Post Training Camp Roster Discussion

[kingsholygrail]

Same ol' Garon.

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[scryan]

It'd be different if it was like you tried to describe in your last paragraph. The problem I have is that after his first year, everyone loved him. Him, King, and Carter marked a change in our offense and the forwards started to pick it up. But then one bad year later and they all are calling for his head. It wasn't a case of his fans supporting him the first year and then his haters booing in the second. People completely changed their opinions on him as a player off of one HALF of a bad season.

Its a forum man. Anyone can come and anyone does... You will always get a bit of ridiculousness.

It is like I describe.... plus some people who just account for extra noise. But it is very easy to group "people I don't remember" in with "people I don't remember", even though they are completely different. So when "people you don't remember" disagree with "people you don't remember"... thats not internal conflict, thats just that there are tons of opinions here and who ever's opinion is "winning" gets to talk the most...
Also people are totally fickle

 

[etherialone]

I'm far from blindly supporting him. But to me, to have nearly an entire fan base want a player to be traded after one bad year and while that player is still young and can turn it around is crazy. I GET that he had a bad year. I'm far from denying that. But one bad year justifies a trade? If it's a highly paid player who doesn't fit, then maybe I get it. But Nolan has all the tools we need to fit our system and be an effective player on the 4th line. And we trade that after one bad year?

It'd be different if it was like you tried to describe in your last paragraph. The problem I have is that after his first year, everyone loved him. Him, King, and Carter marked a change in our offense and the forwards started to pick it up. But then one bad year later and they all are calling for his head. It wasn't a case of his fans supporting him the first year and then his haters booing in the second. People completely changed their opinions on him as a player off of one HALF of a bad season.

What's funny to me is that I didn't think that Nolan had that bad of a sophomore season all things considered. He plays hard and to me last season seemed more like he was trying too hard at times and that is to be expected with young players. Nolan is a solid bottom 6er and will be for a few more years still no doubt about it.

Frattin is having a very good camp for certain. He is playing with two of the best forwards in the game and this as far as games played goes is still early on in his first season. He is having a hard time with picking up our system and that shows from time to time but that is to be expected. He is improving every game and has even shown brief glimpses of his game and that is a great sign this early into his time with us.

Nolan and Frattin came to the club worked hard and will have a pretty good time with us. I too am happy to see him fitting in.

TT is showing us that you just can't snap your fingers and make a talented player play anywhere on the ice. I am happy that it looks like he will head back to MCH to pick his game back up and hopefully be with the big club asap.

Pearson as I you and others have been saying is not only NHL ready but he might be a borderline special player when he makes the jump. Just a solid player.

Kopi is having a great pre season.


Overall we look to be in great shape heading into the season.

 

[CNS]

What's funny to me is that I didn't think that Nolan had that bad of a sophomore season all things considered. He plays hard and to me last season seemed more like he was trying too hard at times and that is to be expected with young players. Nolan is a solid bottom 6er and will be for a few more years still no doubt about it.

And I feel the same way. I didn't think it was great. It wasn't good. He was below average for sure. You hit it on the head with the playing too hard thing. I think the big thing I've noticed this preseason so far is him simplifying his game. I was coached by a long time NHLer as a kid who used to tell my brother to stop thinking because on the ice he always overthought. I think that type of thing is what can bring Jordan back to being what we know he can be. Stop trying to do all these things. Go out there and play the game naturally. Play how you know how to play. And I think he's doing that. It's great to see.

And I totally agree on all your other points I cut out. You and I seem to see eye to eye a lot.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I swear, there was probably
10 to 15 of us in section 16 that gave off a very audible "oh, ****" when Mitchell blocked that shot and started limping. Scary.

You know what, though, Lombardi put the defense in a position in which if Mitchell goes down we're looking pretty thin back there. I still don't think everyone really grasps how different the D will look without Scuderi back there this year. It's sink or swim with Mitchell's shotty health this year. Regher and Greene are sort of redundant, big and physical but slow and prone to exposure. Doughty and Voynov are studs, sure, and Martinez is looking good. Past that the depth is pretty abysmal.

Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Dean go hard after a top four defenseman at the deadline this year.

 

[CanadianKingsFan14]

So who is gonna get cut today?
I think Shultz will be waived and Toffoli, Pearson, and Vey will be sent to Manchester.
So they team will look like this:

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Frattin-Richards-Carter
Clifford-Stoll-Lewis
Carcillo-Fraser-Nolan
King

Doughty-Reghr
Mithell-Voynov
Greene-Martinez
Muzzin
Ellerby

Quick
Scrivens

 

[SuperAlmeida]

Do you think that Mitchell will play on the opening night? Sutter said earlier this week that he had a long waty to go...!

 

[KopitarFAN]

Do you think that Mitchell will play on the opening night? Sutter said earlier this week that he had a long waty to go...!

I can't imagine he would play all the minutes he did in the last 4 preseason games if he wasn't gonna play opening night.

 

[42]

Is Muzzin the odd man out then? If so, I don't like it. He and Doughty play well together and his offensive game is better than anyone but Doughty or Voynov.

 

[Jason Lewis]

Is Muzzin the odd man out then? If so, I don't like it. He and Doughty play well together and his offensive game is better than anyone but Doughty or Voynov.

He and Martinez will fight for time on the 3rd pairing. Go with the hot hand. Ellerby will be the replacement for Mitchell considering he will not be able to really play as much as he would like in his first season back.

I highly doubt we keep Schultz over Ellerby but stranger things have happened.

 

[Butch 19]

Is Muzzin the odd man out then? If so, I don't like it. He and Doughty play well together and his offensive game is better than anyone but Doughty or Voynov.

^^^^ agree with this.

I like what Muzzin brings to the offense.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Right now it looks like the 3rd paring is going to be Martinez-Greene. In my opnion at the peak of both Martinez's and Muzzin's potential Martinez will hold greater value. So in the long run I'm hoping Martinez solidifies the 6th spot. If I was Dean I would waive Shultz, keep Ellerby just in case Greene/Regher/Mitchell goes down and I would trade Muzzin for a 2nd/3rd. If Mitchell doesnt work out like we hope and one of our other Dmen can do the job I can see him making a trade for a guy like Fistric, Boychuk, B. Stuart, etc.

^^^^ agree with this.

I like what Muzzin brings to the offense.

 

[CNS]

Schultz waived. Bye idiot. Terrible signing. Thankfully it's already fixed.

 

[King RAZZ]

Just think of all the cap money we gained if someone picks Schultz up...

 

[HYORI 1963]

Is Muzzin the odd man out then? If so, I don't like it. He and Doughty play well together and his offensive game is better than anyone but Doughty or Voynov.

Even if he were healthy, RR would have been paired with DD, not Muzzin. Having said that he would have been an ideal pairing with DD on the PP.

 

[KingLB]

Even if he were healthy, RR would have been paired with DD, not Muzzin. Having said that he would have been an ideal pairing with DD on the PP.

Meh, personally I don't think RR should be paired with DD all year. Not sure at this point in his career if his body can handle playing all the mins he is gonna get with DD. Muzzin would hold up much better imo. Yea maybe move RR back up for the playoffs, but I don't think he can handle 100+ games of ~20 mins a nite.

 

[CNS]

Just think of all the cap money we gained if someone picks Schultz up...

None? He's being waived and sent down. His salary is under $900k. Zero dollars of his cap will count against our cap limits.

Edit: Should say that by waiving him, his cap is essentially already off of the books as he'll be sent down tomorrow. Him being claimed will do nothing cap wise for us.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Meh, personally I don't think RR should be paired with DD all year. Not sure at this point in his career if his body can handle playing all the mins he is gonna get with DD. Muzzin would hold up much better imo. Yea maybe move RR back up for the playoffs, but I don't think he can handle 100+ games of ~20 mins a nite.

I agree with you for the most part.

I'm merely saying that this is how Sutter's going to roll for majority of the season.

 

[onlyalad]

With Schulz gone are they under the cap?

 

[CNS]

With Schulz gone are they under the cap?

