Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[AKL]

I know nothing has been made official yet, but I think about Atlanta Thrashers 2 and how excited I am for it at least 7 different times a day

 

[AintLifeGrand]

The Braves acquisition of the Pennant Park development is interesting

Cobb co chamber of commerce also just conducted a fact finding trip to SLC

Liberty media would be an ideal owner of The Thrashers- vastly superior to Vernon Krause , who I think has maybe a couple hundred mil and not billions required to own a team

The location just across the hwy from the Battery (and connected via pedestrian bridge) is ideal for almost all of Atlanta (esp Buckhead , midtown , west midtown , Sandy springs , East Cobb and Roswell people )

East Cobb/ Sandy Springs adjacent to the Pennant Park site currently has a rink - the only ITP rink in the city , plus is the spiritual home of Atlanta hockey as the location of the beloved Parkaire rink which had the best ice in the city , and was the practice facility of the Knights and Flames

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Liberty media would be an ideal owner of The Thrashers- vastly superior to Vernon Krause , who I think has maybe a couple hundred mil and not billions required to own a team

Liberty realistically only has the space for one major stick and ball sports property. You also forget that they control F1, and also the entirety of the cards for motorcycle racing as well now that they have bought into MotoGP and World Superbikes.

And as much as you might *think* they are an ideal partner, it's only a matter of time before they realize that there are noticeable ebbs and flows to sports team ownership, and compared to singular owners, a corporate board room is going to ask very publicly why they are dumping money into a product that is not drawing fans because of their own decisions, enacted by GM's (see the Braves currently) and demand that they divest.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Liberty realistically only has the space for one major stick and ball sports property. You also forget that they control F1, and also the entirety of the cards for motorcycle racing as well now that they have bought into MotoGP and World Superbikes.

And as much as you might *think* they are an ideal partner, it's only a matter of time before they realize that there are noticeable ebbs and flows to sports team ownership, and compared to singular owners, a corporate board room is going to ask very publicly why they are dumping money into a product that is not drawing fans because of their own decisions, enacted by GM's (see the Braves currently) and demand that they divest.

I am aware of their holdings in F1 and Moto GP- I think I know about Liberty media than you , As I am
An Atlantan and F1 fan

Liberty has also owned the Braves for like 20 years

 

[dj4aces]

The Braves acquisition of the Pennant Park development is interesting

Cobb co chamber of commerce also just conducted a fact finding trip to SLC

Liberty media would be an ideal owner of The Thrashers- vastly superior to Vernon Krause , who I think has maybe a couple hundred mil and not billions required to own a team

The location just across the hwy from the Battery (and connected via pedestrian bridge) is ideal for almost all of Atlanta (esp Buckhead , midtown , west midtown , Sandy springs , East Cobb and Roswell people )

East Cobb/ Sandy Springs adjacent to the Pennant Park site currently has a rink - the only ITP rink in the city , plus is the spiritual home of Atlanta hockey as the location of the beloved Parkaire rink which had the best ice in the city , and was the practice facility of the Knights and Flames

It's cool, for sure, if Liberty wants to add their name to the growing list of those who're interested in bringing the NHL back to metro Atlanta. But assuming that's their goal, this is like showing up to the party when the booze is gone, there's only crumbs in the snack bowls, and the guests are getting ready to leave. If they wanted to be a relevant name, they should've acted in or before 2023. Krause's plan is ready to present to the league, and it appears that parts of Carter's vision for NPM is starting to take shape.

The best thing Liberty can do, if they want to get involved, is help fund the construction of rinks around the metro area.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

It's cool, for sure, if Liberty wants to add their name to the growing list of those who're interested in bringing the NHL back to metro Atlanta. But assuming that's their goal, this is like showing up to the party when the booze is gone, there's only crumbs in the snack bowls, and the guests are getting ready to leave. If they wanted to be a relevant name, they should've acted in or before 2023. Krause's plan is ready to present to the league, and it appears that parts of Carter's vision for NPM is starting to take shape.

The best thing Liberty can do, if they want to get involved, is help fund the construction of rinks around the metro area.

