PP units with 2 Dmen

[DieSendungmitderMaus]

I know this is a bit trivial but over the summer I watched some not-that-old playoff games on YouTube and was struck by almost all PP units being made up of 3 forwards and 2 D, including some you wouldn't see near the PP these days (Chris Butler). It's pretty incredible how quickly this went from the standard set-up through most of hockey history(?) to totally out of fashion. Got reminded of it the other day when watching the Caps as they had Chycrun and Carlson out there (I assume because of Ovi's injury).

So it got me wondering, who's still out there running a classic PP with two D manning the points? Does your team have a second unit like that, or even the first? Maybe the Sabres are a candidate with Dahlin-Power-Byram on the team, but I don't watch them enough to know. Tbh I don't watch any team enough these days which is why I ask. Or, in turn, any team out there that should go back to two Dmen out there because their 4F1D set isn't working?

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[Sam de Mtl]

PPS used to be set up around a distributor defenseman, a shooter defenseman and then the 3 forwards. The main tactic of many PPs was to shoot from the point. For the others, it still needed to be a treat to create some room down low. Defensemen tend to have a stronger shot from afar.

Nowadays, slapshots from the point is not a regular tactic anymore. Shots from the point tend to be weaker, but focused on getting through the bodies and making its way to the net for tips, rebounds or mayhem.

In a setup with one guy at the top passing around to each side, there isn't as much incentive to put a 2nd defenseman in there. Even if there was, that 2nd defenseman would be too deep in the zone to defend in the case of a turnover, so you might as well have a more offensively focused weapon.

 

[HockeyVirus]

That is because teams figured out quick puck movement is key to a great PP. Most players great at skating forward and handling the puck become forwards, not many dman with that skill set in the NHL. Makes sense to put your 1 guy back there who has experience defending odd rushes and let your forwards move the puck around

 

[tmg]

I think the ‘two point men’ structure is a thing of the past, but I wonder if any teams would revive putting a big hard-to-move defenseman up in the goalie’s face like the Sens did with Chara for a while. I think a few teams do this with a pesky bottom-6ish forward but I wonder if some team whose biggest guy with some modicum of offensive skill is a defenseman (like a Hedman) might revisit this.

 

[kerrabria]

I know this is a bit trivial but over the summer I watched some not-that-old playoff games on YouTube and was struck by almost all PP units being made up of 3 forwards and 2 D, including some you wouldn't see near the PP these days (Chris Butler). It's pretty incredible how quickly this went from the standard set-up through most of hockey history(?) to totally out of fashion. Got reminded of it the other day when watching the Caps as they had Chycrun and Carlson out there (I assume because of Ovi's injury).

So it got me wondering, who's still out there running a classic PP with two D manning the points? Does your team have a second unit like that, or even the first? Maybe the Sabres are a candidate with Dahlin-Power-Byram on the team, but I don't watch them enough to know. Tbh I don't watch any team enough these days which is why I ask. Or, in turn, any team out there that should go back to two Dmen out there because their 4F1D set isn't working?

Funny, I was just thinking about this yesterday morning.
For most of 2023-24, the Panthers' PP1 ran Montour at the point and Ekblad at the left half wall.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Not many teams have the luxury of doing this as you need two skilled PMD to do this. Teams will always have more skilled forwards than skilled dmen who can move the puck quickly.

 

[overpass]

Many people think that a 4 forward power play is a new trend in the past two decades, but it's actually a return to the common practice for most of NHL history. 4F-1D was most common in the Original Six era. A star forward usually played one of the points. Forward PP point-men from this era included Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Bernie Geoffrion, Andy Bathgate, Milt Schmidt, Bobby Rousseau, and Ed Litzenberger.

Max Bentley, a centre, originated the point position as we understand it today in the 1940s, and was remembered as the GOAT PPQB for decades. Toronto made a blockbuster trade for Bentley to be their third line centre and run their power play on the late 40s Toronto dynasty.

Having two defencemen on the points became more popular in the post-Bobby Orr era, as more and more skilled defencemen entered the league. 3F-2D overtook 4F-1D as the most common setup around 1980. This state of affairs lasted for about 30 years, until 4F-1D returned as the more common lineup around 2010. Some teams still ran a forward on the point of the first unit during these years. Jari Kurri, Ron Francis, Joe Sakic, and Daniel Alfredsson come to mind.

 

[dire wolf]

I know this is a bit trivial but over the summer I watched some not-that-old playoff games on YouTube and was struck by almost all PP units being made up of 3 forwards and 2 D, including some you wouldn't see near the PP these days (Chris Butler). It's pretty incredible how quickly this went from the standard set-up through most of hockey history(?) to totally out of fashion. Got reminded of it the other day when watching the Caps as they had Chycrun and Carlson out there (I assume because of Ovi's injury).

So it got me wondering, who's still out there running a classic PP with two D manning the points? Does your team have a second unit like that, or even the first? Maybe the Sabres are a candidate with Dahlin-Power-Byram on the team, but I don't watch them enough to know. Tbh I don't watch any team enough these days which is why I ask. Or, in turn, any team out there that should go back to two Dmen out there because their 4F1D set isn't working?

