Speculation: Potential Coaching Replacements for Jim Montgomery

[TobanWest]

Wasn't Dom's suggestion Dale Hunter?

 

[Dr Quincy]

Is it? It was the player's decision to drastically change their style of play and try to be Florida Panthers - Temu edition?

To me that is clearly what the coaching staff have done here. If you can't beat em', join 'em. How did the Panthers win? Let's do more of that is basically what the coaches have decided to do. But they don't have the personnel to play that game, it's on the coaching staff to realize that.

Coaches? Or a certain team president?

The Bruins and the Leafs should trade coaches

I'd rather trade #1Cs.

 

[TobanWest]

Wasn't Dom's suggestion Dale Hunter?

Not sure what's funny quincey

 

[PlayMakers]

I was going by this article from last year. I guess the thing about the hybrid is it's a big grey area, you can have a somewhat passive hybrid or a very aggressive hybrid bordering on man-to-man. I agree with you that the Panthers play an fairly aggressive defensive scheme in their own end.

The motivation like you said could be upset at the change, or upset that it's not changed enough.

Systems Analyst: Breaking down the best defensive strategies for playoffs

Which defensive zone systems win Stanley Cups, and which have had less playoff success? Justin Bourne, with help from Andrew Brewer, looks at recent trends, what it means for this year's playoffs, and which teams may be most vulnerable.

www.sportsnet.ca

Some interesting thoughts from DeBoer…

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848349211563016694

 

[TD Charlie]

They need more pricks

 

[BigGoalBrad]

They need more pricks

Mad Mike Keenan if he's not old and senile would be perfect.

If they come out flat tomorrow and lose again to Philly Monty has to be gone... Right... Right?

I'll be bummed if he's fired before a core player is traded.

 

[PlayMakers]

I was going by this article from last year. I guess the thing about the hybrid is it's a big grey area, you can have a somewhat passive hybrid or a very aggressive hybrid bordering on man-to-man. I agree with you that the Panthers play an fairly aggressive defensive scheme in their own end.

The motivation like you said could be upset at the change, or upset that it's not changed enough.

Systems Analyst: Breaking down the best defensive strategies for playoffs

Which defensive zone systems win Stanley Cups, and which have had less playoff success? Justin Bourne, with help from Andrew Brewer, looks at recent trends, what it means for this year's playoffs, and which teams may be most vulnerable.

www.sportsnet.ca

So, that's some good analysis, but IMO, he's leaving out other types of hybrids. He describes a hybrid as a Dzone that starts out as a zone, then shifts to man to man. That's what Florida does and they take it another step by getting super aggressive and outnumbering the puck carrier any time there is a bobble or pressure, so the man to man quickly turns into a swarm.

Another type of hybrid, and this is what I think the Bruins have been trying to do, is to play a zone down low and man to man up high. A lot of junior teams in the area play this way because it allows you to better handle 3 forwards high while not losing your structure when the puck is down low.

Personally, I've always been a fan of the zone. It eliminates slot shots and it prevents you from getting beat 1on1 because there is a second layer to back you up. However, the zone struggles against a FLA style offense because they are not trying to penetrate with stick handling or even passing inside. They spam the net with shots from anywhere and then try to win battles inside and get their scoring chances on rebounds, tips, deflections, goalie interference, etc... That works really well against the zone because when you're in a zone you don't pressure guys on the outside. The idea is you're happy to give up the low quality shots as long as you prevent passes and attacks from getting to the high scoring areas. Which is why Florida gets so much zone time and looks like they can skate around our zone with impunity. It's because they can. We give them that. We used to laugh at teams who did that, thinking they were accomplishing anything. But that was when we had the D to box out and prevent those tips and second chance opportunities. Vegas beat Florida playing a zone, but again, they had a very big D, AND Cassidy loves quick outs and stretch plays so Vegas got out of their end quicker on dump ins.

 

[BruinDust]

Some interesting thoughts from DeBoer…

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848349211563016694

Fantastic stuff. I said this I believe in another thread (or maybe this thread lol) about a Ken Hitchcock interview (I think it was on Jeff Marek's show but don't quote me on that) where he basically said if you want buy-in from the group on a defensive system, you have to get buy-in from your top players first, or you'll never get it from the rest of the group.

