Post-Game Talk: Preseason Game 1 = loss

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Yeah they didn't match the Maurice template. He was too invested in Lowry at 3C.

This org would be better for it if they paid Copp to be a teo-way 3C and had Adam at 4C.
And to that end, it does sound like Lowry is still our 3C and Gus our 4C. One of the talking heads (can’t recall which) made it seem like it was Gus’ job to lose the 4C spot between periods. Correct me if I’m wrong here, it was on the TV but in the background.
 

surixon

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And to that end, it does sound like Lowry is still our 3C and Gus our 4C. One of the talking heads (can’t recall which) made it seem like it was Gus’ job to lose the 4C spot between periods. Correct me if I’m wrong here, it was on the TV but in the background.

Well we don't exactly have another center option this year as opposed to past years cough Copp cough Stastny.

But given Gus is waiver eligible I would expect he will be given every opportunity to win that spot.

Funny enough Roslovic was involved in the Laine trade that would have made room for him in the top six.

Maurice did like having Lowry as 3C but we also never really had the offensive depth to even create a third scoring line after 18-19 season.

I know a lot of people here wanted/hoped that some of our younger guys coming up would have been good enough to create that third scoring line but let’s be honest none of them really were.

Maurice loves Lowry at 3C but we never really had those 2-3 better offensive forwards to actually create a good third scoring line, not without leaving a huge hole in the top six.

In 17-18 and 18-19 when we still had depth and acquired a third good centre Maurice had no problem putting more offensive players on the fourth line and balancing their minutes with the Lowry line.

I don't know that I agree. Him and Copp could have formed 2/3 of a good modern third line.

Going into 20/22 with Stastny being brought back in they could have run something like the below:

Conner Scheifele Wheeler
Ehlers Stastny Laine
Xxxx Copp Roslovic
Yyyyy Lowry Appelton
 
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Atoyot

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I'm always surprised by how much people comment on announcers. I feel like I pretty much tune them out when I'm watching.

Gawanke was good until the 3rd period, then he tried to lean on an opponent and fell down 3 separate times. On two it looked like he may have been trying to draw a penalty. Hopefully he stops that.

Should probably move from rhyme to alliteration for Big Rebound Rittich. Honestly though I'm not going to read too much into one preseason game.
 
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Imcanadianeh

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I don't know that I agree. Him and Copp could have formed 2/3 of a good modern third line.

Going into 20/22 with Stastny being brought back in they could have run something like the below:

Conner Scheifele Wheeler
Ehlers Stastny Laine
Xxxx Copp Roslovic
Yyyyy Lowry Appelton
Roslovic wasn’t signing a new contract and requested a trade, we would have needed two players for the third line.
 

Mud Turtle

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Jul 26, 2013
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Roslovic fell victim to coaching philosophy and not being good enough for our top 6 more so then anything else.

A more forward thinking coach and he's likely a big part of an offensive third line here.
I want to like this post more than once. We had the potential for third scoring line and we squandered it. Well maybe WE didn’t squander it but Maurice certainly did.
 

GaryPoppins

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Roslovic wasn’t signing a new contract and requested a trade, we would have needed two players for the third line.
Does anyone know why he requested a trade? The reason for this was never really talked about…
 

garret9

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saving face, trying to find the next chara.....they're banking on some otherworldly potential. Both Murat and Garrett have alluded to this. Murat a bit more explicitly. he was 1/3 dmen protected for the expansion draft just last year so i doubt they will waive him and give him away for nothing.

also i think he would still have some value as a trade piece esp w/ many teams against the cap. 6'7, low cost 3rd pair LD (although he has to be paired with a great partner as seen in the CDN Div year).

I'm trying to avoid Stanley conversations but seemingly failing both here and on Twitter lol



Some of this is pure guess work, some of it is known (sources) and some is educated guess work based on sources and me filling in blanks given what I know about how most teams/staff are like (although different sources have told me slightly different things*).

