"Puck Posession" vs "Dump and Chase"

[saltming]

Fump and chase CAN be an effective tactic when ypu have the right roster for it (ie heavy forwards like LA did during their cup runs).

With thr Leafs you want to keep on the stick of Nylander/Marmer/Matthews/Taavres ect. These guys arent grinders and never will be.

These guys can be provided with grinders.
Insert an Engvall or Korshkov and Hyman and suddenly there are lines capable of playing both styles.

 

[Lightsol]

I always felt that was what Babcock was trying to teach them.

Except that's not what Babcock was trying to teach them; Babcock was trying to get them to play dump-and-chase ALL THE TIME.

 

[Menzinger]

These guys can be provided with grinders.
Insert an Engvall or Korshkov and Hyman and suddenly there are lines capable of playing both styles.

I suspect thats the plan for the team, they just need to clear out some toater space first

 

[LeafGrief]

Every team needs to be able to dump and chase with some level of proficiency, but I think it's a pretty basic concept that it's better to have the puck on your stick than on the other guy's stick. It will always be true that sometimes you just need to fire it in there and get off the ice or chase a 50/50, but the last thing you want is to give a skilled opponent the puck. Victor Hedman or Zdeno Chara are on the ice? Don't dump the damn puck, why the hell would you dump the puck against them when you're not going to get it back? Torey Krug or Jake Gardiner on the ice? Dump away boys!

I don't mind that the Leafs are built almost entirely to hold onto the puck. I don't even necessarily agree that you need to dump and grind in the playoffs. That capability needs to be there on a basic level because it will always have a role, but holding onto the puck is the right call most of the time. Puck management is the name of the game, and sometimes the smartest play is to get it 200 feet from your net, but a system designed to hold on to the thing is advantageous to trying to consistently win 50/50 or even 70/30 battles.

 

[saltming]

Except that's not what Babcock was trying to teach them; Babcock was trying to get them to play dump-and-chase ALL THE TIME.

Because they already could play the possession game and needed to learn the other part

 

[saltming]

I suspect thats the plan foenthe team, they just need to clear out some toater space first

Agreed. Dubas did it with the marlies so I don't see why he wouldn't do it with the leafs

 

[Ashdown2]

Except that's not what Babcock was trying to teach them; Babcock was trying to get them to play dump-and-chase ALL THE TIME.

you need to do both ... its not a black or white thing.
teams should be switching depending on the game situation and frankly keeping the other team on their toes. trying to see the team carry it in 10 times in a row or vise versa is just maddening

 

[Lightsol]

Because they already could play the possession game and needed to learn the other part

That only works if you look at Babcock's tenure with the Leafs in isolation and pretend Babcock never coached anywhere else. Because claiming he "needed to teach the young Leaf players to play dump and chase" does not work when it's TEAM CANADA you're talking about...
And despite that, Babcock's Team Canada, with some of the best players in the world... Were playing dump-and-chase. So were all of his Red Wing teams. So did all of his Anaheim teams. Fact is, Babcock wasn't trying to teach the young players on the Leafs to play dump and chase because they needed balance; he was teaching the players to play dump-and-chase because Babcock insists every team he coaches play dump-and-chase, talent level be damned. And that's what made him a good coach for the beginning of the rebuild, but a terrible one as the rebuild progressed and the Leafs started to amass more talent. This team simply SUCKS when they try to play dump-and-chase and only dump-and-chase. They don't have the players for it, and even now with Keefe as the HC, you can see that when the Leafs fall back into dump-and-chase (an expected result after four years of the HC insisting on it being the go-to strategy), they look like complete dog shit.

An argument can be made that they'll have to adjust the roster to get a few guys capable of doing the dump-and-chase, because in the playoffs it's more likely to be successful. But what's not arguable is that the Leafs cannot do it as they are currently assembled, and trying to force it on a roster not built for it is squandering the roster's talent.

As I said in other topics, the Leafs should try to use an attacking possession game and see how far it takes them, as teams like Detroit and Colorado have done in the past. If they still aren't moving forward with it, then the balance of the roster needs to be adjusted.

 

[saltming]

That only works if you look at Babcock's tenure with the Leafs in isolation and pretend Babcock never coached anywhere else. Because claiming he "needed to teach the young Leaf players to play dump and chase" does not work when it's TEAM CANADA you're talking about...
And despite that, Babcock's Team Canada, with some of the best players in the world... Were playing dump-and-chase. So were all of his Red Wing teams. So did all of his Anaheim teams. Fact is, Babcock wasn't trying to teach the young players on the Leafs to play dump and chase because they needed balance; he was teaching the players to play dump-and-chase because Babcock insists every team he coaches play dump-and-chase, talent level be damned. And that's what made him a good coach for the beginning of the rebuild, but a terrible one as the rebuild progressed and the Leafs started to amass more talent. This team simply SUCKS when they try to play dump-and-chase and only dump-and-chase. They don't have the players for it, and even now with Keefe as the HC, you can see that when the Leafs fall back into dump-and-chase (an expected result after four years of the HC insisting on it being the go-to strategy), they look like complete dog ****.

An argument can be made that they'll have to adjust the roster to get a few guys capable of doing the dump-and-chase, because in the playoffs it's more likely to be successful. But what's not arguable is that the Leafs cannot do it as they are currently assembled, and trying to force it on a roster not built for it is squandering the roster's talent.

As I said in other topics, the Leafs should try to use an attacking possession game and see how far it takes them, as teams like Detroit and Colorado have done in the past. If they still aren't moving forward with it, then the balance of the roster needs to be adjusted.

When speaking of the past we need to remember that clutching and hooking was pretty much allowed so the game was majoitively dump and chase.
As for the wings, I can recall seeing Datsyuk or zetterberg making sublime entries with possession.
I think possession and dump and chase are nothing new, they have always been part of hockey. Maybe the percentages of which one was used might shift over the years, but it's still hockey.