Albus Dumbledore
Master of Death
- Mar 28, 2015
- 9,023
- 2,674
Proposal: Preds and Leafs
- Thread starter hurdemz
- Start date
Gurglesons
Registered User
Not disputing that. My point still largely stands. Players in his position don't get huge returns.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Except absolutely not; Fabbro's been a steady reliable guy when his coaches have let him play. Heck, he's been a regular alongside Josi.
Tomasino doesn't find it impossible to stay healthy the same way Robertson does.
And you overlooked the Josi/Marner comparison, which is an egregious insult to Josi on the level of "Filip Forsberg and Auston Matthews are basically equivalent".
thusk
Registered User
since he's in the NHL marner had been 10th in total of pts...since 2018 he 's 8th in pts per gm and he's a selke candidate
Forsberg is not even in top 30. The only superstars nashville having to compare to marner is Josi, they don't have anybody else than Josi. so yes the only player to compare marner with nashville is Josi
thusk
Registered User
Its the same thing nashville start a rebuild and go see around NHL what they can have for Josi. The reason why they want to move the player change absolutly nothing to his value.
anyway for me the reason to trade Marner will be to upgrade the D and/or and goaltending. not to get pick and prospect
Hasn’t Karlsson made it further in the playoffs?
Last edited:
thusk
Registered User
leafs fail in playoff is not about one player
since 2016 amount all leafs played with leafs, nobody had more points by gamethan marner? no one...
so no its not because of marner
leafs was losing but they need a change and the only way to get that change is by moving someone of the core
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
By this logic, Josi is also equally comparable to Matthews. Are Matthews and Marner the same player?
thusk
Registered User
McVespa99
Registered User
- May 13, 2007
- 5,998
- 2,763
The not comparable part is that Josi is far more valuable than Marner. Based on position, play, cap hit, and term
Scoresberg
Perpetual Mediocrity
Evangelista's developing pretty well and should see some permanent top-six time next year. L'Heureux is damn-near untouchable with the way he's going right now.
Kemell is the one we could let go of. But in a deal involving Marner it would be something along the lines of:
Saros + Tomasino/Kemell + pick
Kemell is the one we could let go of. But in a deal involving Marner it would be something along the lines of:
Saros + Tomasino/Kemell + pick
thusk
Registered User
he was underpaid first 4 year for sure but he will be soon at 34 soon... 9M for a 34-37 Y/O d coming with a high risk of decline... Just like that
so yes a top 10 pts scorer game changer winger at 27 at his prime can have a similar value than an elite dman who had his best year behind him and will start to be on his decline..
Is Nashville needing to unload Josi for cap reasons?
We were told 2 years ago his best years were behind him, yet this year was likely is best on both ends of ice.
ElPrimeTime
Registered User
What game did he change? I think Marner is a fantastic player, but you are massively over valuing him and the situation. There is no GM that is taking Marner over Josi.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
- 7,496
- 831
Josi has been my favorite defender since his second year when I made the statment he was better than Weber. And I always prefer veterans to young kids. But Marner has value too. Will his value surpass Josi when in his prime maybe maybe not. But what each bring to a team is pretty special. Marner has a history of being shit on by Leaf fans while playing in the shadow of two other special forwards. He could be a franchise player in many cities. Until he is out of Toronto we will not know how good he will be. He is no doubt too 10 in the league in production if he leaves the Leafs. Time will tell but that said he still does not fit in the timeframe Trotz is working on.
ElPrimeTime
Registered User
I'm not discounting Marner at all. As a non-Leaf fan, up until this last year, I would have confidently said that is the best forward for the Leafs, from an all-around perspective. I'm not sure he would be top 10 in production once he leaves Toronto as I doubt he will be in a situation where he has a shooter like Matthews, but I can't see him being terrible either.
But considering that he has a full NMC, 1 year left on his contract and is a winger, there is no way he has more value that an all situation top 5 d-man like Josi. I can't think of any team in the NHL that would take Marner over Josi. A top line winger is easier to find than a top 5 d-man.
thusk
Registered User
kind of d like Josi historically start to decline around 34 to 36... Pronger, keith, Weber... Doesn't mean he will not still a good D
hamzarocks
Registered User
It is a pretty similar offer
Robertson and Tomasino are the same value. Both small 40 pt wingers who cant crack there teams full time. Same draft class/1 year apart
Lilijgren and fabbro are the same value/very similar value. Mid 1sts who again were 1 year apart and both cant take next steo to be top 4D. Fabbro goes in preds dog house like lilijgren did for leafs
Leafs 1st is 22 I think vs Preds 1st being 18/19. So the difference in decimals comes from here.
