Post-Game Talk: [Pre-Season] GM03 | Kraken def. Canucks | 3-1 (Myers)

[Wry n Ginger]

It's not 'rage'.

It's expecting an $11 million player to compete and be noticeable *especially* after his embarrassing end to last season, instead of being invisible and probably less noticeable than AHLers like Arshdeep Bains.

If you go around the league and look at the players around the league earning $11 million, they don't have preseason games like this and they most certainly don't have 40-game stretches as pathetic as what Pettersson tossed out there to end last year.

Again : it's obviously not make-or-break or time to panic. But it's legitimately concerning to see him pick up essentially right where he left off last season.

That explains it much better, thank you.

I 100% percent agree that he needs to show that the contract and commitment that the Canucks gave him need immediate results.

The preseason is never a bellweather of what the regular season entails. I am going to give EP40 20 games to show what kind of player he is and how hard he is going to battle to be the player that makes 11m. Also keeping in mind that his no-trade clause only kicks in at this season's deadline.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Pettersson has never been a player that wows you shift to shift. To expect him to just go up and down the ice coast to coast has never been his game so as far as the eye test he will always seemingly look non chalant and unengaged.

There are many examples of players who like Pettersson don’t exactly look like they’re doing “much” because they don’t make those fancy moves or wow you with excitement. In fact if you watch Barkov he quite literally looks like he’s doing nothing 90% of the game when that’s obviously not true. Rantanen, Stamkos, Tavares, Toews, Thornton are all guys who when you watch don’t stand out at all but you check the score sheet and they’re always on it. Even Pettersson has 2 points through these two meaningless games.

People are taking his last 30 games of the previous season and are making it seem like he’s regressed into a completely different type of player when in reality he’s looked the same as he’s always been the last 3-4 years. It’s just when he’s turning pucks over, passing when he should shoot, or making bad puck decisions it looks glaringly worse on top of his already non chalant type of style.

 

[valkynax]

To some degrees, I understand the push on Pete. Injury or not, at the end of the day, he is an 11 mil player, he signed the dotted line, and it is entirely reasonable to expect him to perform as such, period.

I'm sure everyone will be watching him when the chips are down and pressure is up. Such is the way of a star player who just signed a major contract. And that's not just a Vancouver or Canadian thing either - if you are paid to do a job, you better goddamn do the job.

Right now I'm not worried. The ice and puck will speak louder than anyone and anything.

 

[Wry n Ginger]

Maybe EP should not have played a game yet either if he's still injured. He can go sit in the hyperbaric chamber until he's ready.

What?

Nobody suggested Pettersson was still injured. The comment was suggesting that pre-season effort for veterans shouldn't be mistaken for regular season capabilities. Sorry to confuse you.

Can you try again using umm...more logic or something?

 

[MS]

That explains it much better, thank you.

I 100% percent agree that he needs to show that the contract and commitment that the Canucks gave him need immediate results.

The preseason is never a bellweather of what the regular season entails. I am going to give EP40 20 games to show what kind of player he is and how hard he is going to battle to be the player that makes 11m. Also keeping in mind that his no-trade clause only kicks in at this season's deadline.

That's totally fair. As a kid listening to Dan Russell's radio show he always had a rule that you didn't make proclamations about where a team was at and what needed to be changed until you hit game 20 and I always thought that was an intelligent/pragmatic way to look at things and I usually stick to that barring exceptional circumstances (Marco Sturm being utter shit was obvious after like 3 games, Jim Benning seasons were generally over before they started).

And as I keep saying, this is obviously not a panic point and it won't be until/unless it's November and he has 11 points through those first 20 games or something. But this player is a weird f***ing dude who has had a weird f***ing career and he's burned most of the benefit of the doubt he can get from me, and I think it's silly if you aren't registering some level of concern when you see performances like this to start a new season after the way the last season ended.

 

[arttk]

He looks to me like a player who when everything isn't perfect for him just totally checks out on his team. It's happened twice now for very large sample sizes covering like 40% of his career. Poor effort, poor compete, poor body language.

When you get paid $11.6 million *this is not an option*. I don't care if you're taking an ambulance to the rink, you'd better show up at the rink every night with your tail up willing to work.