Debour's comments about maybe changing up the system taking until Xmas is interesting. Do they Bruins have that much time though to get the hang of the changes?

Their change to the defensive scheme in their own end (going to a hybrid with 3 high at times) might of also been done to counter Florida. I found one drawback of the zone collapsing D was it puts a lot of sticks, shinpads, etc. for pucks to hit and redirect off of. Sometimes during the two FLA series it felt like only a matter of time that FLA would keep shooting and shooting and eventually a puck would ricochet 2 or 3 times off a pile of bodies and end up in the back of the net.

If they want this change to work, I think Monty needs to leave his D-pairs alone for awhile, but he also needs to decide on who his 4 centers will be. They are the key to making this entire thing work. They've used 8 different guys as centers so far this year. Keeping it to the same 4 guys should help this transition go smoother and quicker for everyone involved.

 

[BruinDust]

So, that's some good analysis, but IMO, he's leaving out other types of hybrids. He describes a hybrid as a Dzone that starts out as a zone, then shifts to man to man. That's what Florida does and they take it another step by getting super aggressive and outnumbering the puck carrier any time there is a bobble or pressure, so the man to man quickly turns into a swarm.

Another type of hybrid, and this is what I think the Bruins have been trying to do, is to play a zone down low and man to man up high. A lot of junior teams in the area play this way because it allows you to better handle 3 forwards high while not losing your structure when the puck is down low.

Personally, I've always been a fan of the zone. It eliminates slot shots and it prevents you from getting beat 1on1 because there is a second layer to back you up. However, the zone struggles against a FLA style offense because they are not trying to penetrate with stick handling or even passing inside. They spam the net with shots from anywhere and then try to win battles inside and get their scoring chances on rebounds, tips, deflections, goalie interference, etc... That works really well against the zone because when you're in a zone you don't pressure guys on the outside. The idea is you're happy to give up the low quality shots as long as you prevent passes and attacks from getting to the high scoring areas. Which is why Florida gets so much zone time and looks like they can skate around our zone with impunity. It's because they can. We give them that. We used to laugh at teams who did that, thinking they were accomplishing anything. But that was when we had the D to box out and prevent those tips and second chance opportunities. Vegas beat Florida playing a zone, but again, they had a very big D, AND Cassidy loves quick outs and stretch plays so Vegas got out of their end quicker on dump ins.

I think you were typing as I was typing lol. Good stuff.

I'm a fan of zone as well. And the Bruins now have a big D-corps too. Which makes this change to a more fluid hybrid scheme more frustrating. I think a guy like a Zadorov would excel in a zone scheme. Instead he's chasing guys trying to mash them and getting pulled out of position.

 

[Ladyfan]

I think the players deserve a big part of the blame but you can’t excuse the coach completely. It’s his job to motivate, inspire, teach, get the group on the same page, etc… He hasn’t been able to do any of that and it’s not one or two guys, it’s every important player on this team.

Somewhere along the way he lost their respect. They don’t want to play for him. That’s on both parties.

This^

 

[Over the volcano]

I'll be bummed if he's fired before a core player is traded.

How many core players are left from when he came in?

 

[BigGoalBrad]

How many core players are left from when he came in?

Definition has changed. Middle roster plugs like Carlo and Coyle are now core guys.

 

[EverettMike]

Okay, it's 5:30 on a Friday. If he survives the 90 next minutes he's coaching tomorrow's game.

 

[PlayMakers]

Fantastic stuff. I said this I believe in another thread (or maybe this thread lol) about a Ken Hitchcock interview (I think it was on Jeff Marek's show but don't quote me on that) where he basically said if you want buy-in from the group on a defensive system, you have to get buy-in from your top players first, or you'll never get it from the rest of the group.

Debour's comments about maybe changing up the system taking until Xmas is interesting. Do they Bruins have that much time though to get the hang of the changes?

Their change to the defensive scheme in their own end (going to a hybrid with 3 high at times) might of also been done to counter Florida. I found one drawback of the zone collapsing D was it puts a lot of sticks, shinpads, etc. for pucks to hit and redirect off of. Sometimes during the two FLA series it felt like only a matter of time that FLA would keep shooting and shooting and eventually a puck would ricochet 2 or 3 times off a pile of bodies and end up in the back of the net.