It would be to force Krause to move the team to the cusp of the Perimeter

The team will fail in Forsythe county

 

[nhlfan79]

East Cobb/ Sandy Springs adjacent to the Pennant Park site currently has a rink - the only ITP rink in the city , plus is the spiritual home of Atlanta hockey as the location of the beloved Parkaire rink which had the best ice in the city , and was the practice facility of the Knights and Flames

Parkaire/The MIC most definitely had the worst (and undersized) ice in the city, and was not the practice facility for the Flames. They practiced at a rink called Iceland, which closed in the 1980s. It was right at the top of the hill just outside 285 on Cobb Parkway, a stone's throw from where Truist Park now sits.

 

[GreenHornet]

Parkaire/The MIC most definitely had the worst (and undersized) ice in the city, and was not the practice facility for the Flames. They practiced at a rink called Iceland, which closed in the 1980s. It was right at the top of the hill just outside 285 on Cobb Parkway, a stone's throw from where Truist Park now sits.

Indeed, the Flames practiced at Iceland for several years of their stay, though IIRC, they also used The Igloo on Roswell Road about a half-mile or so south of 285 for a time, as well.

And BTW, a bit of a history lesson for some of the younger folks, that stretch of U.S. 41 that is now called Cobb Parkway was referred to as Marietta Four-Lane Highway back in the day.

 

[dj4aces]

It would be to force Krause to move the team to the cusp of the Perimeter

The team will fail in Forsythe county

That sounds more like a wish than it does anything based in reality.

Liberty Media wouldn't get involved to force Krause or Carter to move the team ITP under the guise that it might fail in north Fulton or Forsyth. Liberty Media would get involved to own the team itself. Thus far, Liberty has shown zero interest -- be it publicly or rumored -- in owning a NHL franchise. So assuming this is them showing interest... what changed in their philosophy, and why wait til Krause is preparing to present the final draft of his vision to the NHL?

Also, remember that the league will absolutely conduct its own due diligence (if it hasn't already).

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Parkaire/The MIC most definitely had the worst (and undersized) ice in the city, and was not the practice facility for the Flames. They practiced at a rink called Iceland, which closed in the 1980s. It was right at the top of the hill just outside 285 on Cobb Parkway, a stone's throw from where Truist Park now sits.

In the mid 2000s ParkAire had the best ice without a doubt

 

[aqib]

The Braves acquisition of the Pennant Park development is interesting

Cobb co chamber of commerce also just conducted a fact finding trip to SLC

Liberty media would be an ideal owner of The Thrashers- vastly superior to Vernon Krause , who I think has maybe a couple hundred mil and not billions required to own a team

The location just across the hwy from the Battery (and connected via pedestrian bridge) is ideal for almost all of Atlanta (esp Buckhead , midtown , west midtown , Sandy springs , East Cobb and Roswell people )

East Cobb/ Sandy Springs adjacent to the Pennant Park site currently has a rink - the only ITP rink in the city , plus is the spiritual home of Atlanta hockey as the location of the beloved Parkaire rink which had the best ice in the city , and was the practice facility of the Knights and Flames

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Liberty Media spin off the Braves and the surrounding development? Don't they also own part of the Nuggets and Avalanche in some deal with Kroenke?

 

[nhlfan79]

IIRC, they also used The Igloo on Roswell Road about a half-mile or so south of 285 for a time, as well.

Oh wow, I had totally forgotten about The Igloo!

The Igloo: Buckhead's former ice rink - The Atlanta 100

In the early 1950s, the newly formed Atlanta Figure Skating Club was already a U.S. Figure Skating member, but its growing number of members were practicing in a wrestling arena garage.

theatlanta100.com

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

In the mid 2000s ParkAire had the best ice without a doubt

The MIC was awesome for nostalgia (older rink with bubble hockey) and location (I live about 10 minutes away) but the ice was awful. Entire leagues moved to the Cooler because of it.

