee and haw about it, so the only area the team will likely make a move for is at the 3RW over Kobasew. Dupuis on the 3rd line is a pipe-dream everyone should just give up on no matter how much sense it makes.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Come on Eyes of Orpik, it's very tough to justify Shero's drafting. Besides Bennett, name one respectable forward that Shero has drafted since Staal when we had the #2 overall pick. You all know Erik Johnson would have been drafted by Shero if St. Louis hadn't screwed the pooch.

 

[wgknestrick]

An entire article with the correct answer is in the very last sentence.

This is laughable, the writer points out all of the Penguins negatives to think they're in trouble. For example this quote...



Man if only Ray Shero was smart enough to know he should do that, oh wait he did. Matt D'Agostini and Chuck Kobasew each signed to contracts for league minimum, $550,000. Also, this quote...



What a convenient number to choose, 35. I'll choose another number, 31 NHL games. You know who has played that many games in the NHL? Beau Bennett, an injured player right now who is important to our team's forward depth.

I'm sure every team has better options when their players come back from injury, very solid analysis. I have an idea, how about when our team gets healthy, we keep Jokinen with Malkin and Neal and put Bennett on the 3rd line with Sutter and D'Agostini/Kobasew? And there you go, our options are "infinitely more potent" than Conner, Zolnierczyk, Engelland, etc.

Do you scout for the Penguin's 3rd and 4th lines? You are certainly defensive about it for no apparent reason.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Do you scout for the Penguin's 3rd and 4th lines? You are certainly defensive about it for no apparent reason.

I think the point is, most team's bottom two lines would look pretty bad if they had three injuries to their forward group.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It's the ****ing bottom six.

You guys obsess about the bottom six way too much. Sort of like the overreaction about loss of a draft pick. OMG, we lost a second rounder, there goes the next Mario. 2nd rounders have about a 15% chance of any sort of a career at all. The same thing is going on here.

The difference between the best bottom six and most of the others is not all that much. They are bottom six for a reason, and teams that usually have cracker jack bottom sixes have 'em because they suck and do not spend much on the top six.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Do you scout for the Penguin's 3rd and 4th lines? You are certainly defensive about it for no apparent reason.

I just think this article is stupid, for example, what does Chicago's forward depth look like without Hossa, Saad and another forward like Shaw or Kruger? It's obvious the Pens bottom six isn't good right now with the likes of Zolnierczyk, Conner, etc. But with a full lineup, there's really not much room to complain, I know fans want size and grit, but with a fully healthy lineup of...

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Bennett-Sutter-Kobasew/D'Agostini
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Jeffrey, D'Agostini/Kobasew

I don't see anything wrong with that lineup that suggests the Penguins need to change something. The article suggested that we didn't do any bargain hunting in free agency, we did. It also suggested we didn't draft a forward who has played more than 35 games, I've pointed out that (while true) it's a very convenient number for the author to choose just to prove their point, if he subtracts his number by just 4, you have Beau Bennett, a young solid top 9 forward drafted by the Penguins in 2010. If you include post season, Bennett has played 37 NHL games.

I know fans may want grit, toughness, etc. in the bottom 6 and that's fine. IMO we have that with our 4th line. But this article tells me that the Penguins aren't doing their jobs, when in fact, they are doing their jobs. Even without Bennett, D'Agostini, Neal and Letang we are 7-2. People say we lack depth, but our team still finds a way to get the job done.

 

[Fire Shero*]

It's the ****ing bottom six.

You guys obsess about the bottom six way too much. Sort of like the overreaction about loss of a draft pick. OMG, we lost a second rounder, there goes the next Mario. 2nd rounders have about a 15% chance of any sort of a career at all. The same thing is going on here.

The difference between the best bottom six and most of the others is not all that much. They are bottom six for a reason, and teams that usually have cracker jack bottom sixes have 'em because they suck and do not spend much on the top six.

Agreed about the draft picks, mostly because Shero is the GM so a second round pick for the pens is pretty worthless. But when Jeffrey is your best forward drafted for 6 years or so, there are serious issues.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Agreed about the draft picks, mostly because Shero is the GM so a second round pick for the pens is pretty worthless. But when Jeffrey is your best forward drafted for 6 years or so, there are serious issues.

That is an entirely different discussion. Though you are forgetting Bennett.

But the lack of developing forward prospects is a fairly settled concern here at HF.

However the hope is not to develop them for the bottom six. Like I said that is another issue entirely.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's the ****ing bottom six.

