Proof is in the Pudding - John Tavares

[moon111]

History. John Tavares is drafted 1st overall in 2009 by the New York Islanders. Immediately he leads the team in scoring. It's his job. Someone has to. It's what his team needs. Now one of the problems with this situation, Tavares is constantly pushing the offense. If he doesn't, you're keeping your fingers crossed with the rest of the roster that you don't get shut-out. Much like Reilly, the offense in their careers has taken precedence over playing two-way hockey.

The Pudding. John Tavares is a decent offensive player, but he's not outscoring the opposition. And the playoffs, it only gets worst. In the last two seasons, which winds up being only 12 playoff games, he has managed to be tied for 45th overall in the league for even-strength goals against. Bozak who's been played almost three times as many playoff games in that time has only been on for two more then Tavares. Joe Thornton in the same time frame was on the ice for the same amount of goals against, but managed to also be one for 50% more goals for. The goalies are consistently doing worst with Tavares on the ice with 90.8-90.9 save percentages.

Leadership. Did you know the Leafs signed a captain? Got use to there not being one for so long, it made me forget we are suppose to have some leadership on this team now. As a leader, he wouldn't even look at the camera during the End Of Season interview where he spewed a bunch of 'Umms' until the question popped up should the Leafs make changes on the roster. Kind of quick to answer that one. Really think John Tavares should be looking at himself first. The money is on the table, now deliver without excuses.

What to do? It's obvious that John Tavares is a player like Jake Gardiner that teams can focus on to score more then he can. Unlike Gardiner, we're stuck with Tavares and his NTC. The Leafs can ill-afford to play Tavares with a huge puck-handler that despite their best efforts, can be prone to turn the puck over. Move Nylander to the 3rd line, put Hyman on his RW or something. He needs solid defensive wingers to baby-sit his game. Offense suffers, so be it. The game is to score more then the opposition, not just score more.

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[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I've never seen anyone else analyze a player based on how goalies perform when they're on the ice

 

[mclaren55]

Seems like a big reach after a disappointing season.

 

[Chief Berube]

Ok the moment you compared JT to Gardiner is the moment I was able to confirm this is not a serious post. Jake Gardiner is like 14 tiers below what JT is. JT is a good Player in his own zone. He isn't Kopitar or Mathews good but he is good... The only thing I agree with is that JT is NOT the leader this team needs.

 

[Marshy]

Proof this team can't have nice things.

 

[koyvoo]

Look at the bright side. At least we’re not into him for too many years at too much money.

 

[Bomber0104]

As one of the only marquee unrestricted free agents to willingly come to Toronto in franchise history, I find it very hard to criticize John Tavares, period.

The contract is going to suck eventually but that's the nature of the beast when you're signing players to max contracts past their prime.

Let's just hope that's at least a couple more seasons away.

 

[Budz]

Delete

 

[Havoc]

I dunno. JT was buzzing all playoffs just couldn't finish. He really only had one glaring mistake after Leafs owned the play the entire overtime. Toe drag gone wrong.

He's still an elite center. His expiry date has not come yet.

edit- For what it's worth, a commentator in one of the games I watched made a very good point. He said an offensive player not finishing on what should be a goal is equivalent to your top dmen committing brutal turnovers. So yeah Tavares does have a lot of responsibility in this loss. Needs to come in next season and bury these.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

I'm tired of every year saying the next will be better. And here I go about to do the most Leaf fan thing possible. I think next year is going to be better, why? Because I truly think these guys are gifted hockey players and now they KNOW if it is another first round exist. One of the big 4 is gone. Guaranteed.

I'm hoping for more passion, even if it comes from being scared of losing your job on the team you love. I think Tavares comes out swinging and the boys go hard.

But like I said. I say something to this effect every year. Think I might just copy and paste this into a few threads that will inevitably come up this offseason about the boys.

Have a good one.

 

[Duke Silver]

History. John Tavares is drafted 1st overall in 2009 by the New York Islanders. Immediately he leads the team in scoring. It's his job. Someone has to. It's what his team needs. Now one of the problems with this situation, Tavares is constantly pushing the offense. If he doesn't, you're keeping your fingers crossed with the rest of the roster that you don't get shut-out. Much like Reilly, the offense in their careers has taken precedence over playing two-way hockey.

