Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[dj4aces]

Probably won't last long, as more and more people enter the work force who were kids during COVID and become managers etc the WFH will gradually go away over the next 10-20 years

I would argue the exact opposite. If anything, we will see more work from home type jobs. COVID merely illustrated to people that what they do really doesn't need to be done from an office building, but can be done from the comfort of their own home at the same efficiency level, if not more efficiently. Yes, even management folks are working from home, with only minimal time spent in the office.

The sooner companies realize things will never go back to the way they were, the better.

 

[nhlfan79]

There's an interesting interview with Bill Daly in The Athletic today, where they touch on a number of issues, including progressing CBA talks and expansion to Houston and Atlanta.

The takeaway is that there will be no "expansion process" per se, as the league will not be openly soliciting bids. Rather, they already are having ongoing conversations with interested parties, and if/when any of those parties check all the boxes, they would forward that interest to the Executive Committee, and, if then appropriate, finally to the Board of Governors to "take their temperature on whether it’s something they want to pursue."

Daly added that, because of the tremendous global growth of the sport since the late 1990s-era expansion of four teams, he has no concern at all that a new round of expansion might result in dilution of talent in the league.

Progress on NHL postseason salary cap, expansion, concussion protocol and more: Bill Daly Q&A

In an exclusive with The Athletic, the deputy commissioner said the NHL and NHLPA have "made progress" on closing the LTIR playoff loophole.

www.nytimes.com

 

[RoyalAir]

There's an interesting interview with Bill Daly in The Athletic today, where they touch on a number of issues, including progressing CBA talks and expansion to Houston and Atlanta.

The takeaway is that there will be no "expansion process" per se, as the league will not be openly soliciting bids. Rather, they already are having ongoing conversations with interested parties, and if/when any of those parties check all the boxes, they would forward that interest to the Executive Committee, and, if then appropriate, finally to the Board of Governors to "take their temperature on whether it’s something they want to pursue."

Daly added that, because of the tremendous global growth of the sport since the late 1990s-era expansion of four teams, he has no concern at all that a new round of expansion might result in dilution of talent in the league.

Progress on NHL postseason salary cap, expansion, concussion protocol and more: Bill Daly Q&A

In an exclusive with The Athletic, the deputy commissioner said the NHL and NHLPA have "made progress" on closing the LTIR playoff loophole.

www.nytimes.com

Sounds like they have their markets, and likely their owners picked out.

This is much better business than outright soliciting bids. *know* where you want ti go, and who you want to go with. Don't be listening to random groups from, say, New Orleans.

Question is, who does the NHL prefer from Atlanta? Carter or Krause?

 

[dj4aces]

Question is, who does the NHL prefer from Atlanta? Carter or Krause?

Never forget the unknown group behind door number three. Daly mentioned "three groups" last year, and Krause in his recent 11Alive interview. However likely or unlikely one might think their possible bid might be, they're still there. Who that group is would be anyone's guess.

But with that said, it's definitely a good question as to which group they prefer. But also, while the league continues to publicly say there's "no timetable" on expansion, it's entirely likely that if someone steps forward with a great plan, it doesn't really matter which owner they like, they'll take the one with all their ducks in a row.

 

[aqib]

Never forget the unknown group behind door number three. Daly mentioned "three groups" last year, and Krause in his recent 11Alive interview. However likely or unlikely one might think their possible bid might be, they're still there. Who that group is would be anyone's guess.

But with that said, it's definitely a good question as to which group they prefer. But also, while the league continues to publicly say there's "no timetable" on expansion, it's entirely likely that if someone steps forward with a great plan, it doesn't really matter which owner they like, they'll take the one with all their ducks in a row.

If I had to guess I think they will probably ask Krause to let Carter into his group as an investor and in some public facing role. The NFL did this with the new Browns. They knew they wanted Al Lerner to own the team but for PR reasons they had Bernie Kosar and Carmen Policy join his team. In that case they were afraid of PR backlash against Lerner because of his role in moving the old Browns and Kosar was a god in Cleveland. While Krause doesn't have a PR problem adding a visible minority will help in terms of marketing and PR. Of course I'm speculating here.

 

[dj4aces]

If I had to guess I think they will probably ask Krause to let Carter into his group as an investor and in some public facing role.

