Proposal: Proposal Werenski - Murray

[Crede777]

You forgot the

Murray will likely be the Penguins starter for the next decade...and he's good...Stanley Cup good. Why would we trade him for a LD that we don't exactly need right now...especially one that hasn't played a NHL game?

And what makes you think the difference between a rookie Cup winning goalie and a 0 game NHL dman prospect is a 2nd round pick?

You could offer Boone Jenner and Zach Werenski and I still doubt the Pens consider it.

Because if there's one thing teams should bank on, it's early success by a young goaltender.

 

[BernieParent]

More to the point, those trends exist because historically goaltender performance is notoriously unreliable and unpredictable except in a few very rare cases, and most folks (when contemplating changing their goaltenders) tend to prefer to roll the dice with a new youngster rather than go for one of the predictable ones anyways.

Exactly. The NHL history books are filled with hot rookie goaltenders and top prospects who flamed out as quickly as they became stars. I'm not predicting this will happen to Murray but the position itself is so difficult to track.

 

[Freeptop]

What do you guys Think about Zach Werenski and a 2nd round pick for Matt Murray? who should add? and how much?
* Do not think at the fact pitts need murray. just talk about the value. cant wait to hear your opinion

If we can't look at the fact that the Pens need Murray, how do you judge value? Value always depends on context. Supply and demand. (Which is why goalies generally tend to not go for much, because the supply of goalies is usually higher than the demand for them... and the ones who would get more of a return are rarely ever available in the first place).

In this case, the Pens have no interest in moving Murray. Which means that the price to pry him away is higher than it would be if they offered him up on the open market. Simply put, they have no interest in trading him. And why would they? This is the kid who just backstopped them to the Stanley Cup, and is still on an ELC for another season. Seems like a silly time to trade him away.

 

[SEALBound]

Because if there's one thing teams should bank on, it's early success by a young goaltender.

Murray is hardly a flash in the pan candidate. He has dominated at every level, including setting records in the AHL, being rookie of the year in the AHL, and transferring his abilities seemlessly to the NHL...where he led the Pens to a Cup.

I get what you're saying, but most young Cup winning goalies go on to have decent careers.

Certainly not worth trading him for a LD we don't exactly need and a 2nd round pick.

 

[trade2alex]

If we can't look at the fact that the Pens need Murray, how do you judge value? Value always depends on context. Supply and demand. (Which is why goalies generally tend to not go for much, because the supply of goalies is usually higher than the demand for them... and the ones who would get more of a return are rarely ever available in the first place).

Fantasy League but based on NHL stats.

 

[Viqsi]

Murray is hardly a flash in the pan candidate. He has dominated at every level, including setting records in the AHL, being rookie of the year in the AHL, and transferring his abilities seemlessly to the NHL...where he led the Pens to a Cup.

I get what you're saying, but most young Cup winning goalies go on to have decent careers.

Certainly not worth trading him for a LD we don't exactly need and a 2nd round pick.

Yes, yes, we get it, your young goaltender is hot right now and you love him. Heck, he just might even have a killer career even if things don't take off immediately - Steve Mason's managed to pull that off.

But stop pretending that this is in any way beneficial for Columbus just because He Who Must Never Be Named was named. There isn't a winner in this proposal.

 

[Viqsi]

Fantasy League but based on NHL stats.

I would then suggest either taking it up on the fantasy discussion boards if you're legitimately interested in this from a fantasy league perspective, or otherwise learning that it's called "fantasy" and not "reality" for a reason. Even fantasy league trades are based on needs and context.

 

[bleuetbio]

As good was Matt Murray during the playoffs, I would take Werensky before him without hesitation. Zach is in the Hanifin-Provorov section

 

[OCPenguin]

In terms of LD, the Penguins already have Pouliot, Dumoulin and Maatta as under 24 NHL defensemen. I really don't see a reason why they'd trade for Werenski, especially while sacrificing something they can't really afford to give up.

I don't really see why the Jackets would need Murray either. Don't they already have Korpisalo and Forsberg as pretty good goalie prospects?

