PP2 Discussion

[Freaky Styley]

This is something I thought at length about last year and probably mentioned at some point, but I think it's time it deserves its own thread especially with the struggles of PP1.

In short, I think the lack of usage of PP2 is sabotaging this team offensively.

All you hear about the Avs is the lack of secondary scoring. It's not like (esp. when healthy) this team lacks talent in the bottom half of the lineup. Toews, Girard, Mitts, Colton, Lehkonen, Parsinnen, Malinski, Innala, all have offensive skills, plus either someone like Landeskog or a different deadline add. What better way to give them confidence 5on5 than to grant them some time with the man down?

Not only should this translate to more PP goals by giving opposition different looks, it should translate to more 5 on 5 offense with the secondary scorers' mojo going. It also provides the added benefit of giving the top guys more rest.

IMO this is the lowest-hanging fruit for Bednar & co. to change up some strategy and really alter the chemistry of the team, yet they just keep beating a dead horse.

Like you're 1 for the last 23. Stop sucking up to the stars and START PP2 on the powerplay. If nothing else it will light a fire under the top guys ass'

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[expatriatedtexan]

I love how our top unit can perform at times. But when I look at the entirety of our team, I can't help but believe another coach could be getting more out of it all.

As for PP2, they've seemed to score when given a chance but I think it's because they come in with a stark difference to the unit they are replacing.

PP1 is all about passing until you have the absolute best shot, or someone f***s up your pocession. PP2 is about launching the puck on net every opportunity you have and even if it's not there. You can't score when you don't shoot. If PP1 isn't shooting, they shouldn't be playing.

Bednar sucks at this, he laments the lack of shots, but doesn't hold anyone accountable for it.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

PP2 should not exist period. The entire 2 minutes should go to the superstars and they should load up PP1 with the 5 best players.


FWIW its one thing the Avs are actually doing right and most other teams are doing this as well now. Although the Avs still use PP2 too much.

 

[Freaky Styley]

PP2 should not exist period. The entire 2 minutes should go to the superstars and they should load up PP1 with the 5 best players.


FWIW its one thing the Avs are actually doing right and most other teams are doing this as well now. Although the Avs still use PP2 too much.

Agree to disagree I suppose. If the PP was rolling and like the Oilers from 2 years ago, sure. It's literally costing us games because it's so ineffective (add another one tonight). Add that to the fact that the Avs are unique in their reliance on their superstars (outside of Edmonton) - both for production and minutes - it makes a lot of sense to actually give your depth players a chance to be effective

 

[expatriatedtexan]

PP2 should not exist period. The entire 2 minutes should go to the superstars and they should load up PP1 with the 5 best players.


FWIW its one thing the Avs are actually doing right and most other teams are doing this as well now. Although the Avs still use PP2 too much.

Yeah, I for one really enjoy watching 2 minutes of failed entries.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Agree to disagree I suppose. If the PP was rolling and like the Oilers from 2 years ago, sure. It's literally costing us games because it's so ineffective (add another one tonight). Add that to the fact that the Avs are unique in their reliance on their superstars (outside of Edmonton) - both for production and minutes - it makes a lot of sense to actually give your depth players a chance to be effective

The PP needs help for sure, but using inferior players isn't going to make it work either. They need to give it a fresh new look and stop forcing the same couple of plays. It's also way too stationary and predictable because of how stationary they are... But something tells me this is more on the players then it is the coaching staff as I really dont think the coaches would want them standing still.

There's actually studies done that have been done that overwhelmingly show teams should never use a 2nd PP unit and that you're hurting yourself by not just using your Top 5 guys for the full 2 minutes.


Now if you're suggesting start PP2 for like a couple of PPs in the next game to send a message to the 1st unit... Sure I dont necessarily think that would hurt. But on a large scale bigger picture, the top guys need more minutes not less.

 

[Freaky Styley]

The PP needs help for sure, but using inferior players isn't going to make it work either.

There's actually studies done that have been done that overwhelmingly show teams should never use a 2nd PP unit and that you're hurting yourself by not just using your Top 5 guys for the full 2 minutes.

