Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[FlyguyOX]

While neither of you are wrong, don't underestimate the importance of marketing the sport, especially in communities that aren't within the 12mi radius on the map in the tweet posted a couple pages back. I live within that radius too, hear folks getting my attention when they see my Wings hat and/or shirts while out. but metro Atlanta isn't just Norcross, Duluth, Alpharetta, and Cumming.

The league returning here wouldn't just be about righting a wrong that occurred almost 14 years ago. It's about growth: Bringing in new business partners, bringing in new fans, increasing diversity... and in doing so, eventually increasing league revenue. This is what the league wants from Atlanta and Houston, and all of this is the NHL's long game.

You don't achieve any of that without marketing in places like Stockbridge, Douglasvile, and Covington. I've mentioned before growing up south of town and living there during the Thrashers era. While yes, the northside absolutely was and is hockey central in metro Atlanta, the Knights created an entire school of new hockey fans when a few players visited the middle school I was attending, talked to students, answered questions, and even explained to those who didn't know exactly what hockey is and why it's an amazing sport.

Don't underestimate the power of marketing. Watching my peers get excited about a sport many of them had never been exposed to was a thing of beauty, and has stuck with me. So while we'd all like to live in our little 12mi bubble, none of what the league wants from the market happens if all ownership does is live within that bubble.

Oh yeah I’ve got a knights mini stick from when my dad went to the games when I was a toddler

 

[aqib]

That was a big massive “if”.

Simple fact was at that time (2009) Glendale wasn’t going to fold. Westgate was just beginning to take shape and the city needed that arena and the Coyotes to drive traffic to it.

That story about TNSE being just “15 minutes away” was a fairytale of wishful thinking. Everyone here locally knew what the council was going to do for a week leading up to that vote.

Now ten years later the situation was the complete opposite. Glendale wanted the Coyotes to stay (if the team signed a long term lease), but with all the build out at Westgate and surrounding area they now could live without them.

I was referring to 2010 and 2011. I know Chipman's 10 minutes comment about the 2010 vote but in 2011 they were also queued up and pivoted to the Thrashers when the vote passed.

Have a look at attendance in the early 2000's. Bruins near the bottom for years.

And again, you're just proving my point. The list of excuses just grows and grows. I'll add small market to a list of things that makes it difficult to sell out game after game. More proof you can't just put a team anywhere and sell out forever. It doesn't happen.

That's why no one is saying to put a team in Red Deer, Halifax, or Victoria BC. When you have the population and the economy the marketing shouldn't be so complicated.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

That's why no one is saying to put a team in Red Deer, Halifax, or Victoria BC. When you have the population and the economy the marketing shouldn't be so complicated.

It's just another factor that leads to empty seats...in every market. Every team has season ticket package deals, partnerships with youth hockey, radio spots, etc... It's all marketing and necessary in every market. Even new markets like Seattle, Vegas, and Salt Lake had successful marketing. Just like Winnipeg did 15 years ago.

In that Winnipeg attendance thread last year, one of the reasons cited for the lower attendance was that their ticket reps stopped caring about renewals and ticket sales to the diehards. If that's not an example of needed marketing, I don't know what is.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Well they’ll do better than any Atlanta team for fans, who didn’t support their teams.

nearly every team has had attendance issues.

do you not recall Chicagos attendance before their resurgence in the 2010s?

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Who’s they? A ton of teams had periods of time fan attendance was low. You’ll need to be more specific

Hamilton and QC I'd gather

 

[dj4aces]

nearly every team has had attendance issues.

do you not recall Chicagos attendance before their resurgence in the 2010s?

The Blackhawks example is always a fun one. There were nights in the early-mid 2000s in Chicago where the AHL's Wolves had higher attendance. The reason, of course, is that fans revolted against ol' Dollar Bill Wirtz. Those were dark times in Chicago.

All this to say, I don't blame any fan for voting with their wallets when faced with bad ownership.

There are passionate fans in every market. It's easy for folks to look at the city a team is located and posit an explanation based on said location. Rarely does one bother to look at what else is happening with the franchise to understand why fans stopped showing up.

 

[Salsero1]

The Blackhawks example is always a fun one. There were nights in the early-mid 2000s in Chicago where the AHL's Wolves had higher attendance. The reason, of course, is that fans revolted against ol' Dollar Bill Wirtz. Those were dark times in Chicago.

All this to say, I don't blame any fan for voting with their wallets when faced with bad ownership.

There are passionate fans in every market. It's easy for folks to look at the city a team is located and posit an explanation based on said location. Rarely does one bother to look at what else is happening with the franchise to understand why fans stopped showing up.

People will absolutely do that, but only if they approve of the location. If they don't, then it's the location itself (or rather the people who live there) that is blamed.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

nearly every team has had attendance issues.

do you not recall Chicagos attendance before their resurgence in the 2010s?