You can say Josi has more value then Marner, (older age but signed long term) so maybe a bit more add, but if you think that preds offer is fair or enough value for marner, than the leafs offer us enough value for Forsberg, which I doubt you would accept.
It was a trash offer for marner despite his value being at all time low.
No Saros or Askarov is just a waste of time in preds-leafs offer
if the pick is a 1st then deal
Otherwise not enough
I'd go a step further here...
It's not just about getting a legitimate #2 centre, or a #2 right shot defenceman with size, or a #1 goalie, but rather, one that has a reasonable prospect of being a medium-term soliution with a reasonable contract.
This is a "retooling" year for the Leafs -- they cannot place much value on what somebody will do for them in 2024-25. They need to look at what somebody is going to do for them in 25-26, 26-27, etc.
Juuse Saros is going to get paid big time, when the trend is towards goalies that make $4-5m. He's just a guy that the Leafs should be all that interested in. Jacob Markstrom with some retention, sure....beyond that, they've gotta figure out how to develop a goalie.
You cannot trade Marner, a top 10 winger in the game right now, who's 26 years old, and not satisfy at least 1 long term.
You look at the Predators roster, and the challenge is -- there's just not a lot of players that actually fit what the Leafs need. Ryan O'Reilly is 33 years old. Colton Sissons is a true 3rd liner.
Tommy Novak might be an interesting target, but he's REALLY pushing it as "ideal #2 centre" kind of thing. Schenn is 34 years old. Fabbro doesn't fit stylistically.
Personally, I don't think there should be all that much "pushing" for Kemell or L’Heureux. The Leafs already have 2 guys that they're likely to find in the lineup in Cowan and Minten.
Novak is far from an ideal #2 C on a contender, but I think you can make the argument that if you can get away with spending $3.5m on a #2C, add a guy like Evangelista who you can bridge deal, then it leaves you so much more money to not have to be as efficient when shopping for the other needs like defencemen.
TLDR? My proposal would be:
Marner & Robertson
Novak, Evangelista, a 2025 First Round Pick, and a 2025 3rd Round Pick.
Bad trade, Marner will be Torontos for the whole his life. First as a player, then as an assistant coach and then as a head coach.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Tomasino's issue is one of a depth numbers game; Robertson's is health. I would be far more concerned about Robertson than Tomasino.
Not at all. Fabbro's been Josi's most effective partner.
Defensemen have a longer useful life than forwards; this is a known phenomenon. And unlike Marner, he's on a sweetheart deal. And he's a better overall player. And is a Norris Trophy winner. The comparison with Marner is not a fair one.
Are you talking about the OP, or the "Tomasino/Fabbro/1st" one? They're both dubious for Toronto, to be sure, and don't actually meet Leafs needs - Saros would undoubtedly have to be the core of any Marner offer. I'm not sure I'd call them trash per se, but they don't necessarily improve the Leafs in any helpful measure so I can understand folks not caring for 'em. It's the writing off of Preds assets that's exasperating - they don't abruptly suck just 'cause they're not what y'all would need.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
This doesn't fit with the Preds either. The problem is that y'all keep targeting youth, and that's the opposite of what is needed in Nashville. The basic roster goal isn't some sort of quixotic singleminded pursuit of playoff appearances; it's keeping the team competitive so that the kids coming through get and buy into the system. This is why most of the discussions end up around Saros.
To be fair, that proposal has:
- A 27-year old top 10 winger swapped for a 27-year old lower-end #2 centre.
- A 22-year old winger who's struggled to find an opportunity in a top-heavy lineup, for a 22 year old Winger that has solidified himself a little more, and is probably more versatile.
- 2 Future Picks
I agree with you, Nashville does need to get out of the mindset of "get to the playoffs", and needs to start building towards win a cup.
You look at the prospects coming through the system -- and there's reason to be excited, but they don't neccessarily scream "future franchise player" other than Askarov, and we all know how fickle goalies can be. They need an injection of some starpower, and that deal allows them to do it without touching thier prospect pool.
If Saros had 2 or 3 years remaining on his deal, then maybe he could be the focal point of a deal.... but he doesn't. He's got one year left -- that year where the Leafs have to retool -- and will likely require a winning-prohibitive contract after that.
He'd be of much more value to a team like New Jersey, who's been desparate for reliable goaltending to get them to the playoffs -- and can afford to place a decent value on a 1-year solution.
