GDT: Prospects Tournament Sept 16th - 19th

[mdj12784]

Can Bahl realistically have a permanent spot on the big club?

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Can Bahl realistically have a permanent spot on the big club?

Hope so.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Can Bahl realistically have a permanent spot on the big club?

Yes, but I wouldn't expect anything more than him treading water in third pairing minutes.

 

[My3Sons]

Yes, but I wouldn't expect anything more than him treading water in third pairing minutes.

To be fair what woukd Graves have looked like at the same age?

 

[MasterofGrond]

I am not a Bahliever

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Yes, but I wouldn't expect anything more than him treading water in third pairing minutes.

A defense-first defenseman with size and a long reach who is mobile and capable of moving the puck out of his end quickly with a first pass.

Something the Devils have sorely needed the past three seasons.

How does that relegate him to the 3rd pair?

 

[Rynewed]

A defense-first defenseman with size and a long reach who is mobile and capable of moving the puck out of his end quickly with a first pass.

Something the Devils have sorely needed the past three seasons.

How does that relegate him to the 3rd pair?

Isnt that already on our defense and its Siegenthaler?

I dont see how Bahl ever passes Siegenthaler if he continues his level of play. And he definitely isnt going to be better than Luke Hughes lol

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

Sup with Brennan? Never really registered him before watching last night's highlights. Do we have something developing there? A GOALTENDER prospect????

:wow:

 

[Devs3cups]

Sup with Brennan? Never really registered him before watching last night's highlights. Do we have something developing there? A GOALTENDER prospect????

:wow:

I'll admit I'm not the best when it comes to goalie prospects, but looks to me like Daws, Schmid, Malek and Brennan is a pretty decent goalie pool!

 

[glenwo2]

Or if he actually played anyway....

 

[ninetyeight]

Isnt that already on our defense and its Siegenthaler?

I dont see how Bahl ever passes Siegenthaler if he continues his level of play.

To be fair at least I didn't think Siegenthaler was Siegenthaler until he was Siegenthaler

Defencemen seem to take way longer to develop and sometimes just figure out their weaknesses in a short span. But yeah it's unlikely that Bahl would ever be a top pairing guy, but with his size I think his ceiling still could be a middle pair shutdown guy.

 

[Xirik]

Or if he actually played anyway....

He played the Devils vs Buff game, He is small but he seem to likes to hit and fight along the boards. He is average in every way and very forgetable. He didn't really do anything good but he didn't do anything bad. He's good enough to be a body for the utica team I think.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

To be fair at least I didn't think Siegenthaler was Siegenthaler until he was Siegenthaler

Defencemen seem to take way longer to develop and sometimes just figure out their weaknesses in a short span. But yeah it's unlikely that Bahl would ever be a top pairing guy, but with his size I think his ceiling still could be a middle pair shutdown guy.

It's gonna take some time. It's just the way the position is. A legit 2nd pairing shit down d man (that is actually good at defending) would be a good outcome for a 2nd round pick in Bahl. It really is hard to get legitimate top 4 D men so you take what you can get. I think that's a reason why the Devils took Nemec. There is a alot to like about Nemec as well but drafting D men is really hard It seems. If you Mook at our current top 6. Dmen only Severson was a Devils draft pick. Hamilton (Boston) , Marino (Edm) , Siegenthaler (Wsh) , Smith & Graves (NYR). Now we did trade Smith who was an NHL regular the last 2 years but that shows how bad we struggled taking D men in the Draft. Larsson is the only one who comes to mind who actually was good and he cost a #4 overall pick. Merrill was okay but him Gelinas , Urbom etc all are forgotten or out of the league.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Siegenthaler is one guy. And can't help thinking at this stage in his career Bahl still has a higher upside.

Looking forward to Bahl playing instead of guys like Smith, Severson and Graves -regardless of how he holds his stick.

 

[glenwo2]

He played the Devils vs Buff game, He is small but he seem to likes to hit and fight along the boards. He is average in every way and very forgetable. He didn't really do anything good but he didn't do anything bad. He's good enough to be a body for the utica team I think.

It's a start.

Being forgetable can also mean he's not screwing up on Defense so he's not noticeable.

The old "no news is good news" adage.

