Potential roster fixes for 2025-26 and beyond
- Thread starter Fistfullofbeer
- Start date
The Marquis
Moderator
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
I think you've got to take a realistic look at the team and try to figure out who actually has some positive trade value and could get you something back.
I think guys like Stephenson and Montour will be here cause those contracts are hard(Montour) or next to possible(Stephenson) to move.
Unless you're willing to retain for six seasons and give up a retainment spot over that time. And that's only possible for Montour.
But hey, you need to hit the cap floor and they help with that....
You also need to know that Francis won't be the guy doing any of that(cause that would admit failure of his and requires being bold in decision making) and so it probably won't start before next offseason with the exception of expiring guys like Gourde, Tanev and Borgen.
After that I think guys like Oleksiak, Bjorkstrand, Tolvanen, Eberle, Dunn and McCann(if you really want to start over) have some value and you could also dangle D'Accord in front of teams to guarantee yourself of not finishing above about 5th worst given the goaltending.
Heck, if you do trade Joey, you could even keep Grubauer(you need to hit the cap floor and it's probably better to have that deal completely off your books within two instead of four seasons) for sh*ts and giggles...
Anyways, this roster right now is a mess that will be tough to fix and will need a different group of decisions makers + ownership accepting that "competing now" is not going to happen for a couple of years.
I'm not sure that will happen cause it needs quite a few people admitting they were wrong in how to approach the start of this franchise.
I think guys like Stephenson and Montour will be here cause those contracts are hard(Montour) or next to possible(Stephenson) to move.
Unless you're willing to retain for six seasons and give up a retainment spot over that time. And that's only possible for Montour.
But hey, you need to hit the cap floor and they help with that....
You also need to know that Francis won't be the guy doing any of that(cause that would admit failure of his and requires being bold in decision making) and so it probably won't start before next offseason with the exception of expiring guys like Gourde, Tanev and Borgen.
After that I think guys like Oleksiak, Bjorkstrand, Tolvanen, Eberle, Dunn and McCann(if you really want to start over) have some value and you could also dangle D'Accord in front of teams to guarantee yourself of not finishing above about 5th worst given the goaltending.
Heck, if you do trade Joey, you could even keep Grubauer(you need to hit the cap floor and it's probably better to have that deal completely off your books within two instead of four seasons) for sh*ts and giggles...
Anyways, this roster right now is a mess that will be tough to fix and will need a different group of decisions makers + ownership accepting that "competing now" is not going to happen for a couple of years.
I'm not sure that will happen cause it needs quite a few people admitting they were wrong in how to approach the start of this franchise.
The Marquis
Moderator
I think that aside from Oleksiak that the blue line is fine and even then Oleksiak is passable at this contract, though I still move Borgen for assets.
Now our forward group is brutal. The hardest working guys are up at the end of the year. Can we do better? With what they make now, probably, but it’s not a sure thing.
I’d trade both Gourde and Tanev for assets, try to move Schwartz and Burakovsky for guys not made of glass. I hold onto Beniers, Eberle, McCann and Stephenson. I consider moving Bjorkstrand and/or Tolvanen for the right return, but only that. Kartye stays, and I’d also consider moving Wright if the return were stellar. Gotta get a return based entirely on potential and also with a complimentary piece that produces at least what he does now.
Tl;dr - blow up the forwards except McCann, Beniers and Eberle.
Now our forward group is brutal. The hardest working guys are up at the end of the year. Can we do better? With what they make now, probably, but it’s not a sure thing.
I’d trade both Gourde and Tanev for assets, try to move Schwartz and Burakovsky for guys not made of glass. I hold onto Beniers, Eberle, McCann and Stephenson. I consider moving Bjorkstrand and/or Tolvanen for the right return, but only that. Kartye stays, and I’d also consider moving Wright if the return were stellar. Gotta get a return based entirely on potential and also with a complimentary piece that produces at least what he does now.
Tl;dr - blow up the forwards except McCann, Beniers and Eberle.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
Why Eberle?
He'll be 35 next summer going into his final season of that contract and certainly won't be all that interested in participating in a rebuild/re-tool.
I think he would be a prime candidate(even if it takes retaining money and giving up a retention spot for one season) to actually fetch you something given his status around the league.
Guys like Schwartz and Burakovsky(two more years after this one) would be really tough to move and cost us.
If you really want to rebuild/(re-tool you'll probably just keep them and let those contrracts expire.