That's the problem with most statistical analysis, it leaves out the human element. Shaking up chemistry, giving the inferior players confidence, motivating (and resting) the top guys is what I'm talking about. This is the coaches job and something you're not going to be able to extract from broad stat analysis.

If PP1 was rolling and we had secondary scoring this wouldn't be a discussion

 

[expatriatedtexan]

The PP needs help for sure, but using inferior players isn't going to make it work either.

There's actually studies done that have been done that overwhelmingly show teams should never use a 2nd PP unit and that you're hurting yourself by not just using your Top 5 guys for the full 2 minutes.

Yeah, but if the top dogs won't dump and chase, then you go to the guys who will. Our guys can't beat the stacking of defense on the blue-line. They've shown time and time again it's a complete waste of a power play opportunity. The entire system is rotten to the f***ing core. Even when they get possession nobody shoots. They keep passing looking for something better to materialize until the opposing team just takes the puck away from us.

It should be absolutely humiliating to MacKinnon. I mean, if a reporter had the balls to ask him about the power play, I'd really be interested in his response.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

At some point they have. to start. putting pucks. on net. The incessant passing is killing them. And f***ing find someone who can win the F/O so they aren't chasing for the first :20 - :40 of the PP.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah, but if the top dogs won't dump and chase, then you go to the guys who will. Our guys can't beat the stacking of defense on the blue-line. They've shown time and time again it's a complete waste of a power play opportunity. The entire system is rotten to the f***ing core. Even when they get possession nobody shoots. They keep passing looking for something better to materialize until the opposing team just takes the puck away from us.

It should be absolutely humiliating to MacKinnon. I mean, if a reporter had the balls to ask him about the power play, I'd really be interested in his response.

But your argument doesn't make sense.... Even with the major PP struggles right now, zone entries are not an issue at all. Watch any other team and you'll see the Avs actually gain entry and set up at a high rate.

Mackinnon has the highest successful zone entry rate in the entire league on the PP... He's a zone entry machine. The problems have to do with what they do in the zone. The lack of shooting, the predictable 2-3 plays over and over, the lack of movement, the inability to win loose pucks quite frankly(An area where Mack would deserve a lot of criticism for sure), etc.

Zone entries are about the only thing they do consistently well(Not 100% but nobodies that good).

 

[expatriatedtexan]

But your argument doesn't make sense.... Even with the major PP struggles right now, zone entries are not an issue at all. Watch any other team and you'll see the Avs actually gain entry and set up at a high rate.

Mackinnon has the highest successful zone entry rate in the entire league on the PP... He's a zone entry machine. The problems have to do with what they do in the zone. The lack of shooting, the predictable 2-3 plays over and over, the lack of movement, the inability to win loose pucks quite frankly(An area where Mack would deserve a lot of criticism for sure), etc.

Zone entries are about the only thing they do consistently well(Not 100% but nobodies that good).

I prefer to watch the Avs skate up the ice, drop the puck to MacK, then see MacK skate the line and force a pass to someone with two people on them and the puck gets cleared and we reset. It's too damn predictible. The team absolutely needs another look. The coaches refuse to give them one. Why does PP2 seem to get goals at times when PP1 struggles? Especially with the little ice time they get? It's because those guys try to create traffic, put shots on net and go for the leftovers. PP1 passes around the perimeter until it gets disrupted and cleared or until someone is forced to take a shot (which will be 12' wide or 6' above the net).

All I am saying is that the AC's should have been gone a year if not more ago, and because they are still here Jared Bednar should be feeling a hell of a lot of heat.

 

[Foppa2118]

I've never really liked playing PP1 1:30+ each power play.

Not only has it killed any real PP time for good offensive forwards and defenseman that deserved it, but it never scores late anyway. It just gets worse. Think about how often we've seen PP1 score late in their shift?

Their zone entries get worse, and if they do enter the zone with possession, they usually can't maintain possession enough to set up a good scoring chance.

Bedsy seems to be a big fan of analytics. I feel like PP1 is like 1% or worse the last 4-5 years after one minute on ice. Bedsy needs to look at the results here and strongly consider a different strategy.