And as I'll keep repeating : of course it's preseason. Of course we're not at a panic point. But when last season ended as shockingly embarrassingly disastrous as it did for him, you'd certainly hope to see some jump in his step to make you feel a little better that all that is behind him. Instead these two games have looked basically like more of the same. And if you aren't concerned, your head is in the sand. Come on.

“ He looks to me like a player who when everything isn't perfect for him“ That’s a really weird way to say when his body is injured, he can’t do what he wants.
Yeah when you are injured, you don’t look the same as when you are not, that’s what injuries do. You don’t consciously decide not to be injured. Here is a more reasonable way to say it. He can’t give his best when he is injured or he doesn’t know how to be productive when he is physically limited by certain injuries.

Looking for effort in a preseason game is so f***ing pointless. Look for things that actually let you know if he’s recovered
He got a couple shots off last game and to me, those shots were closer to pre-injury Petey shots so that’s promising. He had trouble or handling the puck post injury and so far in preseason he hasn’t really dangle at all so no idea where he is with that. He’s engaged in a couple of hits on the boards and doesn’t look labored. I think overall nobody on his line is making too much effort forechecking and winning those 50/50 battles so the line is not getting really any zone time and he’s barely touching the puck so it’s really freaking hard to evaluate other elements to see if he is closer to pre injury state. If you want to be critical, focus on those details. Not some Don Cherry esque bullshit about effort during a f***ing preseason game.

 

[NailsHoglander]

What?

Nobody suggested Pettersson was still injured. The comment was suggesting that pre-season effort for veterans shouldn't be mistaken for regular season capabilities. Sorry to confuse you.

Can you try again using umm...more logic or something?

No need to get pissy. So if he's not still dealing with something physical, what's his excuse for moping around with little effort? Preseason is not worth his time?

 

[arttk]

Preseason is not worth his time?

If it means something we would’ve seen Miller in preseason already.

 

[MS]

“ He looks to me like a player who when everything isn't perfect for him“ That’s a really weird way to say when his body is injured, he can’t do what he wants.
Yeah when you are injured, you don’t look the same as when you are not, that’s what injuries do. You don’t consciously decide not to be injured. Here is a more reasonable way to say it. He can’t give his best when he is injured or he doesn’t know how to be productive when he is physically limited by certain injuries.

Looking for effort in a preseason game is so f***ing pointless. Look for things that actually let you know if he’s recovered
He got a couple shots off last game and to me, those shots were closer to pre-injury Petey shots so that’s promising. He had trouble or handling the puck post injury and so far in preseason he hasn’t really dangle at all so no idea where he is with that. He’s engaged in a couple of hits on the boards and doesn’t look labored. I think overall nobody on his line is making too much effort forechecking and winning those 50/50 battles so the line is not getting really any zone time and he’s barely touching the puck so it’s really freaking hard to evaluate other elements to see if he is closer to pre injury state. If you want to be critical, focus on those details. Not some Don Cherry esque bullshit about effort during a f***ing preseason game.

I've seen tons of players play injured for decades and I've never seen a player as Jekyll/Hyde with a minor niggle as Pettersson is. Mike Modano's year where he went bankrupt after his advisor stole all his money is about the only thing I can remember comparable to the way Pettersson has checked out. And he's done it twice.

Again, the excuses you're making for this player are ridiculous. This guy finished last season going 26 games without an ES goal while looking like his dog died. It was painful. He's making $11 million. Compete. Quinn Hughes doesn't have any problems competing in these games.

 

[Wry n Ginger]

That's totally fair. As a kid listening to Dan Russell's radio show he always had a rule that you didn't make proclamations about where a team was at and what needed to be changed until you hit game 20 and I always thought that was an intelligent/pragmatic way to look at things and I usually stick to that barring exceptional circumstances (Marco Sturm being utter shit was obvious after like 3 games, Jim Benning seasons were generally over before they started).

And as I keep saying, this is obviously not a panic point and it won't be until/unless it's November and he has 11 points through those first 20 games or something. But this player is a weird f***ing dude who has had a weird f***ing career and he's burned most of the benefit of the doubt he can get from me, and I think it's silly if you aren't registering some level of concern when you see performances like this to start a new season after the way the last season ended.

AHA! I am seeing more areas where we agree. My concern with his mindset is definitely noted.

To encapsulate by basic feelings:

EP40 needs to show a strong understanding of what he needs to do to drive his line. His complimentary line mates should know what roll each of them should perform. EP IS THE DRIVER He deaks, shifts at the blueline etc HIS linemates need to know what comes next.