BTW: Unless Wright goes through the roof, from now on. no one's going to trade much for him.
And if he goes through the roof, there's no point in trading him for the kraken.
His development so far hasn't been greate and there are more question marks around him and his actualy potential then there were at the draft in 2022.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
If Schwartz plays the way he has been playing, remains injury free and continues to get points I think he could garner a fair bit of interest at the TDL. Sure we would need to retain but it would be just for 1 season and likely get us back something small. i.e no negative value
I don't want to trade Wright. With the mess that the team is, I am not going to worry too much about his lack of production this season. Plus like you said, the best return we can hope for is a prospect which another team is down on and needs a change of scenery as well.
Burakovsky is untradeable right now unless we add something like 2 x 2nd round picks for him plus retain on him as well. Eberle, I am pretty neutral on. Keep him or trade him, he just has one more season left. But if your plan is to "rebuild" moving him would be the best step forward.
I think we need to have all roster players on the table other than Beniers, Wright, Evans. All three of those are born between 2000-2002 and McCann and Dunn were born in 1996. To me those are the core players but if we can get really promising assets for those two, I would not be opposed moving them either.
I agree this is looking like the year to sell "high" (relative) on Schwartz. I think Eberle will stick around, be the captain and eventually bump down when/ if he's surpassed.
Maybe Bura will really turn it around and garner some interest, but not holding my breath.
I get the argument for trading Borgen but do like having him around. Hardly any snarl on this team aside from him.
Maybe Bura will really turn it around and garner some interest, but not holding my breath.
I get the argument for trading Borgen but do like having him around. Hardly any snarl on this team aside from him.
finnishflash13
Registered User
- Oct 28, 2020
- 226
- 178
this is an interesting thread because a couple of those glaring contracts came this past off-season. what has francis done in his tenure to make this team competitive? i can't really think of anything. he's signed aging players to bad contracts, and has done so since day 1.
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Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
The reason for trading Borgen would be related to his next contract. He is a pending UFA and will get a substantial raise due to the physicality he plays with. Between Evans's new RFA contract and the existing contracts for Montour, Dunn, Oleksiak, and Larsson, that would be a costly group of D men. We might as well trade him at the TDL.
Trading our pending UFAs in Gourde and Borgen should get us some decent assets without gutting skill on the team. Target UFA or trades to get a physical bottom-6 F and bottom-pairing D. Those moves, a Gru buyout and moving on from Tanev, should create more than enough space to replace those positions for cheaper. This team has so much mediocrity that you could move multiple players in the bottom-9 and still make things work.
McCann, Bjorkstrand, and Beniers are this team's only true top-6 forwards today. Players like Bura, Schwartz, Stephenson, and Tolvanen are all 3rd line players playing over their heads. Move on from whoever you can and find someone who is a better fit. Find players who are more reliant on following a system and willing to go to the net than the passengers on this team.
I agree with what the ECH folks talked about in their last podcast. This group is just not getting it done. You want to surround Wright, Evans, and Beniers with the right vets. Evans is lucky enough to get some good ones. Cannot say the same for the forward group.
Scomerica
Registered User
I take it this is under the assumption Francis is fired? Otherwise I don't see a chance in hell of him doing any of this.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Historically, you are right. He seems averse to making trades to improve the team and appeared to double down on his belief in this "core" by adding Montour and Stephenson. He also re-signed Eberle to a 2 year contract.
For the sake of the Kraken, we can hope he learned from his time in Carolina and realizes that this team has too many passengers and vets unwilling to play the way the system demands. Interestingly, the question about Ron Francis' future came up in the last ECH podcast, and they seem to think that Francis may lose his job if we miss the playoffs this season.
To me the trade for Sprong was another obvious example that Francis seems to be at a loss on what to do. I get that it was a low risk trade but did he really expect the addition of Sprong to "fix" us. If he is unable to make the tough decisions a GM needs to make, then I would like him gone sooner than later.
Scomerica
Registered User
Speaking of which, is there any available gm's out there who would be a good fit for what we need to do? Either retread or up and comer? I know hockey is an old boys club
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
I think you're going to look at assistant GM's of successfull franchises like the Lightning etc.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
If. Big IF.
But if Brady Tkachuk is available in the off-season, it could be a good fit. I think he is the kind of player that we need. A hard-nosed player with skill. The perfect player for Wright, Beniers, Catton, etc. to learn from. He is 25 and signed for another 3 seasons after this at 8.2M.