Pouliot is a complete mystery. Let's not think he is a solution. This is his make or break season with Pittsburgh. After Justin schultz, another question, we are short on depth on the blueline. The kid from Sweden that we signed could help; Prow maybe in a year or two (not this year). There is a reason why we used a 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks on D.

I don't see any reason either Columbus would trade Werenski when you consider that franchise has needed Dmen for a while. That said, the value is there.

 

[Barness01]

Absolutely awful value for Columbus.


PIT would be the ones adding, and it would be a significant add.

I doubt it considering Matt Murray has carried his his team to a cup, and Werenski hasn't even played an NHL game yet.

 

[OCPenguin]

Sorry to pit fans but a decent chunk would be needed to Murray to get Werenski. This deal is really bad for CBJ, the fact that they add is near insulting

You didn't watch the playoffs apparently and the goalie who won the Cup for Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh doesn't add in this, especially for a D prospect who hasn't played a single NHL game. The fact you think it takes more for Pittsburgh suggests you have little clue.

 

[OCPenguin]

Absolutely awful value for Columbus.


PIT would be the ones adding, and it would be a significant add.

This post is evidence of someone who lacks hockey IQ. Yep, Pittsburgh would be the ones who have to add for a Dman that hasn't played a single minute or second in the NHL for a young goalie that went 9-2-1 with a 2.00 gga and a .930 save percentage in the regular season and posted a 15-6 record with a 2.08 gaa in the playoffs and won a Cup.

Get some knowledge.

 

[Cowumbus]

You forgot the

Murray will likely be the Penguins starter for the next decade...and he's good...Stanley Cup good. Why would we trade him for a LD that we don't exactly need right now...especially one that hasn't played a NHL game?

And what makes you think the difference between a rookie Cup winning goalie and a 0 game NHL dman prospect is a 2nd round pick?

You could offer Boone Jenner and Zach Werenski and I still doubt the Pens consider it.

Completely asinine to say no to Jenner + Werenski doesn't get Murray. Goalies don't have a lot of value, for all we know Murray could be the next Cam Ward. Dont act like he is the sole reason the Pena won the cup.. You have 2 of the best centers and the league and two stud dmen. Winning a cup does not make his value higher either. Is Connor Sheary more valuable than Werenski Bc he won a cup as a rookie too?

 

[Cowumbus]

This post is evidence of someone who lacks hockey IQ. Yep, Pittsburgh would be the ones who have to add for a Dman that hasn't played a single minute or second in the NHL for a young goalie that went 9-2-1 with a 2.00 gga and a .930 save percentage in the regular season and posted a 15-6 record with a 2.08 gaa in the playoffs and won a Cup.

Get some knowledge.

Schneider is a much better goalie then Murray and he was traded for pennies on the dollar. My hockey IQ is so wrong, gosh I wish I could have the Stanley Cup winner Sheary instead of that 0 NHL games played Jack Werenski guy. Smh.

 

[Crede777]

This post is evidence of someone who lacks hockey IQ. Yep, Pittsburgh would be the ones who have to add for a Dman that hasn't played a single minute or second in the NHL for a young goalie that went 9-2-1 with a 2.00 gga and a .930 save percentage in the regular season and posted a 15-6 record with a 2.08 gaa in the playoffs and won a Cup.

Get some knowledge.

Go look at every return for a goaltender who has been traded in the last 5 years.

Then come back. Or don't.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

The first post wasn't designed to foster friendly conversation.

Pastries for thought.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Based on what the OP states, no, this is not a good deal for Columbus.

 

[OCPenguin]

As good was Matt Murray during the playoffs, I would take Werensky before him without hesitation. Zach is in the Hanifin-Provorov section

LOL ... he was good before the play-offs. Not just the play-offs. Yep, I would take an unproven Dman at the NHL level over a young goalie who won the Cup for the Pens. And if young Dman turns out to be (insert your failed prospect), then would you have a change of heart. Let's wait and see what Werenski does in the NHL. I know what I have in Murray. Columbus has no clue what they truly has in Werenski. All they have is performance on the AHL level.

