Pro Tank Thread "You said that we'd be better now, better now. But you always let us down."

[Jack Burton]

Man I hope Aquaman stops meddling, comes to his senses and fires Benning with the entire front office.

Right your wrongs and hire some competent people with this draft coming up and back the f*ck up letting them do their jobs.

This team is garbage and needs to be rebuilt.

I'd only keep Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson and deep 6 the rest of the roster for prospects and draft picks.

 

[Icebreakers]

Tanking doesn't feel as bad since we haven't got the first overall pick. It's like our duty hasn't been accomplished

 

[valkynax]

Man I hope Aquaman stops meddling, comes to his senses and fires Benning with the entire front office.

Right your wrongs and hire some competent people with this draft coming up and back the f*ck up letting them do their jobs.

This team is garbage and needs to be rebuilt.

I'd only keep Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson and deep 6 the rest of the roster for prospects and draft picks.

Most of the rest of our roster are so awful most teams won't want them even if we paid them.

Thanks Jim, you did us a solid.

 

[timw33]

Still extremely frustrated at what this team could have been by now had we just taken the no brainer picks in 14' + 16', committed to the tank in 2015-16, traded Hamhuis/Vrbata/Miller at the deadline (horrifyingly close to getting Matthews), not trade McCann/Forsling/33rd ov (Debrincat), not trade for Vey, get futures focused return from Kesler, get have 3 9/10 pick drafts, not signed Eriksson.

But here we are with Jim Benning accidentally tying his two shoes together and falling over and over without being able to understand why.

 

[Cancuks]

And anyone expecting anything different at this year's deadline will be let down once again.
Edler: Injured/and or he'll be re-signed
Tanev: Injured/Not going anywhere
Nilsson: No takers
Gagner: No takers
Del Zotto: No takers

 

[y2kcanucks]

Still extremely frustrated at what this team could have been by now had we just taken the no brainer picks in 14' + 16', committed to the tank in 2015-16, traded Hamhuis/Vrbata/Miller at the deadline (horrifyingly close to getting Matthews), not trade McCann/Forsling/33rd ov (Debrincat), not trade for Vey, get futures focused return from Kesler, get have 3 9/10 pick drafts, not signed Eriksson.

But here we are with Jim Benning accidentally tying his two shoes together and falling over and over without being able to understand why.

The Canucks would have been contenders by now if they had actually focused on a proper rebuild back in 2013 or 2014. Back then, when I was calling for a rebuild (in 2013) there were many people saying we just need a few tweaks. That's what Benning did, a few tweaks. Though the tweaks he made caused some people to question what he was doing. The team made the playoffs and some were content, while others saw warning signs. Benning made more tweaks, and more and more people jumped to the "wtf is he doing" side. That all blew up in his face in 2015-16 and we saw the first large exodus of people from the "yay go Canucks let's win for the Sedins" camp to "we need to rebuild and get rid of this idiot GM" camp. Since then, more and more people have jumped to the rebuild side. We still have people who are in way too deep and continue to support this GM. I'll never understand them.

But at the end of the day, you're right. Had we done a rebuild earlier, and really didn't need to do too much outside of NOT making stupid trades to try to be competitive sooner, and made the right draft picks that were obvious to most people, this team would be very good right now.

 

[y2kcanucks]

And anyone expecting anything different at this year's deadline will be let down once again.
Edler: Injured/and or he'll be re-signed
Tanev: Injured/Not going anywhere
Nilsson: No takers
Gagner: No takers
Del Zotto: No takers

If anything we'll get another Tyler Motte type player. I would be absolutely stunned if Benning acquired a top 3 round pick. It's not going to happen. It hasn't happened in 3.5 years. In fact, he hasn't acquired and kept a top 3 round pick (that wasn't originally his own) since the Kesler trade almost half a decade ago.

 

[Hyzer]

Everyone felt so godo with all those wins.

I was happy with the wins, just because its fun. But never once did I think the Canucks were a good team. They are an awful, awful team and will continue to lose. Regardless of injuries, we suck.

We are just falling back to the mean now.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Everyone felt so godo with all those wins.

I was happy with the wins, just because its fun. But never once did I think the Canucks were a good team. They are an awful, awful team and will continue to lose. Regardless of injuries, we suck.

We are just falling back to the mean now.

I have more fun seeing the Canucks lose 5-0 like last night.

 

[megatron]

I have more fun seeing the Canucks lose 5-0 like last night.

In a similar vein I get alot of entertainment watching gudbranson play. This guy is so bad its entertaining seeing all his mishaps. Whenever he's on the screen I just self "iso-cam" him. His icings/per60 has to be league leading by a country mile.