I am not worried about any of that shit yet..all good...BUT him and his new 2nd "Debrusk" need to start to show REAL effort early on. Hopefully results as well but effort 1st and foremost

 

[NailsHoglander]

If it means something we would’ve seen Miller in preseason already.

Ok but one would expect Miller to show bursts of elite play, like Hughes showed.

 

[Wry n Ginger]

No need to get pissy. So if he's not still dealing with something physical, what's his excuse for moping around with little effort? Preseason is not worth his time?

Pissy? Oh please... moping around?

Prove moping without conjecture...lol. I'm not being a dick but if we are talking hockey then talk hockey. Not a lot of 2 minute moping penalties.

 

[arttk]

I've seen tons of players play injured for decades and I've never seen a player as Jekyll/Hyde with a minor niggle as Pettersson is. Mike Modano's year where he went bankrupt after his advisor stole all his money is about the only thing I can remember comparable to the way Pettersson has checked out. And he's done it twice.

Again, the excuses you're making for this player are ridiculous. This guy finished last season going 26 games without an ES goal while looking like his dog died. It was painful. He's making $11 million. Compete.

How do you define minor? Wrist tendon injury, knee tendon injury. How are these injuries minor? The former affects how you hold something , I am pretty sure that’s pretty f***ing important considering holding the stick and applying force to flex is a pretty big part of hockey. Never mind the fact he missed half a season with that injury and it took him like another half to fully recover. The latter affects, I don’t know, standing and generally applying downward force through the leg onto the surface. Seems like it would affect the ability to skate and also the ability to transfer force into the stick.
Seriously, how are those injuries minor? I never had tendinitis but I had a wrist injury and I couldn’t hold shit for like a year. It’s actually offensive to hear you say that’s just a minor thing. You have no f***ing clue how painful and helpless it is to f*** up a wrist.

Modano being broke ass would actually be pretty motivating. I am not sure how that has anything to do with Petey not performing when he has an injury that impacts his physically abilities.

Just saying compete makes no f***ing sense. Players at this level don’t become elite just by compete. The difference between McDavid/<insert elite player name> and like a plug is not f***ing compete, it’s physical gift. Elite players are better and can produce because they are physically superior. Guess what, certain injuries reduce that gap. It’s like when a player hits 35 and the performance drops off, it’s not because of compete, it’s because they are no longer physically better than the other players.
When a player has certain injuries than reduces their body’s ability to perform, that physical superiority goes away and no amount of compete can make up that difference, it’s silly to think that it can. If you are slower because you are injured then compete doesn’t make you faster. If your shot becomes a muffin or your aim is off because of an injury, compete doesn’t magically make up for that.

 

[NailsHoglander]

Pissy? Oh please... moping around?

Prove moping without conjecture...lol. I'm not being a dick but if we are talking hockey then talk hockey. Not a lot of 2 minute moping penalties.

For the record, I'd be more than happy if he flips the switch and makes me look irrational when the real season starts. It's just a bit concerning to see the lack of hunger after what he went through last season. Is that not fair to say?

 

[Wry n Ginger]

For the record, I'd be more than happy if he flips the switch and makes me look irrational when the real season starts. It's just a bit concerning to see the lack of hunger after what he went through last season. Is that not fair to say?

Totally fair to say. Me as an athlete was kill the next guy, make a huge play ect.

New training camps seem to be deligated to a ton more one on one battles

 

[MS]

How do you define minor? Wrist tendon injury, knee tendon injury. How are these injuries minor? The former affects how you hold something , I am pretty sure that’s pretty f***ing important considering holding the stick and applying force to flex is a pretty big part of hockey. Never mind the fact he missed half a season with that injury and it took him like another half to fully recover. The latter affects, I don’t know, standing and generally applying downward force through the leg onto the surface. Seems like it would affect the ability to skate and also the ability to transfer force into the stick.
Seriously, how are those injuries minor? I never had tendinitis but I had a wrist injury and I couldn’t hold shit for like a year. It’s actually offensive to hear you say that’s just a minor thing. You have no f***ing clue how painful and helpless it is to f*** up a wrist.

Modano being broke ass would actually be pretty motivating. I am not sure how that has anything to do with Petey not performing when he has an injury that impacts his physically abilities.