You guys obsess about the bottom six way too much. Sort of like the overreaction about loss of a draft pick. OMG, we lost a second rounder, there goes the next Mario. 2nd rounders have about a 15% chance of any sort of a career at all. The same thing is going on here.

The difference between the best bottom six and most of the others is not all that much. They are bottom six for a reason, and teams that usually have cracker jack bottom sixes have 'em because they suck and do not spend much on the top six.

I completely disagree. Chicago, LA, and Boston's bottom 6's are all superior and were major contributors to their cup runs. Out bottom 6 in 2009 was important as well.

That said, we do have a few guys that could make our bottom 6 more effective if we focused on filling out Crosby's right wing.

 

[Shady Machine]

I just think this article is stupid, for example, what does Chicago's forward depth look like without Hossa, Saad and another forward like Shaw or Kruger? It's obvious the Pens bottom six isn't good right now with the likes of Zolnierczyk, Conner, etc. But with a full lineup, there's really not much room to complain, I know fans want size and grit, but with a fully healthy lineup of...

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Bennett-Sutter-Kobasew/D'Agostini
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Jeffrey, D'Agostini/Kobasew

I don't see anything wrong with that lineup that suggests the Penguins need to change something. The article suggested that we didn't do any bargain hunting in free agency, we did. It also suggested we didn't draft a forward who has played more than 35 games, I've pointed out that (while true) it's a very convenient number for the author to choose just to prove their point, if he subtracts his number by just 4, you have Beau Bennett, a young solid top 9 forward drafted by the Penguins in 2010. If you include post season, Bennett has played 37 NHL games.

I know fans may want grit, toughness, etc. in the bottom 6 and that's fine. IMO we have that with our 4th line. But this article tells me that the Penguins aren't doing their jobs, when in fact, they are doing their jobs. Even without Bennett, D'Agostini, Neal and Letang we are 7-2. People say we lack depth, but our team still finds a way to get the job done.

You mis-read the article IMO. It wasn't really criticizing what the Pens have done, but rather recognizing the challenges when you allocate 50% of your cap space to 5 players.

 

[IcedCapp]

You mis-read the article IMO. It wasn't really criticizing what the Pens have done, but rather recognizing the challenges when you allocate 50% of your cap space to 5 players.

but we should have traded Malkin to keep Cooke - Staal - Kennedy

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I completely disagree. Chicago, LA, and Boston's bottom 6's are all superior and were major contributors to their cup runs. Out bottom 6 in 2009 was important as well.

That said, we do have a few guys that could make our bottom 6 more effective if we focused on filling out Crosby's right wing.

I never said that they were not better. I said that the difference is not some huge chasm. Say like the difference between Crosby and Malkin and other team's top two players.

In a cap world you usually have to make choices, and our choice was to spend the money on Malkin, Crosby, Neal and Letang. Good choice IMO.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If you really believe that the bottom six doesn't matter... I have a disappointing playoff exit to sell you.

 

[mpp9]

We need a dominant wall player. Aside from that, we look good.

 

[Shady Machine]

I never said that they were not better. I said that the difference is not some huge chasm. Say like the difference between Crosby and Malkin and other team's top two players.

In a cap world you usually have to make choices, and our choice was to spend the money on Malkin, Crosby, Neal and Letang. Good choice IMO.

Which is fine if we are giving them the right linemates to succeed with. Letang now has his guy in Scuds. Sliding Duper down to the 3rd line with Sutter and one of Bennett/Jokinen will really help solidify this team. We just need to find that top line RW or 2nd line LW. The problem then is cap space. That's where the drafting a million young dmen is supposed to help. The problem is the team isn't willing to dump any veteran to open up a roster spot.

Hence the whole point of this article.

 

[Shady Machine]

but we should have traded Malkin to keep Cooke - Staal - Kennedy

I agree.

 

[wej20]

Come on Eyes of Orpik, it's very tough to justify Shero's drafting. Besides Bennett, name one respectable forward that Shero has drafted since Staal when we had the #2 overall pick. You all know Erik Johnson would have been drafted by Shero if St. Louis hadn't screwed the pooch.

Wasn't Johnson the consensus #1 pick? without hindsight Johnson would have been the best pick with Crosby and Malkin taken in the previous draft.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I agree.

Hahahaha!





You... aren't serious, right?

 

[Shady Machine]

Hahahaha!





You... aren't serious, right?

I just wanted to see Iced's head explode.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh... hehe.

Yeah... that is fun.