 

[HankNDank]

This thread is getting ridiculous. Look at the last 10 or 20 Stanley Cup winners. Tell me how many of those teams were led by players they took in the top 5 of the draft. Look at the top 20, 30 or 40 scorers in the NHL in literally every year. Tell me how many of those players were top 5 draft picks.

This isn't hard stuff here.

And how many of those teams, in the last 2o years, have been in a lottery where if they finish 11th they got a top 2 pick?

I know the counter argument; but maaaaath. But the point remains that you dont need to be bad to get a top 3 pick, you need to get lucky now. Last year, if we would have got 5 MORE wins, we would have drafted 2nd overall. If we got 5 FEWER wins, we would have drafted 4th. And knowing GMJB's desire for a defenceman, I bet we would have drafted Hughes at 4th anyhow.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

And how many of those teams, in the last 2o years, have been in a lottery where if they finish 11th they got a top 2 pick?

I know the counter argument; but maaaaath. But the point remains that you dont need to be bad to get a top 3 pick, you need to get lucky now. Last year, if we would have got 5 MORE wins, we would have drafted 2nd overall. If we got 5 FEWER wins, we would have drafted 4th. And knowing GMJB's desire for a defenceman, I bet we would have drafted Hughes at 4th anyhow.

See bolded. Statistics are a thing. The NHL literally gives you the odds for getting the picks, and the worst teams still have the best chances. Quite something that you can say but maaaaaaath then cite an outlier.

 

[Melvin]

And how many of those teams, in the last 2o years, have been in a lottery where if they finish 11th they got a top 2 pick?

I know the counter argument; but maaaaath. But the point remains that you dont need to be bad to get a top 3 pick, you need to get lucky now. Last year, if we would have got 5 MORE wins, we would have drafted 2nd overall. If we got 5 FEWER wins, we would have drafted 4th. And knowing GMJB's desire for a defenceman, I bet we would have drafted Hughes at 4th anyhow.

When someone dismisses math..

 

[HankNDank]

See bolded. Statistics are a thing. The NHL literally gives you the odds for getting the picks, and the worst teams still have the best chances. Quite something that you can say but maaaaaaath then cite an outlier.

See bolded. You say so yourself its not the only way. And is it an outlier? Last year 11th got 2nd. The year before, 13th got 2nd. The year before 6th got 2nd. And all three years, 2nd and 3rd have dropped at least 2 spots. My point is, with the revised lottery system, you can both cheer for your team to win games, and still end up with a top pick. Or you can wine and moan all season anytime you win, end up 2nd worst, and still draft 5th overall, then wine and moan about the lottery system screwing us over. Anything excuse to wine and moan I suppose.

 

[Melvin]

Jesus Christ

 

[valkynax]

See bolded. You say so yourself its not the only way. And is it an outlier? Last year 11th got 2nd. The year before, 13th got 2nd. The year before 6th got 2nd. And all three years, 2nd and 3rd have dropped at least 2 spots. My point is, with the revised lottery system, you can both cheer for your team to win games, and still end up with a top pick. Or you can wine and moan all season anytime you win, end up 2nd worst, and still draft 5th overall, then wine and moan about the lottery system screwing us over. Anything excuse to wine and moan I suppose.

As I stated earlier, this is more than just about picks, it's about getting rid of the Leader with a bloodless coups.

Also, it still makes a major difference on where the team ranks in draft order, if you're the worst team then you won't drop lower than 4th overall, which, if drafted properly, can still turn up with top talent players.

Like playing hockey itself, chance of getting a shot becoming a goal is...10%? Maybe lower? That doesn't mean players should just say it's all luck and just stop trying.

 

[y2kcanucks]

In a similar vein I get alot of entertainment watching gudbranson play. This guy is so bad its entertaining seeing all his mishaps. Whenever he's on the screen I just self "iso-cam" him. His icings/per60 has to be league leading by a country mile.

It really is hilarious when you hear Benning talking about him like he's tough to play against, and then watching the games seeing other teams targeting Gudbranson on the ice shooting the puck in on his side. It just goes to show the shocking disconnect Canucks management has with reality.

 

[HankNDank]

As I stated earlier, this is more than just about picks, it's about getting rid of the Leader with a bloodless coups.

Also, it still makes a major difference on where the team ranks in draft order, if you're the worst team then you won't drop lower than 4th overall, which, if drafted properly, can still turn up with top talent players.

Like playing hockey itself, chance of getting a shot becoming a goal is...10%? Maybe lower? That doesn't mean players should just say it's all luck and just stop trying.