Just saying compete makes no f***ing sense. Players at this level don’t become elite just by compete. The difference between McDavid/<insert elite player name> and like a plug is not f***ing compete, it’s physical gift. Elite players are better and can produce because they are physically superior. Guess what, certain injuries reduce that gap. It’s like when a player hits 35 and the performance drops off, it’s not because of compete, it’s because they are no longer physically better than the other players.
When a player has certain injuries than reduces their body’s ability to perform, that physical superiority goes away and no amount of compete can make up that difference, it’s silly to think that it can. If you are slower because you are injured then compete doesn’t make you faster. If your shot becomes a muffin or your aim is off because of an injury, compete doesn’t magically make up for that.

It’s funny you mention McDavid because he was hurt in the preseason last year and played hurt all year and couldn’t shoot the puck and his goal goals dropped in half … but he still kept competing like a madman and recorded 100 assists instead. Crosby, Kucherov, Mackinnon … these guys have had all kinds of injuries more serious than Pettersson … and they still compete and dominate.

We’ve seen Hughes play hurt and still play great.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

And for the record, his compete wasn’t good last year even before the knee stuff even if his production was ok.

 

[MS]

For the record, I'd be more than happy if he flips the switch and makes me look irrational when the real season starts. It's just a bit concerning to see the lack of hunger after what he went through last season. Is that not fair to say?

To be clear, I’m not asking him to be running guys over or blocking shots in the preseason.

There was one play tonight that really irked me - the one time he had time and space and was coming down the right side boards on a 3-on-2 with speed, in I think the 2nd period. It’s the sort of situation where if you’re engaged and you’re a skill player it doesn’t matter if it’s a beer league game or a scrimmage in sweat pants - your eyes light up and you try to show your talent and make a play. Instead Pettersson just passively threw on the brakes crossing the blueline, made a nothing safe limp dick pass to a trailing teammate and the whole play died. And it just looked like the same sort of sad panda mentality we saw in the last 40 games of last year. And it was concerning to me.

 

[arttk]

It’s funny you mention McDavid because he was hurt in the preseason last year and played hurt all year and couldn’t shoot the puck and his goal goals dropped in half … but he still kept competing like a madman and recorded 100 assists instead. Crosby, Kucherov, Mackinnon … these guys have had all kinds of injuries more serious than Pettersson … and they still compete and dominate.

We’ve seen Hughes play hurt and still play great.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

And for the record, his compete wasn’t good last year even before the knee stuff even if his production was ok.

Yeah because he has guys who can finish. We’ve seen Mik miss on breakaways, open nets enough times to know that his low scoring is not due to Petey’s play making. If anything, Mik is a big reason why Petey’s assist total went down as well unless you want to go down the path of arguing that Mik couldn’t finish because of Petey.

what do you mean his production was “ok”, he was on a 140point pace before injury. Hughes was also not great after he was injured, he did not control play the way he could post injury.

I don’t get what is going on here. It seems like you want to believe that he has consciously decide to suck. You don’t want to hear any arguments that him sucking is not a conscious act.

 

[quat]

Who's getting a Forbort jersey? Who's with me?!

 

[NailsHoglander]

To be clear, I’m not asking him to be running guys over or blocking shots in the preseason.

There was one play tonight that really irked me - the one time he had time and space and was coming down the right side boards on a 3-on-2 with speed, in I think the 2nd period. It’s the sort of situation where if you’re engaged and you’re a skill player it doesn’t matter if it’s a beer league game or a scrimmage in sweat pants - your eyes light up and you try to show your talent and make a play. Instead Pettersson just passively threw on the brakes crossing the blueline, made a nothing safe limp dick pass to a trailing teammate and the whole play died. And it just looked like the same sort of sad panda mentality we saw in the last 40 games of last year. And it was concerning to me.

I didn't even watch the game tonight but I trust your opinion enough that it disappoints me to read your report on his performance. I was first hand upset with his previous game. He didn't exactly make it easy for Lekk to showcase his skill. You'd think a team leader would try to put in a better effort for a blue chip prospect making his debut. Maybe Lekk needed to do more himself but EP didn't help him much..

 

[David71]

Sherwood is awesome. That is all.

i said it before and ill say it again. sherwood will be a fan favourite in no time for fans to clamour about. fast physical and has skill to play.

 

[crowfish]

If the Pettersson discourse is already like this 2 preseason games in, it's going to be a long and stupid season on this forum.