Hopefully, he can improve on all facets in his game so he won't be so average and get better.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I watched as much of the rookie tournament as I could during what was a busy week for me. I felt the most improved skaters in the line-up were Vilen and Foote. Holtz, too. All of these kids have clearly worked hard on their skating and really upped it a notch. Vilen looked good all around, but I always liked him as a player. My criticism of his pick was more to do with his LD position and middling landing spot on the stacked Devils LD depth chart than with Vilen as an actual player.

I was actually much tougher on the Ethan Edwards pick than the Vilen pick, and Edwards has also improved remarkably since he was drafted, particularly on the defensive side of the puck and in his physical game.

I agree with @My3Sons that it would be appreciated to tag me in these scenarios so that I have an opportunity to defend my positions and analyses. Though on draft day I was skeptical of Vilen's skating, I watched him some this past year and don't believe I've been critical of his skating since what I wrote about him the week he was drafted. Thus, the statement "StevenToddIves has been telling everyone Vilen is a bad skater" is one I'd appreciate the chance to dispute.

Ultimately, I think there's a difference between being critical of a pick than a player. For instance, this past draft I said at length that the Devils would be foolish to draft Logan Cooley at #2 overall. Yet, I never criticized Cooley, whom I was extremely high on all year long. I just thought he made no sense for the organization, since I do not find his upside to be as high as the Devils two young franchise centers in Hughes and Hischier. I think Vilen was a lesser version of this scenario, since of course he was a 5th round pick and not a top 2 overall pick. But again, I lauded Vilen's overall game while remaining somewhat skeptical of the logic in picking him. Conversely, I have absolutely lambasted Devils picks in the past from Baumgartner to Hurtig. This was certainly not the case in this scenario, where I liked the player but was lukewarm on the decision to draft him.

As of today, I would still not rank Vilen or Edwards in the Devils top 5 LD prospects. Of course Luke Hughes is at the top, and I watch enough Russian hockey to realize how people have been sleeping on Mukhamadullin, Misyul, Zaitsev and Orlov -- whom I was very high on leading up to the 2022 draft. I also have been quite vocal in my very high hopes for Okhotyuk, while still believing both Bahl and Vukojevic have solid NHL potential.

But Topias Vilen has achieved -- thus far -- what anyone would hope from an NHL prospect. He has worked his tail off to improve the areas of his game which were in need of improvement, while continuing to develop his strengths. Right now, his development curve has clearly shot upwards and he must be considered a legit NHL prospect, and kudos to the young man for that.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

I forgot that we signed Vilen to an ELC so I'm gonna assume he will be playing in the AHL this year. Kind of shows that the organization likes what they have seen since we have taken him. They could have waited another year I believe before offering him his ELC if they were skeptical about giving him one.

 

[Xirik]

@StevenToddIves Seems like you were right on the button about Owen Beck. I would say he was probably the best player in the tournament. Habs fans weren't that excited about him after the draft but now they are freaking out about how awesome he is.

Before the draft they had him ranked 10th among their prospects. These were the ones ranked ahead of him

1. Juraj Slafkovsky, 84.1% (NA)
2. Kaiden Guhle, 86.2% (-1)
3. Sean Farrell, 47.2% (+8)
4. Justin Barron, 50.4% (NA)
5. Joshua Roy, 38.6% (+15)
6. Filip Mesar, 38.8% (NA)
7. Logan Mailloux, 37.5% (-3)
8. Lane Hutson, 54.8% (NA)
9. Jordan Harris, 54.1% (-3)

I'm guessing if that ranking was done now he would shoot up their ranks and he definitely will when they do the ranking next year.

 

[Guttersniped]

I forgot that we signed Vilen to an ELC so I'm gonna assume he will be playing in the AHL this year. Kind of shows that the organization likes what they have seen since we have taken him. They could have waited another year I believe before offering him his ELC if they were skeptical about giving him one.

Vilén played in his Liiga’s 1st game before coming over, I assumed he was playing there for the season. I was surprised he was here, I wonder if he heads back or stays for camp.

 

[Guadana]

I watched as much of the rookie tournament as I could during what was a busy week for me. I felt the most improved skaters in the line-up were Vilen and Foote. Holtz, too. All of these kids have clearly worked hard on their skating and really upped it a notch. Vilen looked good all around, but I always liked him as a player. My criticism of his pick was more to do with his LD position and middling landing spot on the stacked Devils LD depth chart than with Vilen as an actual player.