It would cost some good pick(s) and prospect(s) but that is the kind of trade that could help put the team on the right track sooner than later. I know that most of us want to go with the "rebuild" but I just don't see that happening with Francis.
That being said, I don't see Francis making a trade like that anyway so its probably not going to happen anyway ..
But if Brady Tkachuk is available in the off-season, it could be a good fit. I think he is the kind of player that we need. A hard-nosed player with skill. The perfect player for Wright, Beniers, Catton, etc. to learn from. He is 25 and signed for another 3 seasons after this at 8.2M.
It would cost some good pick(s) and prospect(s) but that is the kind of trade that could help put the team on the right track sooner than later. I know that most of us want to go with the "rebuild" but I just don't see that happening with Francis.
That being said, I don't see Francis making a trade like that anyway so its probably not going to happen anyway ..
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
If. Big IF.
But if Brady Tkachuk is available in the off-season, it could be a good fit. I think he is the kind of player that we need. A hard-nosed player with skill. The perfect player for Wright, Beniers, Catton, etc. to learn from. He is 25 and signed for another 3 seasons after this at 8.2M.
It would cost some good pick(s) and prospect(s) but that is the kind of trade that could help put the team on the right track sooner than later. I know that most of us want to go with the "rebuild" but I just don't see that happening with Francis.
That being said, I don't see Francis making a trade like that anyway so its probably not going to happen anyway ..
Probably more like Tom Wilson.
He's won a cup!
The Marquis
Moderator
This thread is depressing... but at least we have the NHL in Seattle
Blowing it up sounds good to me. The league has had an issue lately though that bad teams tend to stay bad. So we have to apply some lessons there.
If guys like Tolvanen and Gourde aren't returning 1st round picks, and they're not good enough to keep us out of the basement, then why not keep them through the start of the rebuild? For so many of the clubs that have been unable to exit rebuilds, the lesson seems to be "wish we kept that guy", referring to the leaders who "knew how to play the right way". Rebuilding clubs get stuck with bad details and the problem becomes permanent no matter how many hardass coaches you throw at it.
We might just be organically rebuilding, meaning it's happening anyways. The club is already accumulating young talent. Trying to lose isn't even necessary at this point (we're already losing) and it might actually be very harmful in the long run to try (because of the erosion of effort and details).
I can't imagine how we'd land Tkachuk if Wright, Beniers, and Catton are not on the table.
If guys like Tolvanen and Gourde aren't returning 1st round picks, and they're not good enough to keep us out of the basement, then why not keep them through the start of the rebuild? For so many of the clubs that have been unable to exit rebuilds, the lesson seems to be "wish we kept that guy", referring to the leaders who "knew how to play the right way". Rebuilding clubs get stuck with bad details and the problem becomes permanent no matter how many hardass coaches you throw at it.
We might just be organically rebuilding, meaning it's happening anyways. The club is already accumulating young talent. Trying to lose isn't even necessary at this point (we're already losing) and it might actually be very harmful in the long run to try (because of the erosion of effort and details).
If. Big IF.
But if Brady Tkachuk is available in the off-season, it could be a good fit. I think he is the kind of player that we need. A hard-nosed player with skill. The perfect player for Wright, Beniers, Catton, etc. to learn from. He is 25 and signed for another 3 seasons after this at 8.2M.
It would cost some good pick(s) and prospect(s) but that is the kind of trade that could help put the team on the right track sooner than later. I know that most of us want to go with the "rebuild" but I just don't see that happening with Francis.
That being said, I don't see Francis making a trade like that anyway so its probably not going to happen anyway ..
I can't imagine how we'd land Tkachuk if Wright, Beniers, and Catton are not on the table.
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It would likely take Catton, Evans and and one or more first round draft choices to whet their interest. A higher price than we can afford to pay, anyway.
The minimum to whet their interest, yes. I could see the winning bid requiring a bigger name prospect than even Catton.
Brady is a really rare super valuable player type but there are some issues there that would make me very wary of bringing him in. He seems to be a bad leader. He just whines a lot, and doesn't play smart or defensively responsible. He could be the second or third best player on a top contender but if he's the guy on your team, as he would be here in Seattle, then I think it would be a badly led team. I'm very okay not trading for him.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Can't argue with you guys really. I am sure it would take one of our top-4 prospects, and I have reservations about his leadership as well. But from a playstyle perspective he would be a really good fit.