That, honestly, might not be a bad idea. It all depends on how Krause and Carter both feel about that, but it would certainly be a diplomatic way of ending any doubt about which group comes out ahead, and it would also accelerate the timeline for metro Atlanta to receive a franchise, rather than waiting for Carter's group to even begin the process Krause's group has already finished, for all intents and purposes.

 

[RoyalAir]

If I had to guess I think they will probably ask Krause to let Carter into his group as an investor and in some public facing role. The NFL did this with the new Browns. They knew they wanted Al Lerner to own the team but for PR reasons they had Bernie Kosar and Carmen Policy join his team. In that case they were afraid of PR backlash against Lerner because of his role in moving the old Browns and Kosar was a god in Cleveland. While Krause doesn't have a PR problem adding a visible minority will help in terms of marketing and PR. Of course I'm speculating here.

There's a lot of victory with that specific plan. NHL gets the former player with roots in the area as a face owner, and Krause gets the credit for the sheer amount of legwork he did to get to this point.

If Krause and Carter can play well in the sandbox, everyone wins. I'd rather have *one* committed guy than a consortium of guys skeptical of each other.

We Atlantans know better than most, too many owners who don't get along is a recipe for disaster.

 

[RoyalAir]

Also, to clarify my post about New Orleans specifically, I'm not disparaging NO as a market, so much as I'm saying it's a wild card in comparison to ATL and HOU.

Hiyeva, as a lifelong suffering Falcons fan, I cannot legally say anything nice about New Orleans.

 

[dj4aces]

If Krause and Carter can play well in the sandbox, everyone wins. I'd rather have *one* committed guy than a consortium of guys skeptical of each other.

That's really the rub there. Yeah, people have assumptions about whether Krause and Carter could play nice in the sandbox, and I suppose that's not an entirely unearned perspective on Carter's part. However, I think the league would make for damn sure the group isn't structured in the same way as Atlanta Spirit, making that sort of scenario impossible. Carter could easily sell his share back to Krause and move on, if it really came down to it, as Krause would be the principal owner.

 

[aqib]

There's a lot of victory with that specific plan. NHL gets the former player with roots in the area as a face owner, and Krause gets the credit for the sheer amount of legwork he did to get to this point.

If Krause and Carter can play well in the sandbox, everyone wins. I'd rather have *one* committed guy than a consortium of guys skeptical of each other.

We Atlantans know better than most, too many owners who don't get along is a recipe for disaster.

These days it's almost always going to be a consortium. I view it as an arrangement along the lines of Magic Johnson with the Washington Commanders. Obviously, Josh Harris is THE owner, but Magic is part of the group and does some PR stuff.

 

[nhlfan79]

These days it's almost always going to be a consortium. I view it as an arrangement along the lines of Magic Johnson with the Washington Commanders. Obviously, Josh Harris is THE owner, but Magic is part of the group and does some PR stuff.

Fair point. Where it gets dangerous is where no particular person/faction has clear majority control. That was always the ASG danger. They were basically three separate groups, one with 40% control, and the other two with 30% control each. When the 40% guy walked away and the lawsuits started flying back and forth, the other two groups couldn't financially afford to run both teams and fund all of the litigation.

I'm certain the league will never approve any type of ownership structure like that ever again.

 

[aqib]

Probably won't last long, as more and more people enter the work force who were kids during COVID and become managers etc the WFH will gradually go away over the next 10-20 years

I sincerely doubt that the generation that grew up online will want to go to the office. It's more of a baby boomer thing or companies that have built a lot of offices and have tax incentives tied to hitting certain employment numbers (looking at you, Amazon).

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

It's interesting that there is more 'smoke' around Atlanta vs speculation around Houston.

 

[aqib]

Fair point. Where it gets dangerous is where no particular person/faction has clear majority control. That was always the ASG danger. They were basically three separate groups, one with 40% control, and the other two with 30% control each. When the 40% guy walked away and the lawsuits started flying back and forth, the other two groups couldn't financially afford to run both teams and fund all of the litigation.

I'm certain the league will never approve any type of ownership structure like that ever again.

Yeah, there will always be a controlling owner but I doubt there will be too many "sole" owners. Like everyone calls Ryan Smith the owner of the Jazz and Mammoth but Smith Entertainment Group has a lot of investors including Dwayne Wade..

 

[dj4aces]

It's interesting that there is more 'smoke' around Atlanta vs speculation around Houston.

It's possible there's just nothing to report with regard to Houston. It could also be a matter of the league telling Houston to be quiet, while giving Krause here in Atlanta the green light to speak freely.