I was actually much tougher on the Ethan Edwards pick than the Vilen pick, and Edwards has also improved remarkably since he was drafted, particularly on the defensive side of the puck and in his physical game.

I agree with @My3Sons that it would be appreciated to tag me in these scenarios so that I have an opportunity to defend my positions and analyses. Though on draft day I was skeptical of Vilen's skating, I watched him some this past year and don't believe I've been critical of his skating since what I wrote about him the week he was drafted. Thus, the statement "StevenToddIves has been telling everyone Vilen is a bad skater" is one I'd appreciate the chance to dispute.

Ultimately, I think there's a difference between being critical of a pick than a player. For instance, this past draft I said at length that the Devils would be foolish to draft Logan Cooley at #2 overall. Yet, I never criticized Cooley, whom I was extremely high on all year long. I just thought he made no sense for the organization, since I do not find his upside to be as high as the Devils two young franchise centers in Hughes and Hischier. I think Vilen was a lesser version of this scenario, since of course he was a 5th round pick and not a top 2 overall pick. But again, I lauded Vilen's overall game while remaining somewhat skeptical of the logic in picking him. Conversely, I have absolutely lambasted Devils picks in the past from Baumgartner to Hurtig. This was certainly not the case in this scenario, where I liked the player but was lukewarm on the decision to draft him.

As of today, I would still not rank Vilen or Edwards in the Devils top 5 LD prospects. Of course Luke Hughes is at the top, and I watch enough Russian hockey to realize how people have been sleeping on Mukhamadullin, Misyul, Zaitsev and Orlov -- whom I was very high on leading up to the 2022 draft. I also have been quite vocal in my very high hopes for Okhotyuk, while still believing both Bahl and Vukojevic have solid NHL potential.

But Topias Vilen has achieved -- thus far -- what anyone would hope from an NHL prospect. He has worked his tail off to improve the areas of his game which were in need of improvement, while continuing to develop his strengths. Right now, his development curve has clearly shot upwards and he must be considered a legit NHL prospect, and kudos to the young man for that.

You talked about hundreds of prospects and were partly wrong about some! YOU DONE NOTHING! You, lier-loser. We will never trust you again!

 

[Triumph]

Vilén played in his Liiga’s 1st game before coming over, I assumed he was playing there for the season. I was surprised he was here, I wonder if he heads back or stays for camp.

The announced plan was for him to stay in Finland - I assume he stays for a few days of actual camp if he bothered to come over for the rookie tournament. He doesn't have a European assignment clause though.

 

[TBF1972]

Shara Jack Mercer
Bratt Jerry Palat
Boquist Haula Johnsson
Wood McLeod Bastian
Tatar Hischier Zetterlund

switch zetterlund with johnsson and we have our ADL.

 

[StevenToddIves]

@StevenToddIves Seems like you were right on the button about Owen Beck. I would say he was probably the best player in the tournament. Habs fans weren't that excited about him after the draft but now they are freaking out about how awesome he is.

Before the draft they had him ranked 10th among their prospects. These were the ones ranked ahead of him

1. Juraj Slafkovsky, 84.1% (NA)
2. Kaiden Guhle, 86.2% (-1)
3. Sean Farrell, 47.2% (+8)
4. Justin Barron, 50.4% (NA)
5. Joshua Roy, 38.6% (+15)
6. Filip Mesar, 38.8% (NA)
7. Logan Mailloux, 37.5% (-3)
8. Lane Hutson, 54.8% (NA)
9. Jordan Harris, 54.1% (-3)

I'm guessing if that ranking was done now he would shoot up their ranks and he definitely will when they do the ranking next year.

Beck probably should have been a top 20 pick, and I said this a great deal leading up to the draft. I'd rank him as Montreal's #2 prospect right now after only Slafkovsky, although it's very close between Beck and Guhle. My argument -- beyond Beck's obvious excellence -- was he had every element of a "sleeper" in that his usage was as a clear #2 behind Luca Del Bel Belluz on Mississauga. Beck was deployed in more defensive situations, was mostly on the 2PP unit and did not get the best offensive wingers on his line. Now I'm also a fan of Del Bel Belluz and have stated such, but Beck to me was the far superior player. His speed, hockey sense and compete are off the charts and he has no shortage of high-end skills.

