Potential 2020 World Cup: a changing of the guard?

[Merya]

Noone in Europe cares one bit about the "world cup". Next Olympics players will go, whether or not with permission.
ps. only barely million in NA either?

 

[Nino33]

Switzerland winning the 2020 World Cup would be A LOT less surprising than USA's gold in Lake Placid.

Interestingly enough the US also won it in 1960, and came in 2nd in 1972; it's not like it had never happened before, while a 7th/8th place team being in the final/winning a best-on-best has thus far never happened before

 

[Jahara]

Why not? Team Eastern and Western Conference would raise the quality and may spread the interest in both conferences in the NHL.

Yeah, that is a good way of making the Stanley Cup something of a joke.

If the people of Slovenia wants to watch Kopitar play for another team than team Slovenia, all they have to do is watch the Kings. They have 82 chances to do that every season.

And with Team Europe they would get at least 3 more chances, but on the international stage instead of a dull regular season.

 

[Jon Riley]

Yeah, that is a good way of making the Stanley Cup something of a joke.

Aaaaaand there you have it.

 

[Elvs]

Interestingly enough the US also won it in 1960, and came in 2nd in 1972; it's not like it had never happened before, while a 7th/8th place team being in the final/winning a best-on-best has thus far never happened before

The 1960 Olympics has no bearing on the miracle in Lake Placid. That would be the Soviet Union's 2nd Olympic tournament ever, and their era of dominance didn't start until 1963. From there, up until Lake Placid, they had won 14 of 17 World Championships. Czechoslovakia won the only other 3 and USA was never even a medalist.

And after Soviets golden era started in 1963, they won the Olympics in 1964, 1968, 1972 an 1976. In other words every time up until Lake Placid. In the 1972 Olympics you speak of, the Soviets crushed USA 7-2. After their 1960 Olympic bronze, the Soviets had gone 27-1-1 in Olympic games with a 175-44 goal differential up until Miracle on ice happened.

Meanwhile, Switzerland in their last two best on best matchups (2010 and 2014 Olympics) against Canada:

Switzerland 1-0-1-0 = 4 points
Canada 0-1-0-1 = 2 points

Total score: Switzerland 4, Canada 3

 

[Jahara]

Aaaaaand there you have it.

You can't compare a Stanley Cup with the World Cup by making that kind of silly comparison. Stanley Cup has a good format and it has worked fine for a long time. World Cup tried to change things to improve the tournament.

 

[JackSlater]

You can't compare a Stanley Cup with the World Cup by making that kind of silly comparison. Stanley Cup has a good format and it has worked fine for a long time. World Cup tried to change things to improve the tournament.

The NHL has changed the playoff format several times in attempts to improve the playoffs, but fortunately it never did something nearly as stupid as it did with the 2016 world cup. The 2016 world cup's idiotic format is no less idiotic than the NHL making a team of non-playoff players from the East and a team of 23 and under players from the West and dropping them into the playoffs in the eighth seeds. Such a format would certainly ensure that a greater number of star players played and would likely make the eighth seed more competitive. It would also ensure that the playoffs were a joke.

 

[Nino33]

Meanwhile, Switzerland in their last two best on best matchups (2010 and 2014 Olympics) against Canada:

Switzerland 1-0-1-0 = 4 points
Canada 0-1-0-1 = 2 points

Total score: Switzerland 4, Canada 3

My whole point has been about at least reaching the final, which Canada did both times (and won) and Switzerland did not do, and has never done

Why are you pointing to a group game upset over a top team as proof of being able to reach/win a final? What do you think you're proving? I never said a 7th/8th ranked team couldn't win a game/upset a top team

Why focus just on Switzerland's play against Canada? Norway lost to the Swiss in OT in 2010, and Belarus took them to a shootout in the playoff game in 2010, and in 2014 the Swiss lost to Belarus in the playoff game - does that mean Norway and Belarus should be guaranteed a spot in a best-on-best?

Poland beat the USSR 6-4 in the Worlds in 1976 two months after losing 16-1 in the Olympics - single game upsets happen, they don't prove a team is capable of winning it all IMO

And you gotta draw the line somewhere, even the Worlds/Olympics have a cut off (so I don't see why the idea of a top 6-8 best-on-best is so bothersome to some...if a team is in the top 6-8 ranking they'd be in the tournament)

 

[Jahara]

The NHL has changed the playoff format several times in attempts to improve the playoffs, but fortunately it never did something nearly as stupid as it did with the 2016 world cup. The 2016 world cup's idiotic format is no less idiotic than the NHL making a team of non-playoff players from the East and a team of 23 and under players from the West and dropping them into the playoffs in the eighth seeds. Such a format would certainly ensure that a greater number of star players played and would likely make the eighth seed more competitive. It would also ensure that the playoffs were a joke.