 

[nhlfan79]

In the mid 2000s ParkAire had the best ice without a doubt

Yeah, respectfully agree to disagree on that one! I vividly remember them sometimes having to put orange traffic cones on the ice near the penalty boxes during games because they never edged the rink, so the ice sloped upwards in the last foot near the boards. Not to mention the gap where the ice didn't go all the way to the boards at all at the Zamboni door entrance. On a 50/50 race to the puck in that area, I always pulled up and let the other player try to fish it out of the dip.

 

[sneakytitz]

The Braves acquisition of the Pennant Park development is interesting

Cobb co chamber of commerce also just conducted a fact finding trip to SLC

Liberty media would be an ideal owner of The Thrashers- vastly superior to Vernon Krause , who I think has maybe a couple hundred mil and not billions required to own a team

The location just across the hwy from the Battery (and connected via pedestrian bridge) is ideal for almost all of Atlanta (esp Buckhead , midtown , west midtown , Sandy springs , East Cobb and Roswell people )

East Cobb/ Sandy Springs adjacent to the Pennant Park site currently has a rink - the only ITP rink in the city , plus is the spiritual home of Atlanta hockey as the location of the beloved Parkaire rink which had the best ice in the city , and was the practice facility of the Knights and Flames

Done, and still do, a lot of business in that office park, and others nearby, for many years. Very familiar with it. All that to say: they're not tearing down those buildings for an arena. That office park is a Class A cash cow, with occupancy rates averaging 80+% for the last 15 years. Liberty wants control over the parking, which should amount to between $4-8 million a year in revenue. The leases are icing on the cake, especially considering Rubenstein just sank $15 million into renovating every single one of those buildings.

 

[GreenHornet]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Liberty Media spin off the Braves and the surrounding development? Don't they also own part of the Nuggets and Avalanche in some deal with Kroenke?

I didn’t know that, but you are correct. You’ll have to scroll down a bit to get to this section in the link, but it appears Liberty Media has an approximate 7 percent stake in the Avs, Nuggets and Ball Arena.

Asset List

www.libertymedia.com

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Done, and still do, a lot of business in that office park, and others nearby, for many years. Very familiar with it. All that to say: they're not tearing down those buildings for an arena. That office park is a Class A cash cow, with occupancy rates averaging 80+% for the last 15 years. Liberty wants control over the parking, which should amount to between $4-8 million a year in revenue. The leases are icing on the cake, especially considering Rubenstein just sank $15 million into renovating every single one of those buildings.

Agree on it being a fantastic purchase, but it is in no way a cash cow. Rubenstein put some capital into it pre-pandemic, but not enough to make it a true class A. Net absorption over the past year is -20K and the vacancy is 30% and rising. These older buildings aren't attracting anyone.

Braves will likely let the leases expire (and negotiate some out of theirs) and turn it into a couple parking decks, multifamily and retail within the next 5 years.

 

[dj4aces]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Liberty Media spin off the Braves and the surrounding development? Don't they also own part of the Nuggets and Avalanche in some deal with Kroenke?

I had to look it up... and yeah, they do. 7%. They've got their hands in quite a few honey pots, really.

Asset List

www.libertymedia.com

 

[aqib]

I had to look it up... and yeah, they do. 7%. They've got their hands in quite a few honey pots, really.

Asset List

www.libertymedia.com

Weird question, was Liberty ever a contender to buy the Thrashers and/or Hawks when ASG was selling them?

 

[nhlfan79]

Weird question, was Liberty ever a contender to buy the Thrashers and/or Hawks when ASG was selling them?

Short answer, no.

Longer answer, the "and/or" in your question is doing a lot of work. ASG intentionally never offered the Thrashers and Hawks together. It's been covered a bazillion times, as you know. Only the Thrashers were for sale, with no stake in either the arena or Hawks. No sane person would buy just the hockey team alone without access to a corresponding cut of the arena revenue. Had there been a package deal available, there would've been a long line of interested buyers. We can only speculate as to whether Liberty would've been one of the interested.

