Proposed Rule Changes

[1857 Howitzer]

The way that college coaches have pitched it, it would be for a skater leaving his feet to block a shot. The standing block and a sliding block (on a 2-on-1, taking away the pass) would remain, but skaters basically acting like mobile butterfly goalies would be outlawed.



From my perspective, the improvements in equipment over the years have taken away the "sacrifice" and "heart" involved in blocking shots. It's become the lowest common denominator; 99% of players do it well, which is a pretty good indicator that it's less of a skill than it used to be.

To me, it would be like legalizing pass interference in football. If there's a defensive player who can't contain a receiver, just pull him down...it's basically a talentless play that suffocates the offense without repercussion.

Blowing the play dead and having a faceoff would actually serve as an incentive to engage in the most boring play in hockey.

Good point. I'm not sure how you enforce it then without being penalty. Maybe a penalty shot? Or do you allow it but take some of the protection away?

 

[Mayor Bee]

Good point. I'm not sure how you enforce it then without being penalty. Maybe a penalty shot? Or do you allow it but take some of the protection away?

The easiest way would be to just make it a penalty. A skater could slide to take away a pass or stand to take away a shot, but leaving one or both feet to block a shot would be a minor penalty.

And as Marc Methot showed repeatedly while he was here, a defender kicking at a puck is likely to end up in the back of the net.

 

[1857 Howitzer]

The easiest way would be to just make it a penalty. A skater could slide to take away a pass or stand to take away a shot, but leaving one or both feet to block a shot would be a minor penalty.

And as Marc Methot showed repeatedly while he was here, a defender kicking at a puck is likely to end up in the back of the net.

Makes since, but it does give the refs another chance to be inconstant on something else.

What we really need is lasers and robots!

 

[Sore Loser]

I think all three are a fine idea.

 

[Zarathustra]

The way that college coaches have pitched it, it would be for a skater leaving his feet to block a shot. The standing block and a sliding block (on a 2-on-1, taking away the pass) would remain, but skaters basically acting like mobile butterfly goalies would be outlawed.



From my perspective, the improvements in equipment over the years have taken away the "sacrifice" and "heart" involved in blocking shots. It's become the lowest common denominator; 99% of players do it well, which is a pretty good indicator that it's less of a skill than it used to be.

To me, it would be like legalizing pass interference in football. If there's a defensive player who can't contain a receiver, just pull him down...it's basically a talentless play that suffocates the offense without repercussion.

Blowing the play dead and having a faceoff would actually serve as an incentive to engage in the most boring play in hockey.

I'm a little confused by "leaving his feet." Wouldn't laying on the ice to block a pass technically be leaving your feet? Also, what is someone gets tripped up and falls? If it were a penalty, I can see opposing players trying to hit fallen players with the puck in an attempt to draw a penalty.

 

[EspenK]

As usual I'm going to be in the minority here, but these Jackets' wins on this streak to me have been pretty boring. Its been like watching midgets skating up and down the ice without getting a good shot or any shot for that matter. Give me an occasional 5-4 or 6-5 game and I'd be happier. Make the goalie equipment smaller.

 

[pete goegan]

From my perspective, the improvements in equipment over the years have taken away the "sacrifice" and "heart" involved in blocking shots. It's become the lowest common denominator; 99% of players do it well, which is a pretty good indicator that it's less of a skill than it used to be.

Sure seem to be quite a number guys limping off, though, and not a few of them are out for a period of time.

To me, it would be like legalizing pass interference in football. If there's a defensive player who can't contain a receiver, just pull him down...it's basically a talentless play that suffocates the offense without repercussion.

Wouldn't it be more like a pass rusher putting his arms up and blocking a pass?

 

[Mayor Bee]

Wouldn't it be more like a pass rusher putting his arms up and blocking a pass?

Fair enough. Of course, that's still interference unless it's ruled that the defender was making a play on the ball.

 

[pete goegan]

Fair enough. Of course, that's still interference unless it's ruled that the defender was making a play on the ball.

We may not be talking about the same thing, MB, interference involves contact with the receiver.

 

[Mayor Bee]

We may not be talking about the same thing, MB, interference involves contact with the receiver.

I was going for the face-guarding provision of the rule, which the NFL removed a few years back. I know in high school, it's still there. And interference in high school isn't limited to catchable passes either; if it's 20 yards out of bounds but there's contact downfield, it still gets called.

 

[pete goegan]

I was going for the face-guarding provision of the rule, which the NFL removed a few years back. I know in high school, it's still there. And interference in high school isn't limited to catchable passes either; if it's 20 yards out of bounds but there's contact downfield, it still gets called.

I believe shot blocking in hockey is more analogous to defensive linemen batting down passes at the line of scrimmage.

 

[major major]

From my perspective, the improvements in equipment over the years have taken away the "sacrifice" and "heart" involved in blocking shots. It's become the lowest common denominator; 99% of players do it well, which is a pretty good indicator that it's less of a skill than it used to be.