If they want this change to work, I think Monty needs to leave his D-pairs alone for awhile, but he also needs to decide on who his 4 centers will be. They are the key to making this entire thing work. They've used 8 different guys as centers so far this year. Keeping it to the same 4 guys should help this transition go smoother and quicker for everyone involved.

Yeah, his comment about change taking until at least Xmas is valid. Especially for a team that's played the same way for so long that other coaches in the league refer to it as the "Boston System."

I do think it's more than that though. It's not like they're racing around making mistakes out of aggression. They're lolly gagging around making mistakes out of a lack of effort. And it extends to the offensive zone and how they kill their own offense with careless giveaways.

 

[PlayMakers]

Okay, it's 5:30 on a Friday. If he survives the 90 next minutes he's coaching tomorrow's game.

I wonder if they're going to go through the whole rigamarole where first they announce they're not firing him. Then we get a closed door meeting. Then we get threats of a trade. Then a players only meeting, etc etc.

At the very least, they owe Montgomery a meeting between management, coaches and the leadership group where harsh words are said and everyone's stance is made clear.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Fantastic stuff. I said this I believe in another thread (or maybe this thread lol) about a Ken Hitchcock interview (I think it was on Jeff Marek's show but don't quote me on that) where he basically said if you want buy-in from the group on a defensive system, you have to get buy-in from your top players first, or you'll never get it from the rest of the group.

Debour's comments about maybe changing up the system taking until Xmas is interesting. Do they Bruins have that much time though to get the hang of the changes?

Their change to the defensive scheme in their own end (going to a hybrid with 3 high at times) might of also been done to counter Florida. I found one drawback of the zone collapsing D was it puts a lot of sticks, shinpads, etc. for pucks to hit and redirect off of. Sometimes during the two FLA series it felt like only a matter of time that FLA would keep shooting and shooting and eventually a puck would ricochet 2 or 3 times off a pile of bodies and end up in the back of the net.

If they want this change to work, I think Monty needs to leave his D-pairs alone for awhile, but he also needs to decide on who his 4 centers will be. They are the key to making this entire thing work. They've used 8 different guys as centers so far this year. Keeping it to the same 4 guys should help this transition go smoother and quicker for everyone involved.

This aspect continues to baffle me. I don't understand how you're supposed to get any sort of system and cohesion solidly in place when the spine and D corps are constantly being changed around. It defies logic.

I do think the Bruins' main problems so far have been more influenced by a combination of lack of effort, confidence and intent than systemic or tactical issues. But the latter impact the former and can't be helping the overall situation. The problem now, as has already been said, is that the Bruins have already fallen into so deep a hole, at least in terms of their general play if not in the standings, that Monty or whoever else were to take up the reins probably does not have time now to be patient in allowing a revised system or more settled lineup to properly get established and working effectively. But Monty has to wear at least part of the blame for that in letting things get to this point in the first place.

 

[Dicky113]

Because on paper the defense should be very good, they have a legit #1 goaltender and, despite the lack of top end talent up front --- sometimes hard work, playing smart and showing intensity overcomes that lack of talent.

This team has generally not worked hard, played smart or shown intensity.

Sometimes the right coach can fix what's wrong with a given group

Because on paper the defense should be very good, they have a legit #1 goaltender and, despite the lack of top end talent up front --- sometimes hard work, playing smart and showing intensity overcomes that lack of talent.

This team has generally not worked hard, played smart or shown intensity.

Sometimes the right coach can fix what's wrong with a given group.

On paper their D are ok but a bit slow, their starting goalie is unproven and they have 2 top six forwards if I’m being generous to Lindholm. The only thing they really have going for them is a solid 4th line.
You can’t win that way. It’s a train wreck of a roster, legitimately may be the worst forward group in the league; it’s time people wake up to what has happened here.

 

[BruinDust]

This aspect continues to baffle me. I don't understand how you're supposed to get any sort of system and cohesion solidly in place when the spine and D corps are constantly being changed around. It defies logic.