If the 2016 format was stupid, how about the 2004 format? A crappy Germany and everyone advancing to the QF. Doing a mixed East and West team DURING THE SEASON is so much nonsense that it shouldn't even be compared to anything, simple since it won't happen.

 

[JackSlater]

If the 2016 format was stupid, how about the 2004 format? A crappy Germany and everyone advancing to the QF. Doing a mixed East and West team DURING THE SEASON is so much nonsense that it shouldn't even be compared to anything, simple since it won't happen.

The 2004 format was inherently better because it was ostensibly an international tournament that actually featured only international teams, with no limitations placed on any of the teams. I prefer the format of the 1996 World Cup but the formats of any other tournament don't make the 2016 world cup better or worse. I also think that most people would have thought that the gimmick teams of the 2016 world cup were so nonsensical that they wouldn't happen, but unfortunately they did. The claims used to defend those teams could be used to defend the stupid idea that the NHL apply the same gimmicks to its own playoffs - it's ridiculous and that is the point.

 

[Big Phil]

Meanwhile, Switzerland in their last two best on best matchups (2010 and 2014 Olympics) against Canada:

Switzerland 1-0-1-0 = 4 points
Canada 0-1-0-1 = 2 points

Total score: Switzerland 4, Canada 3

Just wondering, when did the Swiss beat us in 2010 and 2014? They lost in a shootout to Canada (I have no idea how it even got to that they were outshot 47-23) in 2010 and didn't play them in 2014. Are you thinking about the 2006 Olympics where they won 2-0 in the round robin? They were outshot 49-18 that game but Paul Dipietro for whatever reason was on the Swiss team and got both goals.

I can see a time where Canada can lose to a much weaker team that has no business beating them in the round robin because it happened in 2006 as we saw. But in all honesty, of all the international best on best tournaments there has never been a time Canada has lost in a do-or-die game to a team like that.

1981 (final game) - 8-1 loss to the Soviets
1996 (final) - Lost to USA lost twice in the final
1998 (semis) - Lost to Czechs in a shootout
2006 (quarters) - Lost to Russia 2-0

That's it. Those are Canada's losses in elimination games. Only in 2006 did the other team not win the tournament that they lost to. There have been some close calls in some games where Canada didn't even let the puck leave the Latvian end in 2014 but took a long time to snap a 1-1 tie, but I just couldn't imagine them losing that game. Even when the score was tied 1-1 in the 3rd period I still thought they'd win 6-1. Anyway, Canada has never had a Sweden/Belarus moment like that.

 

[Elvs]

Just wondering, when did the Swiss beat us in 2010 and 2014? They lost in a shootout to Canada (I have no idea how it even got to that they were outshot 47-23) in 2010 and didn't play them in 2014. Are you thinking about the 2006 Olympics where they won 2-0 in the round robin? They were outshot 49-18 that game but Paul Dipietro for whatever reason was on the Swiss team and got both goals.

I can see a time where Canada can lose to a much weaker team that has no business beating them in the round robin because it happened in 2006 as we saw. But in all honesty, of all the international best on best tournaments there has never been a time Canada has lost in a do-or-die game to a team like that.

1981 (final game) - 8-1 loss to the Soviets
1996 (final) - Lost to USA lost twice in the final
1998 (semis) - Lost to Czechs in a shootout
2006 (quarters) - Lost to Russia 2-0

That's it. Those are Canada's losses in elimination games. Only in 2006 did the other team not win the tournament that they lost to. There have been some close calls in some games where Canada didn't even let the puck leave the Latvian end in 2014 but took a long time to snap a 1-1 tie, but I just couldn't imagine them losing that game. Even when the score was tied 1-1 in the 3rd period I still thought they'd win 6-1. Anyway, Canada has never had a Sweden/Belarus moment like that.

Yes, sorry, it's supposed to say 2006 and 2010. They didn't meat eachother in 2014, and thus 2006 and 2010 are the two most recent best-on-best matchups between the two countries. Not to mention Switzerland got better since, as they've added Fiala, Josi, Andrighetto, Hischier, Mueller, Niederreiter and Meier. Look at those 2006 and 2010 teams and there's no wonder they were outshot the way they were.