For informational purposes, ASG acquired the Thrashers, Hawks, and arena from AOL/TW in 2005. Liberty Media bought the Braves in 2007, according to my Alexa. So, that's roughly the same time period. Of course, ASG wasn't the expected purchaser of the Hawks, Thrashers, and arena and only swooped in at the last minute under corrupt circumstances. David McDavid should have become their rightful owner in 2005 if there were any justice in the world. At the time of McDavid vs. ASG vs. AOL/TW, Liberty Media had given zero indication of wanting to own sports properties in Atlanta.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

The MIC was awesome for nostalgia (older rink with bubble hockey) and location (I live about 10 minutes away) but the ice was awful. Entire leagues moved to the Cooler because of it.

Maybe later 2000s

But it was thriving with great ice when I was growing up playing GAHA allstars , Rage, Jr Thrashers , High school hockey etc

Best venue for high school hockey as well… Walton would always pack the joint for home games

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Maybe later 2000s

But it was thriving with great ice when I was growing up playing GAHA allstars , Rage, Jr Thrashers , High school hockey etc

Best venue for high school hockey as well… Walton would always pack the joint for home games

I was most familiar with the rink from about 2003-2010. The ice was awful. Was really fun having it nearby though, even though my icetime was like...Tuesdays at midnight.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I have access to the story. The gist of it is that the Polo Fields were ruled out about two weeks ago, leaving the Soccer complex and Denmark Park as the two main options. The article seemed to indicate that the powers that be may be leaning towards the Soccer complex, but that it will remain in place until Forsyth Co. Parks and Rec can move forward with new multi-purpose fields for soccer, cricket and lacrosse at the Polo Fields location.

Oh, and there's THIS passage, FWIW.

"Though a community ice center could possibly be built without The Gathering being awarded an NHL team, McKee made clear: 'The plan is that it’s tied to the franchise.'"

Cricket? FFS. Lines up with what I see in the area (I'm 5min from the polo fields).

 

[aqib]

Short answer, no.

Longer answer, the "and/or" in your question is doing a lot of work. ASG intentionally never offered the Thrashers and Hawks together. It's been covered a bazillion times, as you know. Only the Thrashers were for sale, with no stake in either the arena or Hawks. No sane person would buy just the hockey team alone without access to a corresponding cut of the arena revenue. Had there been a package deal available, there would've been a long line of interested buyers. We can only speculate as to whether Liberty would've been one of the interested.

For informational purposes, ASG acquired the Thrashers, Hawks, and arena from AOL/TW in 2005. Liberty Media bought the Braves in 2007, according to my Alexa. So, that's roughly the same time period. Of course, ASG wasn't the expected purchaser of the Hawks, Thrashers, and arena and only swooped in at the last minute under corrupt circumstances. David McDavid should have become their rightful owner in 2005 if there were any justice in the world. At the time of McDavid vs. ASG vs. AOL/TW, Liberty Media had given zero indication of wanting to own sports properties in Atlanta.

I recall they were seeking an equity investment in the Hawks separate from selling the entire Thrashers.

Either way would buying the Thrashers and building an arena alongside Truist Park have made sense or is that location not good for an arena? (please note I come in peace with this question because I have only been to Atlanta once so I don't know the area well enough to know if Cobb County is a good spot for NHL).

 

[dj4aces]

I recall they were seeking an equity investment in the Hawks separate from selling the entire Thrashers.

Either way would buying the Thrashers and building an arena alongside Truist Park have made sense or is that location not good for an arena? (please note I come in peace with this question because I have only been to Atlanta once so I don't know the area well enough to know if Cobb County is a good spot for NHL).

If I recall, the area around Truist is built up, and it wouldn't be very feasible to do something like that now, but I'm not certain if it'd have been feasible around the time of the first sale (2004) or the second one (2011).

That said, Cobb would be fine for a team. The area around Truist is close to the city, while also being closer to the northwest suburbs/exurbs of Atlanta (Marietta, Kennesaw, Canton) where a large number of hockey fans do live. There's also infrastructure in the area, as Truist is near both I-285 (the ring road around Atlanta) and I-75.. The downside to that area is the distance from the majority of metro Atlanta's hockey fans, which are closer to the arena locations proposed by Krause and Carter alike.

While I don't think a team would fail in Alpharetta (be it the Fulton side of Forsyth side of the county line), one simply can't look at a map and tell me there aren't infrastructure challenges there that don't exist in the area around Truist.