At the end of the day, both cities will have a team, and I think that happens sooner rather than later. In a perfect world, both Houston and Atlanta are playing games by 2030.

 

[aqib]

It's possible there's just nothing to report with regard to Houston. It could also be a matter of the league telling Houston to be quiet, while giving Krause here in Atlanta the green light to speak freely.

At the end of the day, both cities will have a team, and I think that happens sooner rather than later. In a perfect world, both Houston and Atlanta are playing games by 2030.

I come back to why Houston wasn't the landing spot for the Coyotes. Utah wanted expansion, which would have given them more time to get the arena ready and the branding done. Houston's arena would have been ready faster and the Houston Aeros name would have only taken a transfer from Minnesota.

 

[Tawnos]

I come back to why Houston wasn't the landing spot for the Coyotes. Utah wanted expansion, which would have given them more time to get the arena ready and the branding done. Houston's arena would have been ready faster and the Houston Aeros name would have only taken a transfer from Minnesota.

I'm still convinced, with very little evidence, that this is about nothing more than what a potential owner says to the media and a bit of relationship maintenance. Fertitta made some comments that seemed a bit like negotiating through the media a little bit back... and then I think he let his relationship with the league fall away a little bit. Meanwhile, Smith never made any comments that could be perceived badly and was in fairly regular contact with the league. That's what the league loves to see from a potential owner.

Fertitta did come back into the picture right as the Coyotes to Utah saga was going on, but the train was too far down the track by then.

This, by the way, is a very different place than we saw previously. The league doesn't court anyone. The potential owner has to do the courting.

 

[KevFu]

I would argue the exact opposite. If anything, we will see more work from home type jobs. COVID merely illustrated to people that what they do really doesn't need to be done from an office building, but can be done from the comfort of their own home at the same efficiency level, if not more efficiently. Yes, even management folks are working from home, with only minimal time spent in the office.

The sooner companies realize things will never go back to the way they were, the better.

The other factor is that COVID made lots of companies realize just how dumb it is to be paying "Downtown real estate prices" for nothing more than the vanity of having a downtown HQ (or the fact that it's theoretically centrally located to the employees scattered around the area).

Also, to clarify my post about New Orleans specifically, I'm not disparaging NO as a market, so much as I'm saying it's a wild card in comparison to ATL and HOU.

Hiyeva, as a lifelong suffering Falcons fan, I cannot legally say anything nice about New Orleans.

as someone who loves NOLA, and lived there for a while, no one will be offended if you disparage it AS A HOCKEY MARKET.

I think hockey CAN work anywhere.... but wow would that be a massive project that's not worth the time/effort to make it work there. It's waaaaaaaay too tough a hill to climb.

If I was selling hockey in NOLA, the #1 thing I'd do is set up a team tent at Jazz Fest that was air conditioned and had like 20 seats facing a screen, and people were welcome to come in... but they had to watch us tell them about hockey.

And we'd compare NHL hits to Saints/LSU football hits. And Pelicans' cross-overs to stick-handling dekes. And I'd show Deion Sanders slap-fighting some guy's football helmet and then show some hockey fights (Explaining that fighting isn't "allowed," it's just a lesser penalty than other sports -- because they all have sticks we want them to drop if they're mad -- and there's a fight only every 4 games, it's not all fighting. But there's checking every game). Show them more hits.

And constantly remind them that a hockey arena is THIS COLD. ALL THE TIME. And then let them go back to Jazz Fest.

 

[Tawnos]

The other factor is that COVID made lots of companies realize just how dumb it is to be paying "Downtown real estate prices" for nothing more than the vanity of having a downtown HQ (or the fact that it's theoretically centrally located to the employees scattered around the area).




as someone who loves NOLA, and lived there for a while, no one will be offended if you disparage it AS A HOCKEY MARKET.

I think hockey CAN work anywhere.... but wow would that be a massive project that's not worth the time/effort to make it work there. It's waaaaaaaay too tough a hill to climb.

If I was selling hockey in NOLA, the #1 thing I'd do is set up a team tent at Jazz Fest that was air conditioned and had like 20 seats facing a screen, and people were welcome to come in... but they had to watch us tell them about hockey.