I am aware of the odds of drafting better the lower in the standings. I would just rather watch the games, cheer for the wins and the kids to score/develop. Then, in the all magical lottery, end up first no matter where we pick. Not trying to convince you to do the same, but it's a possibility. Plus, I challenge you to go back though any draft in pro sports history and find me one where the top 10 picks of that draft ending up being the top 10 players of that age range, and drafted in the correct order to boot. The lottery is a crap shoot. The draft is a crap shoot. Go Canucks GO!

 

[Josepho]

See bolded. You say so yourself its not the only way. And is it an outlier? Last year 11th got 2nd. The year before, 13th got 2nd. The year before 6th got 2nd. And all three years, 2nd and 3rd have dropped at least 2 spots. My point is, with the revised lottery system, you can both cheer for your team to win games, and still end up with a top pick. Or you can wine and moan all season anytime you win, end up 2nd worst, and still draft 5th overall, then wine and moan about the lottery system screwing us over. Anything excuse to wine and moan I suppose.

It is an outlier because even though the Flyers got the 2nd pick in 2017, every other team slated 10-15 did not win a lottery pick and picked lower than the bottom feeder teams.

This isn't, or at least shouldn't be, difficult to understand.

 

[y2kcanucks]

See bolded. You say so yourself its not the only way. And is it an outlier? Last year 11th got 2nd. The year before, 13th got 2nd. The year before 6th got 2nd. And all three years, 2nd and 3rd have dropped at least 2 spots. My point is, with the revised lottery system, you can both cheer for your team to win games, and still end up with a top pick. Or you can wine and moan all season anytime you win, end up 2nd worst, and still draft 5th overall, then wine and moan about the lottery system screwing us over. Anything excuse to wine and moan I suppose.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Other than to point out how 7-8 years ago a lot of the discussion was about analytics and new ways to track player performance, and now we've devolved to the point where people don't understand basic math. I fear for what the future brings if this is the way things are trending.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I am aware of the odds of drafting better the lower in the standings. I would just rather watch the games, cheer for the wins and the kids to score/develop. Then, in the all magical lottery, end up first no matter where we pick. Not trying to convince you to do the same, but it's a possibility. Plus, I challenge you to go back though any draft in pro sports history and find me one where the top 10 picks of that draft ending up being the top 10 players of that age range, and drafted in the correct order to boot. The lottery is a crap shoot. The draft is a crap shoot. Go Canucks GO!

In addition to basic elementary school math, I think you're also failing to understand the top priority of Team Tank, which is to usher in new management.

 

[HankNDank]

It is an outlier because even though the Flyers got the 2nd pick in 2017, every other team slated 10-15 did not win a lottery pick and picked lower than the bottom feeder teams.

This isn't, or at least shouldn't be, difficult to understand.

Well, yeah, the fact that 13th specifically got it is an outlier. But teams that finish outside of the top 5 collectively have a 38.5% chance of drafting first. Which, to prove that I know how to do math, is 18.5% higher than finishing last. To know which one of the team 6-15 win is impossible to say, but odds are one of them will get a lottery win, and I would rather enjoy myself when the Canucks win AND win the lottery. Does that make me a bad person? Or just stupid?

 

[Josepho]

Well, yeah, the fact that 13th specifically got it is an outlier. But teams that finish outside of the top 5 collectively have a 38.5% chance of drafting first. Which, to prove that I know how to do math, is 18.5% higher than finishing last. To know which one of the team 6-15 win is impossible to say, but odds are one of them will get a lottery win, and I would rather enjoy myself when the Canucks win AND win the lottery. Does that make me a bad person? Or just stupid?

1 of the 6-15 teams. 1 of them, which implies that the other 9 won't. Meanwhile using this formula, 2 of the 1-5 teams WILL win, which means that only 3 won't. Not to mention if you suck, you still have a good seeding in the likelihood of being bumped down and in later rounds as well.

I know which gamble I'd prefer to take.

 

[valkynax]

I am aware of the odds of drafting better the lower in the standings. I would just rather watch the games, cheer for the wins and the kids to score/develop. Then, in the all magical lottery, end up first no matter where we pick. Not trying to convince you to do the same, but it's a possibility. Plus, I challenge you to go back though any draft in pro sports history and find me one where the top 10 picks of that draft ending up being the top 10 players of that age range, and drafted in the correct order to boot. The lottery is a crap shoot. The draft is a crap shoot. Go Canucks GO!

No, it is not. Like poker, a lot of it is luck, but there are also many things a team can do to maximize its chances. Have talent scouts, hoard up as many picks as possible, tank for worst records...etc.

If you want to watch and cheer for wins, go for it. But coming to the pro-tank thread and talk down on everyone just because you have an opinion is very ill-advised.

 

[HankNDank]

Well the good news is that me cheering for them to win doesn't actually mean they get more wins. Actually, for that matter, nor does you cheering for them to lose actually get them more losses. huh...