There's a difference between boycotting bad ownership and never showing up in the first place. The Thrashers immediately lost 4k a night from their 1st season to just their 3rd (17k in inaugural season to 13k in 2001-02) despite the arrival of young stars like Heatley, Kovalchuk and Savard.

Sorry not sorry, Atlanta is not a good pro sports town, UGA is too much of a competitor for eyeballs. They only show up at the best of times.

 

[FlyguyOX]

There's a difference between boycotting bad ownership and never showing up in the first place. The Thrashers immediately lost 4k a night from their 1st season to just their 3rd (17k in inaugural season to 13k in 2001-02) despite the arrival of young stars like Heatley, Kovalchuk and Savard.

Sorry not sorry, Atlanta is not a good pro sports town, UGA is too much of a competitor for eyeballs. They only show up at the best of times.

Downtown Atlanta* I believe is the clarification needed in your statement. I also seem to recall bad economic times in 2000-2003. Awfully convenient to leave out macro economic context.

The braves do fantastic. ATL UTD did fantastic before bad FO ruined what they had going. And ATL UTD did great partially because it was a new team that all the transients could truly consider "their" team since they were here when it was created.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

There's a difference between boycotting bad ownership and never showing up in the first place. The Thrashers immediately lost 4k a night from their 1st season to just their 3rd (17k in inaugural season to 13k in 2001-02) despite the arrival of young stars like Heatley, Kovalchuk and Savard.

Sorry not sorry, Atlanta is not a good pro sports town, UGA is too much of a competitor for eyeballs. They only show up at the best of times.

Braves top-5 in attendance, MLS breaks NA attendance records (US soccer just moved their HQ here), Hawks near 100% despite being garbage, Falcons middle of the road attendance, home to College Football HOF, and yes, UGA packed. Yeah...terrible sports town.

It's weird you mention 2000-2004 attendance as the Thrashers and Bruins had similar attendance those years, ha.

 

[Stephen]

Atlanta Hat Tricks.

 

[dj4aces]

There's a difference between boycotting bad ownership and never showing up in the first place. The Thrashers immediately lost 4k a night from their 1st season to just their 3rd (17k in inaugural season to 13k in 2001-02) despite the arrival of young stars like Heatley, Kovalchuk and Savard.

Sorry not sorry, Atlanta is not a good pro sports town, UGA is too much of a competitor for eyeballs. They only show up at the best of times.

Thank you for stepping in and proving my point.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

There's a difference between boycotting bad ownership and never showing up in the first place.

There is no difference in fanbases refusing to support two bad products. GTFOH.

 

[TheLegend]

I was referring to 2010 and 2011. I know Chipman's 10 minutes comment about the 2010 vote but in 2011 they were also queued up and pivoted to the Thrashers when the vote passed.

2011 wasn’t any different. It was the same city council. IIRC that vote was 6-1. Although there were members beginning to question whether they were going to go along with it much further. Joyce Clark looked Bettman squarely in the eye telling him she would not go for it a third time.

 

[sneakytitz]

ATL UTD did fantastic before bad FO ruined what they had going.

ATL UTD still does fantastic. They've lead the league in attendance, BY FAR, since they entered the league. Generally speaking, they outsell number 2 in attendance by over 11,000 a game. Sometimes, minus the COVID season, it is even more.

 

[FlyguyOX]

ATL UTD still does fantastic. They've lead the league in attendance, BY FAR, since they entered the league. Generally speaking, they outsell number 2 in attendance by over 11,000 a game. Sometimes, minus the COVID season, it is even more.

Because we open up the stadium a few times a year to pack it out to 50K+. That skews the average.

I was a founding member with season tickets from the start until COVID hit when I decided to cancel. Terrible signings, terrible managers, terrible soccer to watch, terrible drive to/from downtown for mid-week games (not the FO fault, just an aside).

 

[BMN]

Because we open up the stadium a few times a year to pack it out to 50K+. That skews the average.

I was a founding member with season tickets from the start until COVID hit when I decided to cancel. Terrible signings, terrible managers, terrible soccer to watch, terrible drive to/from downtown for mid-week games (not the FO fault, just an aside).

ATLUTD was bound to come down from their "first five years" high (not that you're wrong about their horrible management of the team since Josef messed up the PK vs. Toronto FC over five years ago). While it is true that the opened-up games skew Atlanta's average, they still outdraw any other given MLS team most nights. If you told a MLS owner in 2013 about the numbers AUFC gets in 2024, they'd have been thrilled.

Of course, I've gone over many many times why comparing ATLUTD to a potential ATL 3.0 NHL team is not remotely apples & oranges but rather than type it all over again, I'll merely link the dissertation I posted about it four years ago...which still applies now.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

There's a difference between boycotting bad ownership and never showing up in the first place. The Thrashers immediately lost 4k a night from their 1st season to just their 3rd (17k in inaugural season to 13k in 2001-02) despite the arrival of young stars like Heatley, Kovalchuk and Savard.