I don't agree. I'm not familiar with any new equipment that can keep a 90 mph shot from breaking your foot. Maybe there is new equipment somewhere that is having an effect, but guys get hurt almost every game blocking shots.

I think more players do it because coaches have made it mandatory, if you don't block you don't play. It's still a huge sacrifice.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I don't agree. I'm not familiar with any new equipment that can keep a 90 mph shot from breaking your foot. Maybe there is new equipment somewhere that is having an effect, but guys get hurt almost every game blocking shots.

I think more players do it because coaches have made it mandatory, if you don't block you don't play. It's still a huge sacrifice.

Hal Gill was the first one I can remember who had actual external pads on his skates. Before that, I remember Bauer selling some type of goop in a can. The stuff looked like tar and smelled even worse, but the idea was to basically add this to the outside of the skate. It would harden, and thus dampen the impact of a puck hitting the foot.

There was a time when taking a shot off the foot meant that it was broken, and that taking a shot off the shin (unless you were Craig Ludwig, who'd park his truck on top of his shin guards) would at least sideline you for a couple of games. With a couple of notable exceptions (like Wisniewski), most guys are coming up with a limp and nothing more.

I believe shot blocking in hockey is more analogous to defensive linemen batting down passes at the line of scrimmage.

I disagree, mostly because the prevalence of shot blocking in the NHL is so much higher than in the NFL.

I'll give one team. Colorado has played 29 games so far this season, and they have allowed 939 shots on goal. They also have blocked 511 shot attempts, and another 295 missed the target completely without being blocked. That means that out of 1,745 attempted shots:
- 939 reached either the goalie or the back of the net (53.8%)
- 511 were blocked by a defender before reaching goal (29.3%)
- 295 missed completely (16.9%)

These aren't shockingly skewed numbers either. The average number of blocked shots per game has been in the 27-29 range for a couple of years now.

Now, in the NFL, here's what we have. In 2012, Houston led the league in passes defended. This includes passes tipped at the line or downfield by someone either swatting the ball away or attempting to intercept a pass (and failing). They had 124 PDs (which led the league) and 15 interceptions. There were 581 actual pass attempts against the Texans. Of course, passing is only part of the game; Houston had another 390 rushing attempts against.

So out of a total of 971 offensive plays against, 12.77% involved a pass being knocked down...or maybe it was an attempted interception that didn't go. Also keep in mind that Houston's defense this year was a major story because of their front 7 (particularly JJ Watt) seeming to get their hands on a huge percentage of passes. But no one talks about Colorado's shot blocking in the NHL, because everyone has these huge numbers of blocked shots. We may talk about the Rangers, but they're 6th in the league right now and didn't lead the league last year either.

We're talking about 25% of the attempted shots in the league.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=49597889&postcount=204

 

[Robert]

No brainer.... institute all three....

 

[major major]

More and more folks are calling for extending overtime another 5 minutes.

I'm also tiring of shootouts, and it seems many others are too. We will likely hear more proposals for ending games that don't involve shootouts, although I'd be fine with just reducing the number of shootouts. Make them unusual.

I would have another 5 minutes added to overtime with 3 skaters a side. I think it would make for some really exciting hockey and a lot more hockey endings (i.e. not shootout endings.)

 

[georgiabluejacket]

Makes since, but it does give the refs another chance to be inconstant on something else.

What we really need is lasers and robots!

Let's be far here, everything needs lasers

 

[db2011]

Hal Gill was the first one I can remember who had actual external pads on his skates. Before that, I remember Bauer selling some type of goop in a can. The stuff looked like tar and smelled even worse, but the idea was to basically add this to the outside of the skate. It would harden, and thus dampen the impact of a puck hitting the foot.

There was a time when taking a shot off the foot meant that it was broken, and that taking a shot off the shin (unless you were Craig Ludwig, who'd park his truck on top of his shin guards) would at least sideline you for a couple of games. With a couple of notable exceptions (like Wisniewski), most guys are coming up with a limp and nothing more.



I disagree, mostly because the prevalence of shot blocking in the NHL is so much higher than in the NFL.

I'll give one team. Colorado has played 29 games so far this season, and they have allowed 939 shots on goal. They also have blocked 511 shot attempts, and another 295 missed the target completely without being blocked. That means that out of 1,745 attempted shots:
- 939 reached either the goalie or the back of the net (53.8%)
- 511 were blocked by a defender before reaching goal (29.3%)
- 295 missed completely (16.9%)

These aren't shockingly skewed numbers either. The average number of blocked shots per game has been in the 27-29 range for a couple of years now.

Now, in the NFL, here's what we have. In 2012, Houston led the league in passes defended. This includes passes tipped at the line or downfield by someone either swatting the ball away or attempting to intercept a pass (and failing). They had 124 PDs (which led the league) and 15 interceptions. There were 581 actual pass attempts against the Texans. Of course, passing is only part of the game; Houston had another 390 rushing attempts against.