Montreal enjoyed almost a ridiculously good draft this past year, but if everyone else crashes and burns I think it won't matter too much because Slafkovsky should be a superstar NHL winger and Beck should be their long-time, two-way 2C behind Suzuki. It's funny that many Canadiens fans wanted Cooley at #1 if they didn't like Wright because I would not be shocked at all if Beck turned out to have as good an NHL career as Cooley and they got him in the 2nd round. Conversely, I don't see any other winger from the 2022 class having close to the ability of Slafkovsky, whom I've also said -- and still say -- possesses the most upside from the entire 2022 draft class. When you factor in that Montreal also stole Filip Mesar -- who has first line upside as well -- at #26 overall, it's just an absurdly huge draft-day haul for the rebuilding Canadiens.

Right now, here's how I'd rank the Montreal prospects:

1 LW Slafkovsky
2 C Beck
3 LD Guhle
4 RW Mesar
5 RD Barron
6 G Primeau
7 C/LW Mysak
8 LD Hutson
9 C Rohrer
10 C Kapanen

I think this says how highly I think of Montreal's 2022 draft and how lowly I regard their prior drafting. On my list, Slafkovsky, Beck, Mesar, Hutson and Rohrer make the top 10 half 2022 picks and Barron was a trade acquisition. I would also add that I'm shocked that Montreal's own fans are so off in ranking their own prospects -- I guess the hype train there is so loud that people forget to actually watch the prospects. Farrell over Mesar? Logan Mailloux over Beck? I mean, that's pretty nuts to me.

I guess similarly, for the New Jersey Devils we had people saying Reilly Walsh was a top 3 prospect on the team going into last year, so all teams have these issues to contend with to some degree. But at least 90% of Devils fans would be at least in the ballpark putting together a top prospect list. That Canadiens-fans list is bonkers to me.

 

[StevenToddIves]

You talked about hundreds of prospects and were partly wrong about some! YOU DONE NOTHING! You, lier-loser. We will never trust you again!

Yeah, it's a rough business. So I really appreciate when people like @Xirik and @Guttersniped take the time to mention the prospects you look good on. No one will be correct 100% of the time on their assessments about players and people are going to be wrong in certain observations -- especially when it comes to late-round prospects you may have only had the time to scout for two games.

I have a sense of humor about when I'm wrong, and I love it when a player I am skeptical of proves me wrong by becoming better than I thought he could be. You certainly got me good on Edvinsson in the 2021 draft -- the kid looks like a future franchise piece for Detroit and I sorely overemphasized his few flaws when ranking him in the low teens, while you correctly saw him as a future cornerstone NHL defenseman.

But, as I consider whether to return to prospect writing for one more season, I also think of the litany of players who were ignored or overlooked by most draft pundits who I have lauded at length and turned into major players at the NHL level. It's something I'm proud of, and it's a very significant list.

I can guarantee you that if I do return for another year, there will be players I am wrong on. But I think the reason I'm proud of my work is that there have been many more I've been right on, and unlike some prospect/draft writers I've maintained a healthy level of optimism about these young players and their futures. Also, my IQ is probably at least double Byron Bader's, so there's that.

 

[My3Sons]

Yeah, it's a rough business. So I really appreciate when people like @Xirik and @Guttersniped take the time to mention the prospects you look good on. No one will be correct 100% of the time on their assessments about players and people are going to be wrong in certain observations -- especially when it comes to late-round prospects you may have only had the time to scout for two games.

I have a sense of humor about when I'm wrong, and I love it when a player I am skeptical of proves me wrong by becoming better than I thought he could be. You certainly got me good on Edvinsson in the 2021 draft -- the kid looks like a future franchise piece for Detroit and I sorely overemphasized his few flaws when ranking him in the low teens, while you correctly saw him as a future cornerstone NHL defenseman.

But, as I consider whether to return to prospect writing for one more season, I also think of the litany of players who were ignored or overlooked by most draft pundits who I have lauded at length and turned into major players at the NHL level. It's something I'm proud of, and it's a very significant list.

I can guarantee you that if I do return for another year, there will be players I am wrong on. But I think the reason I'm proud of my work is that there have been many more I've been right on, and unlike some prospect/draft writers I've maintained a healthy level of optimism about these young players and their futures. Also, my IQ is probably at least double Byron Bader's, so there's that.

You need to do the prospect writing. Do you have any idea what could happen if you forced me to go to the main board to get my information? Friends don’t let friends get prospect information from people with axes to grind.