The Pudding. John Tavares is a decent offensive player, but he's not outscoring the opposition. And the playoffs, it only gets worst. In the last two seasons, which winds up being only 12 playoff games, he has managed to be tied for 45th overall in the league for even-strength goals against. Bozak who's been played almost three times as many playoff games in that time has only been on for two more then Tavares. Joe Thornton in the same time frame was on the ice for the same amount of goals against, but managed to also be one for 50% more goals for. The goalies are consistently doing worst with Tavares on the ice with 90.8-90.9 save percentages.

Leadership. Did you know the Leafs signed a captain? Got use to there not being one for so long, it made me forget we are suppose to have some leadership on this team now. As a leader, he wouldn't even look at the camera during the End Of Season interview where he spewed a bunch of 'Umms' until the question popped up should the Leafs make changes on the roster. Kind of quick to answer that one. Really think John Tavares should be looking at himself first. The money is on the table, now deliver without excuses.

What to do? It's obvious that John Tavares is a player like Jake Gardiner that teams can focus on to score more then he can. Unlike Gardiner, we're stuck with Tavares and his NTC. The Leafs can ill-afford to play Tavares with a huge puck-handler that despite their best efforts, can be prone to turn the puck over. Move Nylander to the 3rd line, put Hyman on his RW or something. He needs solid defensive wingers to baby-sit his game. Offense suffers, so be it. The game is to score more then the opposition, not just score more.

One of the worst things I have ever read on these boards, and that's saying something.

I've actually started and backspaced this response so many times because I didn't know where to start.

You associate Tavares having the lowest on-ice save percentage among Leafs forwards with him having defensive deficiencies... yet you neglect to reference the disparity between his actual and expected GF% or acknowledge how faulty it is to blame one player for how his goaltender performed. This is plus/minus level analysis.

You use Totals stats instead of Rates stats.

You then assume the mantle of expert body language analyst by saying he was looking at the ground too much in post-elimination interviews.

Then you make some sort of asinine comparison between Tavares and Jake Gardiner, in some ill-conceived attempt to say they are too offense-first, based on your wrong and incomplete interpretation of team save percentage.

And your suggestion to fix things is to put Nylander (hahahaha of COURSE it's Nylander), a 30-goal, 70-point scorer on the third line so you can put some defensively responsible wingers on Tavares' wings, to fix these non-existent defensive issues?

I'm just speechless.

 

[Machinae]

Matthews > JT >>> Marner > Nylander

Tavares has been fantastic since day 1 and carried Marner to his payday.. If there is fat to trim on this roster, it's the bum wingers that don't play hard or show up in the clutch. Our centers are elite and were two of the only bright spots in that Columbus series.

 

[stickty111]

This entire thread post made no sense. First you blame Tavares for the goalie problem, and then question his leadership based on what he looks at during interviews?
Yikes bad post is bad
In the middle of all that, typical of you to put in a Bozak appreciation comment as well.

The last point of this OP summed up all the problems with your post.
It's like when you judged players based on 1st assists a player had.

 

[Menzinger]

Tavares on his debut season had literally one of the best of any Leafs centre in the history of the organization.

Even during a down year when he had an injury he was still almost a ppg.

He's not a problem

 

[Scruffers]

Ignoring OP's idiotic points, I'm in the camp that loves Tavares but thinks that Dubas signing him was an egregious, irreversible, franchise-crushing mistake. I also don't believe that he's the right leader for this team.

Never really understood why he was made captain over Rielly. Our players thrive off of momentum and energy, and you can't depend on Tavares for those things. He's quiet, reserved, and monotone, and while there's nothing wrong with any of those traits, I think this team would have benefited from following the leadership of someone like Rielly who displays a lot more passion and energy on the ice.

 

[stickty111]

Hopefully this thread gets deservedly closed.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tavares on his debut season had literally one of the best of any Leafs centre in the history of the organization.

Even during a down year when he had an injury he was still almost a ppg.

He's not a problem

Besides that Tavares had the best first season when a player signs with a new team as a UFA.

Look at UFA busts like David Clarkson that Toronto had previously signed.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

There is always something that gets picked apart for our players. I think this concern missed the mark. He actually had a really rough year. Frustrated missing shots etc. I don’t think he would say he had a good year. He most likely would say it was terrible because they did not advance.