I believe that there are/were *some* that are/were *real* big fans of Stanley. That's not special as you get that for most young players/prospects. There are some that weren't big fans of him too. Again, that's not that special or unique on many non elite prospects.

Stanley's first year he stuck in the NHL; he had a decent camp, even made a believer of Murat (as he's noted in recent camp posts). There were many that were very excited for his potential (including here) due to that and other things. Some were feeling that Stanley was "proving the haters wrong" (airquotes not real quotes).

Unfortunately for those people, last year Stanley performed statistically really bad. It is of my own personal opinion that a lot of that was a mistake because Stanley was aggresively sheltered (one of the most sheltered players in the NHL, even for 3rd pairing defenders and/or rookies) and was with DeMelo (a guy that makes people look and perform better, even after trying to adjust for his quality of play with models).

Anyways, everyones opinion is dynamic and changing. Like I heard from one source that one of the draft Stanley guys is also a huge Heinola guy. So who knows who likes who more; the scouts do but I don't. War rooms are no different then here, lots of people with lots of different opinons, and some change as time moves on.

I still think in the right role/system/enviornment Stanley is a fine 6/7 and could get slightly better. He is getting closer to the point where he is predominately what we should always expect him to be though. Chara at 25 got All Star votes, and at 26 was 7th in Noris votes... and we know that fans/media (and sometimes GMs/coaches) are late on accepting how good young players are.

* Not neccessarily conflicting different things as different sources told me at different years/stages so things/opions can change and update.


Back more on topic to current camp and the logjam.

Honestly while I disagree with the Jets many times about Stanley, I mostly disagree about how their philosophy with using young players overall. They have in a large part created this mess.

For example: Stanley should have been played more, given less sheltered work, when the alternatives were players like Sbisa, Bealieu, etc. Yes, I was at one point saying Jets should have used Stanley more.

1) We knew that Bealieu et al were not good enough, so why not try the players that are young and only MAY not be good enough. Sure we now know Stanley isn't much better or worse than Beaulieu, but it took time and reps to find that out.

2) Finding out about Stanley earlier would mean that we could have seen the Jets getting more reps and chances for Samberg/Heinola, and therefore knowing earlier if adding both Schmidt and Dillon was excessive (and therefore saving draft capital and cap that could have both been used elsewhere).
 

surixon

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I'm trying to avoid Stanley conversations but seemingly failing both here and on Twitter lol



Some of this is pure guess work, some of it is known (sources) and some is educated guess work based on sources and me filling in blanks given what I know about how most teams/staff are like (although different sources have told me slightly different things*).

I believe that there are/were *some* that are/were *real* big fans of Stanley. That's not special as you get that for most young players/prospects. There are some that weren't big fans of him too. Again, that's not that special or unique on many non elite prospects.

Stanley's first year he stuck in the NHL; he had a decent camp, even made a believer of Murat (as he's noted in recent camp posts). There were many that were very excited for his potential (including here) due to that and other things. Some were feeling that Stanley was "proving the haters wrong" (airquotes not real quotes).

Unfortunately for those people, last year Stanley performed statistically really bad. It is of my own personal opinion that a lot of that was a mistake because Stanley was aggresively sheltered (one of the most sheltered players in the NHL, even for 3rd pairing defenders and/or rookies) and was with DeMelo (a guy that makes people look and perform better, even after trying to adjust for his quality of play with models).

Anyways, everyones opinion is dynamic and changing. Like I heard from one source that one of the draft Stanley guys is also a huge Heinola guy. So who knows who likes who more; the scouts do but I don't. War rooms are no different then here, lots of people with lots of different opinons, and some change as time moves on.

I still think in the right role/system/enviornment Stanley is a fine 6/7 and could get slightly better. He is getting closer to the point where he is predominately what we should always expect him to be though. Chara at 25 got All Star votes, and at 26 was 7th in Noris votes... and we know that fans/media (and sometimes GMs/coaches) are late on accepting how good young players are.

* Not neccessarily conflicting different things as different sources told me at different years/stages so things/opions can change and update.


Back more on topic to current camp and the logjam.