Yeah - the Sabres often use 2 D on the PP this year when everyone is healthy (e.g., Byram and Dahlin), but they don't use the old-school formation with both D on the blue line. Dahlin QBs PP1. Byram typically plays the right flank position.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I think the ‘two point men’ structure is a thing of the past, but I wonder if any teams would revive putting a big hard-to-move defenseman up in the goalie’s face like the Sens did with Chara for a while. I think a few teams do this with a pesky bottom-6ish forward but I wonder if some team whose biggest guy with some modicum of offensive skill is a defenseman (like a Hedman) might revisit this.

Sabres did this with Risto for a bit, and I’d still argue it’s not a bad use for him. Dude could smash guys in the corners/behind the net and (in theory) provide solid D as well. They never stuck with it for long, unfortunately.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I see more of
4F 1D on PP1
3F 2D on PP2

 

[qc14]

I really hope they keep Chychrun and Carlson on PP1 even when Ovi gets back

 

[1989]

The Flames once utilized a 5 D powerplay unit.

Once.

 

[Czechboy]

I'm actually curious if any of the 4 nation teams do it at the upcoming 'cup'? Canada, US and Sweden, in partricular, all have at least 2D (easily) that could do that. They also all have amazing forwards as well and could do a 4-1 easily too.

 

[TheNumber4]

The Flames once utilized a 5 D powerplay unit.

Once.

That's so talentless hack of them, I could totally see it.

 

[Coffey]

I'm actually curious if any of the 4 nation teams do it at the upcoming 'cup'? Canada, US and Sweden, in partricular, all have at least 2D (easily) that could do that. They also all have amazing forwards as well and could do a 4-1 easily too.

Ekblad making sure Canada didn't have Bouchard in that PP

 

[BKarchitect]

Many people think that a 4 forward power play is a new trend in the past two decades, but it's actually a return to the common practice for most of NHL history. 4F-1D was most common in the Original Six era. A star forward usually played one of the points. Forward PP point-men from this era included Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Bernie Geoffrion, Andy Bathgate, Milt Schmidt, Bobby Rousseau, and Ed Litzenberger.

Max Bentley, a centre, originated the point position as we understand it today in the 1940s, and was remembered as the GOAT PPQB for decades. Toronto made a blockbuster trade for Bentley to be their third line centre and run their power play on the late 40s Toronto dynasty.

Having two defencemen on the points became more popular in the post-Bobby Orr era, as more and more skilled defencemen entered the league. 3F-2D overtook 4F-1D as the most common setup around 1980. This state of affairs lasted for about 30 years, until 4F-1D returned as the more common lineup around 2010. Some teams still ran a forward on the point of the first unit during these years. Jari Kurri, Ron Francis, Joe Sakic, and Daniel Alfredsson come to mind.

Fascinating post. Thanks for the history lesson!

 

[Chainshot]

I know this is a bit trivial but over the summer I watched some not-that-old playoff games on YouTube and was struck by almost all PP units being made up of 3 forwards and 2 D, including some you wouldn't see near the PP these days (Chris Butler). It's pretty incredible how quickly this went from the standard set-up through most of hockey history(?) to totally out of fashion. Got reminded of it the other day when watching the Caps as they had Chycrun and Carlson out there (I assume because of Ovi's injury).

So it got me wondering, who's still out there running a classic PP with two D manning the points? Does your team have a second unit like that, or even the first? Maybe the Sabres are a candidate with Dahlin-Power-Byram on the team, but I don't watch them enough to know. Tbh I don't watch any team enough these days which is why I ask. Or, in turn, any team out there that should go back to two Dmen out there because their 4F1D set isn't working?

Buffalo's first unit is usually Dahlin as the only defenseman. The 2nd unit is usually Power, sometimes Power and Byram but usually just Power. With Dahlin out, Byram gets one unit, Power the other.

 

[Chainshot]

The Flames once utilized a 5 D powerplay unit.

Once.

They also had a 3 D PP at times with Suter and McInnis as the shooters and Paul Reinhart as the high hub handling the distributing.

 

[the valiant effort]

Even “4F/1D” is a restrictive box. As we see in some of the posts above, who are my 5 best available players is question #1. From there you break it down further.

Our Habs obviously have a good no-brainer fivesome they can deploy for PP1. The second unit, not so much. Yet they apply the 4F/1D “philosophy” icing Matheson (formerly Hutson) with less-than-stellar forwards in place of Xhekaj’s bomb or perhaps Guhle’s mobility/IQ. It’s foolish to box yourself into anything.

 

[Grifter3511]

That is because teams figured out quick puck movement is key to a great PP. Most players great at skating forward and handling the puck become forwards, not many dman with that skill set in the NHL. Makes sense to put your 1 guy back there who has experience defending odd rushes and let your forwards move the puck around

And by quick you mean after 60 years of the traditional booming shot from the point, right?