And we'd compare NHL hits to Saints/LSU football hits. And Pelicans' cross-overs to stick-handling dekes. And I'd show Deion Sanders slap-fighting some guy's football helmet and then show some hockey fights (Explaining that fighting isn't "allowed," it's just a lesser penalty than other sports -- because they all have sticks we want them to drop if they're mad -- and there's a fight only every 4 games, it's not all fighting. But there's checking every game). Show them more hits.

And constantly remind them that a hockey arena is THIS COLD. ALL THE TIME. And then let them go back to Jazz Fest.

Do it at French Quarter Fest too. Fewer tourists, more locals.

 

[dj4aces]

I come back to why Houston wasn't the landing spot for the Coyotes. Utah wanted expansion, which would have given them more time to get the arena ready and the branding done. Houston's arena would have been ready faster and the Houston Aeros name would have only taken a transfer from Minnesota.

Right. I think the league preferred a smaller town like SLC receive a relocation (even if they call it an expansion and put the Coyotes history in a vault), while demanding the big bucks from the big market. Which is fair, really.

The other question is whether Fertitta complaining about the price of an expansion franchise in the press was seen as something to walk away from him over. If the NHL is "In Living Color", Fertitta came across like Cheap Pete, and I don't think anyone was amused by that. That's why we later saw a story by Emily Kaplan about Friedkin and mention of a new arena possibly being favored by the NHL.

Just my impression, anyway.

 

[aqib]

Right. I think the league preferred a smaller town like SLC receive a relocation (even if they call it an expansion and put the Coyotes history in a vault), while demanding the big bucks from the big market. Which is fair, really.

The other question is whether Fertitta complaining about the price of an expansion franchise in the press was seen as something to walk away from him over. If the NHL is "In Living Color", Fertitta came across like Cheap Pete, and I don't think anyone was amused by that. That's why we later saw a story by Emily Kaplan about Friedkin and mention of a new arena possibly being favored by the NHL.

Just my impression, anyway.

So, I keep coming back to his refusal to entertain adding a team at prices lower than they are now. Had he been willing to pay the $650 million that Seattle did, I think the NHL probably would have given him a team back then, too, because they want to be in this market. Had he been willing to pay the $1.2 billion that Utah did he probably would have gotten the Coyotes. He probably would have gotten them cheaper earlier in the process.

 

[sneakytitz]

So, I keep coming back to his refusal to entertain adding a team at prices lower than they are now. Had he been willing to pay the $650 million that Seattle did, I think the NHL probably would have given him a team back then, too, because they want to be in this market. Had he been willing to pay the $1.2 billion that Utah did he probably would have gotten the Coyotes. He probably would have gotten them cheaper earlier in the process.

Keep in mind, he's done this before with the Rockets. Go too cheap during his first attempt at buying them. Could have owned them outright in the mid 90s for about $90 million. Lost the bid. Had to spend $2.2 billion to buy them 20 years later.

 

[aqib]

Keep in mind, he's done this before with the Rockets. Go too cheap during his first attempt at buying them. Could have owned them outright in the mid 90s for about $90 million. Lost the bid. Had to spend $2.2 billion to buy them 20 years later.

Yeah, I've mentioned that myself about 20 times by now. He bid $80 million, Alexander bid $85 million.

That's why I have doubts about Houston unless its someone building a new arena. However, Fridkin may jump into the bidding for the Trail Blazers (he had bid on the Celtics) so I don't know what that would do for his Houston NHL bid.

 

[dj4aces]

Yeah, I've mentioned that myself about 20 times by now. He bid $80 million, Alexander bid $85 million.

That's why I have doubts about Houston unless its someone building a new arena. However, Fridkin may jump into the bidding for the Trail Blazers (he had bid on the Celtics) so I don't know what that would do for his Houston NHL bid.

Taking the easiest stance on this, I'd say that Houston bid would become a Portland bid, and the fourth largest market would once again be left without a franchise unless Fertitta gets it through his thick skull that whining about the price tag isn't gonna get him what he wants.

 

[RoyalAir]

Taking the easiest stance on this, I'd say that Houston bid would become a Portland bid, and the fourth largest market would once again be left without a franchise unless Fertitta gets it through his thick skull that whining about the price tag isn't gonna get him what he wants.

Extracting value in a distressed asset is how Fertitta has been so successful.

But that ain't gonna play when the NHL has an exclusive price tag, and is desirous to protect franchise values.

If Krause had had the cash, or the wherewithal, or the Spirit willing to listen (I don't think they ever were, btw), he could have had Thrashers 1.0 for 250 million.