No as Toffoli, Vey, and Pearson are still on the roster. Once those 3 are sent down, which we now know all 3 will be, we will be under the cap.

 

[kingsfan]

Garon is a proven, veteran NHL backup. Scrivens isn't. And Scrivens quite frankly isn't very good. I'll take Garon any day.

Perhaps, but I guessthat depends on what you classify as proven.

Yes, Garon has a lengthier career, but Scrivens is coming off the better season. The last time Garon posted a above average save percentage was 2007-2008. He's hovered around .900 ever since.

I'm not sure if you seen Scrivens in Toronto or not, but I did. The guy is cool as a cucumber and has very good reflexes and timing. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I thnk he has the upside of a Dwayne Roloson. I think you give Garon the crdit he deserved about a decade ago and underrate Scrivens oticaby.

From Kopitars recent performances it looks like his fear of the goal net is gone. He's look great.

It's not January yet. He'll come back around for his usual one month off in the middle of the season.

Poor Doughty...also good-bye Schultz?

Or Schultz is likely in and Sutter wanted to give Ellerby one last look.

That said, I agree with you, Schultz seems like the odd man out.

Buncha people who know JACK about goaltending. YOU come in to a game cold.

If every backup came into a game and immediately allowed a goal, how long would they be a backup for?

It's unfair to have to come in cold, I agree, but that's the role of a backup and if you can't get away from using the excuse of "I was cold" each time you let in a goal as a backup, you won' be the backup for very long.

I'm far from blindly supporting him. But to me, to have nearly an entire fan base want a player to be traded after one bad year and while that player is still young and can turn it around is crazy.

Nearly the entire fanbase based on what poll? That's your own opinion, not a fact. If anything, I think most of the fanbase here defended through last season despte his struggles, not wanted him traded.

Maybe you're thinking of Dwight King?

I swear, there was probably
10 to 15 of us in section 16 that gave off a very audible "oh, ****" when Mitchell blocked that shot and started limping. Scary.

You know what, though, Lombardi put the defense in a position in which if Mitchell goes down we're looking pretty thin back there. I still don't think everyone really grasps how different the D will look without Scuderi back there this year. It's sink or swim with Mitchell's shotty health this year. Regher and Greene are sort of redundant, big and physical but slow and prone to exposure. Doughty and Voynov are studs, sure, and Martinez is looking good. Past that the depth is pretty abysmal.

Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Dean go hard after a top four defenseman at the deadline this year.

How are pretty thin?

Doughty-Muzzin
Regehr-Martinez
Greene-Ellerby
Schultz

It's not a terrible blueline. I mean we rolled with arguably a worse blueline last year (had Scuderi but no Greene and no Regehr for most of the season) and we did well. The defensive numbers will only get better if Quick plays like Quick can during the regular season this year.

 

[kingsfan]

Schultz waived. Bye idiot. Terrible signing. Thankfully it's already fixed.

How is it a terrible signing? He's going to be in Manchester and if we have an injury he's a quick recall. Other than Deslaurier, we really don't have anyone worthy of a recall in case of injury. He adds nice depth if we need a plug for a game or two.

 

[goosh]

How is it a terrible signing? He's going to be in Manchester and if we have an injury he's a quick recall. Other than Deslaurier, we really don't have anyone worthy of a recall in case of injury. He adds nice depth if we need a plug for a game or two.

He's a waste of a roster spot in Manchester.

Andrew Bodnarchuk should be the #9 dman, not Schultz.

 

[HYORI 1963]

How are pretty thin?

Doughty-Muzzin
Regehr-Martinez
Greene-Ellerby
Schultz

It's not a terrible blueline. I mean we rolled with arguably a worse blueline last year (had Scuderi but no Greene and no Regehr for most of the season) and we did well. The defensive numbers will only get better if Quick plays like Quick can during the regular season this year.

Voynov?

 

[HYORI 1963]

How is it a terrible signing? He's going to be in Manchester and if we have an injury he's a quick recall. Other than Deslaurier, we really don't have anyone worthy of a recall in case of injury. He adds nice depth if we need a plug for a game or two.

I tend to agree, but I also think Bodnarchuk and Campbell should be considered.