So out of a total of 971 offensive plays against, 12.77% involved a pass being knocked down...or maybe it was an attempted interception that didn't go. Also keep in mind that Houston's defense this year was a major story because of their front 7 (particularly JJ Watt) seeming to get their hands on a huge percentage of passes. But no one talks about Colorado's shot blocking in the NHL, because everyone has these huge numbers of blocked shots. We may talk about the Rangers, but they're 6th in the league right now and didn't lead the league last year either.

We're talking about 25% of the attempted shots in the league.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=49597889&postcount=204

Well, are you saying that shot blocking in the NHL has no comparison? Pete was saying it compares more to defensive linemen batting down passes at the line than it does to secondary players defensing passes at the point of reception. I'm inclined to agree with him. Corners defensing passes seems more analogous to goaltenders stopping shots. Anyway, it seems like you're analysis doesn't correspond to his point.

Also, it seems like if you want to compare pass attempts in football to shots on goal in hockey statistically, shouldn't you NOT include rushing attempts in the overall tally? Your percentages wind up different if you include plays that have no NHL comparison (rushing attempts). Your 12.77% represents total offensive plays against, which means passes defensed suffers on rushing plays. What would the number be on just passing plays?

 

[db2011]

Let's be far here, everything needs lasers

far out

 

[jdhebner]

I'm sure as hell in favor of Eye protection. I wrote an article for our local newspaper soon after the Bryan Berard incident (waaaay back in 2000). I got to interview an NHL player whose career was basically saved by his wearing a visor. If I can dig it up I''ll post it.

 

[georgiabluejacket]

far out

I did spell fair wrong didn't I. That's what I get for posting at 1 in the morning when I should be working

 

[Columbus Mike]

More and more folks are calling for extending overtime another 5 minutes.

I'm also tiring of shootouts, and it seems many others are too. We will likely hear more proposals for ending games that don't involve shootouts, although I'd be fine with just reducing the number of shootouts. Make them unusual.

I would have another 5 minutes added to overtime with 3 skaters a side. I think it would make for some really exciting hockey and a lot more hockey endings (i.e. not shootout endings.)

I'm not opposed to this, but only if you get three points for a regulation win. I hate that games settled by gimmicks are worth the same as those won the old fashioned way.

3 pts for regulation win
2 pts for OT/SO win
1 pt for OT/SO loss

Or, just let there be ties.

 

[Jackets16]

I'm not opposed to this, but only if you get three points for a regulation win. I hate that games settled by gimmicks are worth the same as those won the old fashioned way.

3 pts for regulation win
2 pts for OT/SO win
1 pt for OT/SO loss

Or, just let there be ties.

A friend and I were talking about this last week. That is basically what we came up with.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Well, are you saying that shot blocking in the NHL has no comparison? Pete was saying it compares more to defensive linemen batting down passes at the line than it does to secondary players defensing passes at the point of reception. I'm inclined to agree with him. Corners defensing passes seems more analogous to goaltenders stopping shots. Anyway, it seems like you're analysis doesn't correspond to his point.

The rule for defensive players getting their hands on a pass is to just get a hand on it. If it's swatted down, great. If it's popped up in the air, that's even better. A good number of interceptions come off of tipped passes. How many breakaways going the other way come off of a blocked shot?

Also, it seems like if you want to compare pass attempts in football to shots on goal in hockey statistically, shouldn't you NOT include rushing attempts in the overall tally? Your percentages wind up different if you include plays that have no NHL comparison (rushing attempts). Your 12.77% represents total offensive plays against, which means passes defensed suffers on rushing plays. What would the number be on just passing plays?

The number is 21.3% if you go with just passing plays. But I'll argue that rushing attempts should/I] be included. The first purpose of the offense is to get the ball into the end zone. That can be done with either running or passing. But in hockey, where the point is to put the puck into the net, the only way that happens (okay, in 99.9% of cases) is by a shot being taken by an offensive player.

 

[db2011]

The rule for defensive players getting their hands on a pass is to just get a hand on it. If it's swatted down, great. If it's popped up in the air, that's even better. A good number of interceptions come off of tipped passes. How many breakaways going the other way come off of a blocked shot?

Ha, you may want to ask Rangers fans that question, but phrase it "how many short-handed empty net goals are scored off blocked Marian Gaborik shots?"

The number is 21.3% if you go with just passing plays. But I'll argue that rushing attempts should/I] be included. The first purpose of the offense is to get the ball into the end zone. That can be done with either running or passing. But in hockey, where the point is to put the puck into the net, the only way that happens (okay, in 99.9% of cases) is by a shot being taken by an offensive player.

still chewing on this. trying to decide then whether passes in hockey that are either not completed or intercepted should be included, since you're offering a global understanding of football offense but a partial view of hockey offense. I'm inclined to say that because the two sports are so different, a statistical comparison of them shouldn't be used to support an argument for penalizing blocked shots in hockey.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I'm inclined to say that because the two sports are so different, a statistical comparison of them shouldn't be used to support an argument for penalizing blocked shots in hockey.

Fair enough.