I do think the Bruins' main problems so far have been more influenced by a combination of lack of effort, confidence and intent than systemic or tactical issues. But the latter impact the former and can't be helping the overall situation. The problem now, as has already been said, is that the Bruins have already fallen into so deep a hole, at least in terms of their general play if not in the standings, that Monty or whoever else were to take up the reins probably does not have time now to be patient in allowing a revised system or more settled lineup to properly get established and working effectively. But Monty has to wear at least part of the blame for that in letting things get to this point in the first place.

I felt his preseason was baffling as well. If you are trying to make change (or change) to the systems, fine and dandy. But why have this disjointed camp/preseason where we were still seeing AHL guys late into the exhibition schedule? He should of basically cut the roster halfway through and started to get the guys who he knew would be here better acclimated to the changes.

Confidence and motivation is also a huge problem right now. Across the board.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

On paper their D are ok but a bit slow, their starting goalie is unproven and they have 2 top six forwards if I’m being generous to Lindholm. The only thing they really have going for them is a solid 4th line.
You can’t win that way. It’s a train wreck of a roster, legitimately may be the worst forward group in the league; it’s time people wake up to what has happened here.

You can win that way. The Bruins did it last year. This team should be better. A scoring challenged team should be spamming shots at the net and crashing for rebounds. We've had multiple games where we have single digit shots well into it. No idea what changed.

 

[bigbadbruins1]

Bruins are just waiting for some other kind of big news to drop before they fire him so it can be buried behind something else.

 

[sarge88]

On paper their D are ok but a bit slow, their starting goalie is unproven and they have 2 top six forwards if I’m being generous to Lindholm. The only thing they really have going for them is a solid 4th line.
You can’t win that way. It’s a train wreck of a roster, legitimately may be the worst forward group in the league; it’s time people wake up to what has happened here.

They lost one difference maker up front in DeBrusk and brought in Lindholm.

Not saying they’re a cup favorite but they aren’t this bad.

Something is amiss and I think a coaching change could have a big impact…as we’ve seen many times over in this league.

Plus the back end should be much better.

 

[Kegs]

So, that's some good analysis, but IMO, he's leaving out other types of hybrids. He describes a hybrid as a Dzone that starts out as a zone, then shifts to man to man. That's what Florida does and they take it another step by getting super aggressive and outnumbering the puck carrier any time there is a bobble or pressure, so the man to man quickly turns into a swarm.

Another type of hybrid, and this is what I think the Bruins have been trying to do, is to play a zone down low and man to man up high. A lot of junior teams in the area play this way because it allows you to better handle 3 forwards high while not losing your structure when the puck is down low.

Personally, I've always been a fan of the zone. It eliminates slot shots and it prevents you from getting beat 1on1 because there is a second layer to back you up. However, the zone struggles against a FLA style offense because they are not trying to penetrate with stick handling or even passing inside. They spam the net with shots from anywhere and then try to win battles inside and get their scoring chances on rebounds, tips, deflections, goalie interference, etc... That works really well against the zone because when you're in a zone you don't pressure guys on the outside. The idea is you're happy to give up the low quality shots as long as you prevent passes and attacks from getting to the high scoring areas. Which is why Florida gets so much zone time and looks like they can skate around our zone with impunity. It's because they can. We give them that. We used to laugh at teams who did that, thinking they were accomplishing anything. But that was when we had the D to box out and prevent those tips and second chance opportunities. Vegas beat Florida playing a zone, but again, they had a very big D, AND Cassidy loves quick outs and stretch plays so Vegas got out of their end quicker on dump ins.

Mourice is a playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers

 

[Forester65]

They lost one difference maker up front in DeBrusk and brought in Lindholm.

Not saying they’re a cup favorite but they aren’t this bad.

Something is amiss and I think a coaching change could have a big impact…as we’ve seen many times over in this league.

Plus the back end should be much better.

I think what is missing is effort out on the ice. These guys aren't coming to the game ready to compete hard. There in NO WAY they should have been blown out 8-2 by Carolina, shut out 2-0 by the Flyers and 4-0 by Nashville. They ought to be ashamed and they need to get f'n moving.

 

[PB37]

Would be fascinating to listen to the conversations going on behind closed doors - from management offices to the players in the locker room. For as much dysfunction going on, there's no valid rumors or leaks for us to kind of point a finger one way or another as to the cause of all of this.