Sorry not sorry, Atlanta is not a good pro sports town, UGA is too much of a competitor for eyeballs. They only show up at the best of times.

It’s the towns fault for the GM and co, for not supplying the team with competitive talent?

Yikes!

Braves top-5 in attendance, MLS breaks NA attendance records (US soccer just moved their HQ here), Hawks near 100% despite being garbage, Falcons middle of the road attendance, home to College Football HOF, and yes, UGA packed. Yeah...terrible sports town.

It's weird you mention 2000-2004 attendance as the Thrashers and Bruins had similar attendance those years, ha.

Next excuse you’ll hear is that nobody likes hockey down there..

 

[sneakytitz]

Because we open up the stadium a few times a year to pack it out to 50K+. That skews the average.

I was a founding member with season tickets from the start until COVID hit when I decided to cancel. Terrible signings, terrible managers, terrible soccer to watch, terrible drive to/from downtown for mid-week games (not the FO fault, just an aside).

Opening it or not, people still have to buy tickets.

 

[Hasbro]

That looks a long way out from Atlanta itself. Even the Braces suburban ballpark is within the beltway.

Atlanta is and hour’s drive from Atlanta.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Opening it or not, people still have to buy tickets.

Oh yeah I’m still proud of the teams attendance

 

[nhlfan79]

United will have 60,000+ this coming Saturday for the opener.

 

[aqib]

It's just another factor that leads to empty seats...in every market. Every team has season ticket package deals, partnerships with youth hockey, radio spots, etc... It's all marketing and necessary in every market. Even new markets like Seattle, Vegas, and Salt Lake had successful marketing. Just like Winnipeg did 15 years ago.

In that Winnipeg attendance thread last year, one of the reasons cited for the lower attendance was that their ticket reps stopped caring about renewals and ticket sales to the diehards. If that's not an example of needed marketing, I don't know what is.

Like I said every team has a marketing/community outreach department. Its just the extent to which Atlanta and other "non-traditional" market supporters make it out as if they need to be catered to in order to embrace the sport while fans in other markets are willing to walk on broken glass to get a team.

Its the same thing when they talk about how certain cities have too many other things to do and that's why fans don't show up. EVERY city big enough to have a pro sports team has plenty of things to do.

Lets say NY has a day in April where the Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Islanders, Devils, and Nets are all at home and all of them sold out. That means 160K people are at sporting events that day. Do you think the other 19+ million people are stuck at home?

Even in smaller cities. There is plenty to do if you're not going to a game. When I lived in Cleveland, I was never home on a Friday and Saturday night.

 

[Tawnos]

Like I said every team has a marketing/community outreach department. Its just the extent to which Atlanta and other "non-traditional" market supporters make it out as if they need to be catered to in order to embrace the sport while fans in other markets are willing to walk on broken glass to get a team.

Its the same thing when they talk about how certain cities have too many other things to do and that's why fans don't show up. EVERY city big enough to have a pro sports team has plenty of things to do.

Lets say NY has a day in April where the Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Islanders, Devils, and Nets are all at home and all of them sold out. That means 160K people are at sporting events that day. Do you think the other 19+ million people are stuck at home?

Even in smaller cities. There is plenty to do if you're not going to a game. When I lived in Cleveland, I was never home on a Friday and Saturday night.

I don't think this post reflects anything resembling reality when it comes to people's attitudes.

 

[Salsero1]

Like I said every team has a marketing/community outreach department. Its just the extent to which Atlanta and other "non-traditional" market supporters make it out as if they need to be catered to in order to embrace the sport while fans in other markets are willing to walk on broken glass to get a team.

Its the same thing when they talk about how certain cities have too many other things to do and that's why fans don't show up. EVERY city big enough to have a pro sports team has plenty of things to do.

Lets say NY has a day in April where the Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Islanders, Devils, and Nets are all at home and all of them sold out. That means 160K people are at sporting events that day. Do you think the other 19+ million people are stuck at home?

Even in smaller cities. There is plenty to do if you're not going to a game. When I lived in Cleveland, I was never home on a Friday and Saturday night.

What did "non-traditional" markets ever do to you? Seriously I've been here for years and you're consistently one of the most virulent "south is bad" people here. This attitude of yours makes me sad. Hockey is a fantastic game and this elitism and exclusion crap is such a waste of time and energy. People here in NC or in Atlanta might not experience it exactly like someone in Hamilton but that doesn't make them lesser or unworthy.

Honestly, I'd love for you to do some traveling and actually attend games here and in other sunbelt markets and talk to the fans, or even read some of your own posts and try to empathize with fans in Atlanta and elsewhere.

As much as your posts often offend me, I can't help but feel sorry for you.