Honestly while I disagree with the Jets many times about Stanley, I mostly disagree about how their philosophy with using young players overall. They have in a large part created this mess.

For example: Stanley should have been played more, given less sheltered work, when the alternatives were players like Sbisa, Bealieu, etc. Yes, I was at one point saying Jets should have used Stanley more.

1) We knew that Bealieu et al were not good enough, so why not try the players that are young and only MAY not be good enough. Sure we now know Stanley isn't much better or worse than Beaulieu, but it took time and reps to find that out.

2) Finding out about Stanley earlier would mean that we could have seen the Jets getting more reps and chances for Samberg/Heinola, and therefore knowing earlier if adding both Schmidt and Dillon was excessive (and therefore saving draft capital and cap that could have both been used elsewhere).

Yeah the Jets the prior two to three years moves away from integrating their youth and into trying to patch holes with vets to try to win. I know Buff leaving created a hole but I still maintain this org should have continued operating like they were prior to 2019 where the goal was to integrating young talent and watch it grow.

Now as you mentioned we are stuck with a plethora of young dmen that are knocking at the door and many are st or quickly approaching waiver eligibility. How can the org hope to get a good enough look at players like Kovacevik, Gawanke, Chisholm and even possibly Samberg and Heinola before being forced to make a call on moving some or losing some for nothing?
 
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surixon

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Roslovic wasn’t signing a new contract and requested a trade, we would have needed two players for the third line.

Would he have refused to sign had the org informed him that his usage would have been different? All these things have a snowball effect, if he knew he was going to play in offensive situations he may have elected to stay. He wasn't going to stay where he was blocked from those opportunities.
 
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Imcanadianeh

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Would he have refused to sign had the org informed him that his usage would have been different? All these things have a snowball effect, if he knew he was going to play in offensive situations he may have elected to stay. He wasn't going to stay where he was blocked from those opportunities.
Roslovic played the majority of the season in the top six his last year with the Jets and was given PP time.
 

garret9

AKA#VitoCorrelationi
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Roslovic played the majority of the season in the top six his last year with the Jets and was given PP time.
Not exactly, but somewhat true.

Screen Shot 2022-09-26 at 9.44.25 PM.png


In Roslovic's last season as a Jet he did get a good chunk of the season with top6 calibre linemates (with Wheeler and Ehlers), but after people got healthy half way through the season he fell back down. There he started playing with Lowry and Perreault, but quickly to a rotating cast of Copp, Appleton, and Harkins.

rosloja97.png


Roslovic that season was most often the 8th most used forward, then followed by 7th, then 6th, then 9th, then a big jump in far less often of 5th, then 4th, then 10th. But, again, he did play a lot with guys who were at the time playing 2nd line.

Screen Shot 2022-09-26 at 9.46.16 PM.png


His rolling average icetime was typical of a 3rd line forward for almost his entire career as a Jet, albeit with a few dips as a 4th early on, and was much higher later. He was used as a top 6 initially in Columbus, fell out of favour to a 3rd liner similar to in WPG, but then back up after.

Sources: Hockeyviz
 

GumbyCan2

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Kovacevic is #65. My take on a slightly lost, easily overtaken by the Oilers was Leon Gawanke #72! Especially 3rd period. Sadly he might have played himself out of favour and being 3rd season as a pro now, he is not waiver exempt to be be sent back the A, the Moose.
If this is where his ability has him at NHL level, let another teampick him up! Sorry Leon, not a good showing IMO. Stanley was very out of it 1st period for sure. Some good shifts here and there, but not a good showing overall. Hope Samberg and Heinola do better than most on the ice last night!
 

Imcanadianeh

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Nov 1, 2015
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Chevy did give a 2nd round pick away too to move up only 5 spots to pick 'Logan Stanley'. Leaning toward partly bust bynow, I feel.

Is that '#72' you are referring to? I didn't notice a #71 on Jets side. #72 lost his feet, skates and sensibility by the 3rd period.
He also received a 3rd round pick in that trade.
 

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