Anyway, in no way I am trying to say that Switzerland > Canada, that would obviously be silly. I'm just pointing out that Switzerland beating the current power house (Canada) is a smaller upset than the U.S. beating the Soviets in 1980. Nino bringing up the fact that Switzerland never beat Canada in an elimination game at the Olympics is a moot point. The U.S. team didn't eliminate the Soviets either. The Olympics didn't have playoffs back then (at least not under it's current format).

 

[Big Phil]

Anyway, in no way I am trying to say that Switzerland > Canada, that would obviously be silly. I'm just pointing out that Switzerland beating the current power house (Canada) is a smaller upset than the U.S. beating the Soviets in 1980. Nino bringing up the fact that Switzerland never beat Canada in an elimination game at the Olympics is a moot point. The U.S. team didn't eliminate the Soviets either. The Olympics didn't have playoffs back then.

It might have been on the same level if Switzerland had knocked Canada out in the elimination game, but not a round robin game. Canada won the 2002 Olympics and the 2004 World Cup. It would be a little bit like the way the Soviets were looked at in 1980 after destroying the NHL All-Stars in 1979. Yeah that is still strange to think that U.S. technically didn't eliminate the Soviets in 1980 with that win, however it set them up for the gold vs. Finland.

On a side note I never swore so much while watching a game as I did during the Swiss/Canada game in 2006. I had a nickname for several Canadian players as I was watching that game. It wasn't my proudest moment.

 

[BigBadBoar]

I hope the tournament will take place, I don't care so much about the format, be it with 8 or 10 teams, but please, without that stupid gimmick mixed team. This spoiled the whole 2016 WC for me. International tournament should be for national teams. I don't care about that Canada will beat Germany perhaps 19 times of 20 matches. In football (soccer), France will also beat, say, Costa Rica 19 times of 20 matches, and still the World Cup is exciting - also because it is kind of exciting to see these "smaller" teams trying to do the best and challenge the world's brightest stars with their passionate play. I remember Latvia playing such a fearless game vs. Canada at the 2014 Winter Olympics, and I was definitely excited about that game, not because I would not like Canada, but because one could really feel the enthusiasm of the Latvian guys, fighting and knowing that they play maybe the biggest game of the careers, and the enthusiasm of their fans as well. This is one of the things which make international hockey so exciting for me.

 

[Elvs]

It might have been on the same level if Switzerland had knocked Canada out in the elimination game, but not a round robin game. Canada won the 2002 Olympics and the 2004 World Cup. It would be a little bit like the way the Soviets were looked at in 1980 after destroying the NHL All-Stars in 1979. Yeah that is still strange to think that U.S. technically didn't eliminate the Soviets in 1980 with that win, however it set them up for the gold vs. Finland.

On a side note I never swore so much while watching a game as I did during the Swiss/Canada game in 2006. I had a nickname for several Canadian players as I was watching that game. It wasn't my proudest moment.

Not comparing the 2006 or 2010 Switzerland teams. I'm talking 2020 World Cup. A team that has Andrighetto, Niederreiter, Fiala, Josi, Mueller, Hischier, Meier and Baertschi winning the 2020 World Cup would be less of an upset than what happened in Lake Placid.

 

[Big Phil]

Not comparing the 2006 or 2010 Switzerland teams. I'm talking 2020 World Cup. A team that has Andrighetto, Niederreiter, Fiala, Josi, Mueller, Hischier, Meier and Baertschi winning the 2020 World Cup would be less of an upset than what happened in Lake Placid.

Yeah probably, because they are all at least in the NHL while the U.S. team in 1980 wasn't. But man, if Canada loses an elimination game to the Swiss that would still be a black mark that would never be forgotten. It would be "our" Miracle on Ice, but reversed.

 

[Pominville Knows]

Will Sweden have marginally the best D? It is a bonus that it is in 2020 and not now, becouse i don't know that Dahlin would make it right now, especially becouse we want him on the right side even though he shoots left.

Hedman-Karlsson
Ekman Larsson-Klingberg
Ekholm-Dahlin
Lindholm/Klefbom
​

When it comes to forwards i won't venture to ask the same thing, but our new heap really have blossomed these two last seasons as they are approaching peak ages, perhaps golden 2020.