I've seen the kid play when he was at Michigan. Talented kid. Doesn't mean he is going to be a star in the NHL. We have seen this movie before many times.

 

[OCPenguin]

Based on what the OP states, no, this is not a good deal for Columbus.

Again, there is no level of success by Werenski on the NHL level. Not even a second. So, it's not a good deal? Funny, I think there are many teams in the NHL that would do this deal. Pittsburgh wouldn't, because it would be trading a Cup winner and a pretty good young, dare I say proven (won the Cup) goalie for a talented kid that hasn't played in the NHL.

Dallas wouldn't hesitate making a deal like this to get Murray. After all, if they had Murray, instead of the garbage they have now, they might have won the Cup.

 

[cslebn]

Again, there is no level of success by Werenski on the NHL level. Not even a second. So, it's not a good deal? Funny, I think there are many teams in the NHL that would do this deal. Pittsburgh wouldn't, because it would be trading a Cup winner and a pretty good young, dare I say proven (won the Cup) goalie for a talented kid that hasn't played in the NHL.

Dallas wouldn't hesitate making a deal like this to get Murray. After all, if they had Murray, instead of the garbage they have now, they might have won the Cup.

Take a step back. Most people in this thread are just saying to prospects don't get traded for goalies.

The only goalie in the league that might, might, warrant that is price.

 

[Dying Alive]

Take a step back. Most people in this thread are just saying to prospects don't get traded for goalies.

The only goalie in the league that might, might, warrant that is price.

I understand the idea of goalies not returning huge packages but anyone who thinks an NHL team without an absolutely top tier goalie wouldn't trade a prospect - even a sure fire one - for Carey Price is out of their mind. There are very few exceptions unless you're talking a Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin franchise player level prospect.

People go so overboard on potential here that they ignore proven success.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Again, there is no level of success by Werenski on the NHL level. Not even a second. So, it's not a good deal?

Based on what the OP said (pure value), it's not a good deal for Columbus. Goalies historically don't return as much as skaters of the same talent level would.

Pittsburgh wouldn't make this trade in the NHL, but based on what we've seen, it's a poor value trade for Columbus.

 

[cslebn]

I understand the idea of goalies not returning huge packages but anyone who thinks an NHL team without an absolutely top tier goalie wouldn't trade a prospect - even a sure fire one - for Carey Price is out of their mind. There are very few exceptions unless you're talking a Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin franchise player level prospect.

People go so overboard on potential here that they ignore proven success.

Generally I'd agree with you. But we're talking about goalies here. Far too much history argues counter to goalies. Until a guy maintains for multiple years he could just be another Mike Smith, Cam ward, JS Giguere, Bryzgalov, Raycroft, lindback, Howard, mason, halak, lehtonen, etc etc.

Yeah done guys have had sold careers but most were more mediocre than a franchise savior ala Brodeur or Roy. Consistency is the hardest thing to come by with a goalie.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

I just don't think a young (albeit successful) goaltender is an area of need for the Jackets. Bob isn't old, even though he has struggled the last two seasons... But Korpisalo looked very good in the NHL last season (.920 in 31 games), Forsberg just went undefeated in the AHL playoffs, save percentage at .949, and Merzlikins won NLA goalie of the year (.937 playoffs, .920 reg season). All 23 or younger.

It doesn't make sense to trade Werenski for a goalie right now, especially considering one of our top 4 D - Johnson or Savard will likely be claimed in expansion, forcing Werenski to be a top 4 guy by 2017-2018.

I think the Penguins would be better off keeping Murray as their number one anyways.

 

[Riptide]

What do you guys Think about Zach Werenski and a 2nd round pick for Matt Murray? who should add? and how much?
* Do not think at the fact pitts need murray. just talk about the value. cant wait to hear your opinion

PIT passes. CBJ probably does too, but there's not many reasons why PIT would do this. They have Pouliot and Schultz who are both offensive PMD and just signed a couple young offensive/PMD as FAs. So while their blueline could still use some more prospects, they do not need them immediately and certainly not at the expense of Murray.