Still managed to be a top scorer for us. I should add, the top 4 carried the team consistently and Hyman was right there clutch for us also.

we need better defense and some leadership that has Jam in the bottom 6. Then we will be more consistent and well rounded. Hard to put a knock on any of our top guys.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Hopefully this thread gets deservedly closed.

It doesn’t need to. The comments are fixing the misconception by the Op I’m pretty sure.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

History. John Tavares is drafted 1st overall in 2009 by the New York Islanders. Immediately he leads the team in scoring. It's his job. Someone has to. It's what his team needs. Now one of the problems with this situation, Tavares is constantly pushing the offense. If he doesn't, you're keeping your fingers crossed with the rest of the roster that you don't get shut-out. Much like Reilly, the offense in their careers has taken precedence over playing two-way hockey.

The Pudding. John Tavares is a decent offensive player, but he's not outscoring the opposition. And the playoffs, it only gets worst. In the last two seasons, which winds up being only 12 playoff games, he has managed to be tied for 45th overall in the league for even-strength goals against. Bozak who's been played almost three times as many playoff games in that time has only been on for two more then Tavares. Joe Thornton in the same time frame was on the ice for the same amount of goals against, but managed to also be one for 50% more goals for. The goalies are consistently doing worst with Tavares on the ice with 90.8-90.9 save percentages.

Leadership. Did you know the Leafs signed a captain? Got use to there not being one for so long, it made me forget we are suppose to have some leadership on this team now. As a leader, he wouldn't even look at the camera during the End Of Season interview where he spewed a bunch of 'Umms' until the question popped up should the Leafs make changes on the roster. Kind of quick to answer that one. Really think John Tavares should be looking at himself first. The money is on the table, now deliver without excuses.

What to do? It's obvious that John Tavares is a player like Jake Gardiner that teams can focus on to score more then he can. Unlike Gardiner, we're stuck with Tavares and his NTC. The Leafs can ill-afford to play Tavares with a huge puck-handler that despite their best efforts, can be prone to turn the puck over. Move Nylander to the 3rd line, put Hyman on his RW or something. He needs solid defensive wingers to baby-sit his game. Offense suffers, so be it. The game is to score more then the opposition, not just score more.

To much Rum in that pudding

 

[HellasLEAF]

Look at the bright side. At least we’re not into him for too many years at too much money.

lol

 

[Mickey Marner]

Is typing out disjointed grievances some sort of catharsis for you?

 

[Calper]

I love John. I love that he loves the Leafs.
I think history will show it was a bad signing though.

I think we would have been better off:
Mathews/Kadri at centre.
Lesser $ contracts to the other big 3.
Matthews named captain.
Significantly more cap and Dubas has shown he can deal.

You know I can't agree more. Yes JT is a great player but lets be honest. If the leadership of this team truly believed Mathews was going to become the elite centre he was suppose to become. Can someone please tell me why or who in their right mind would pay a second line centre 11 million per year? Also agree that without the JT signing MM, AM and WN all would have had smaller contracts. AM knew with that signing he would hit pay dirt. He is better and have to be paid that way and unfortunately AM gets the money well MM was their leading scorer so he too wants the money. This then prevents the team from adding the needed D that is so incredibly required to get to the next level.

 

[Stephen]

Before Tavares became a Leaf, I always thought he was a little overrated and kind of a Hockey Canada darling compared to some of his early career comparables like Toews (remember thoes JT vs JT debates) and Steven Stamkos (OHL product and first overall one year apart). He seems like a highly respected person and player, but just feels like his reputation is a little bit inflated based on his shift to shift, game to game impact. Year Two in Toronto was not impressive.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Before Tavares became a Leaf, I always thought he was a little overrated and kind of a Hockey Canada darling compared to some of his early career comparables like Toews (remember thoes JT vs JT debates) and Steven Stamkos (OHL product and first overall one year apart). He seems like a highly respected person and player, but just feels like his reputation is a little bit inflated based on his shift to shift, game to game impact. Year Two in Toronto was not impressive.

When you look at Tavares from a stats point of view yes his second season in Toronto wasn't as good compared to his first season.

However in the 2018-19 season when he had 47 goals, 41 assists, and 88 points that was in 82 games played.

In the 2019-20 season he was unlucky since he suffered that broken finger and missed 7 games.

So let's see what his third season in Toronto will look like.