Positively time for some positiveness - We Played Well!

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I'm not saying it's a positive, I'm saying that there are times when teams play well and still lose hockey games. I'm just curious, in your mind, is there any circumstance in which a team can play well and still lose a game, or can a team only be considered to have played well when they win?

I never said that a team can't play well and lose. I'm just saying there's absolutely no satisfaction in that whatsoever.

 

[BlaqICE]

I never said that a team can't play well and lose. I'm just saying there's absolutely no satisfaction in that whatsoever.

Well then we're pretty much on the same page because I feel totally unsatisfied as well. I just felt they played well for most of the game.

 

[eco's bones]

Pittsburgh was opportunistic in the last game. Three breakaways--two goals. Other that that they didn't do a lot besides defend. A quarter inch and St. Louis has a goal. Zuccarello's shot ran the length of the crossbar. A goal and there's a momentum swing. Pittsburgh sat back in the last period making the Rangers come up the ice 200 ft. the whole period but if the Rangers do get that goal then the Penguins would have been really on their heels. Fleury was very good and the Rangers weren't able to generate more than a handful of good opportunities.

Territorially we were quite a bit better--how we used that advantage was the problem. Rangers have a tendency to get cute. If they had more top end talent that might not be such a problem. They need to attack the net a lot harder in the next game.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

1940! The Hockey Gods! The goalie got lucky with the posts! The schedule! Bettman! Matchups!

For ****s sake! When will it stop?

Sports are passionate, and they should be that way, but there isn't some meta-physical fate. The organization makes the fate for themselves.

I don't want to go against anyone's lifelong beliefs, so I'm not going to extend this post into all realms of life, but the gods, nature, luck, or any other crap I hear fans of losing teams say is a bunch of garbage.

If they don't directly attribute it to lady luck, they gripe on every call or non-call, every noon game, or any other surface issue they can find, but when a team collapses continuously, it's not fate doing, it's the fate that was created.

The playoffs are the equalizer. The great teams triumph, and the weak are weeded out one by one. That's what makes the NHL playoffs one of the best championships in the world. These guys play with broken bones, loose their teeth, are drowned in levels of corporate and societal pressure that would make the average person lose their mind, but for those that achieve the cup, the earned it. Plain and simple.

My Dad raised me a Ranger fan, and I will always be a Ranger fan, but this team has been making the same fate for themselves over and over again by the same errors.

Since the Eposito trade, the Rangers have bought stars and mercenaries. It only worked once when Pocklington was under federal charges, and the Rangers traded Nicholls, scrubs, and $10 million + in cash to the Oilers.

The cap era forced the Rangers to be somewhat fiscally conservative. We actually started drafting players that stuck. We never drafted low enough for a top center (another issue for another time), but we actually got some good pieces. Slowly the mercenary interchangeable army is rearing it's ugly head again, and this is the end result.

Rick Nash may be still feeling effects from concussions, but what about MSL? Do you think he forgot how to play hockey? Do you actually think he needed all this time to learn AV's "novel" system?

Maybe, just maybe, they don't work well enough together. Maybe, when the great equalizer, the playoffs, hits their isn't enough synergy between them to compensate.

The fact is, this organization has dug their own grave for years. I want to believe, but its very hard to do it.

This organization chose this fate, and the team's collective stress factors are starting to show.

I'll be at the game on Wednesday as I always am, but for **** sake, don't even insinuate that an outside "fate" or any other surface issues had anything to do with this.

 

[Raspewtin]

I didn't think they played bad either. Getting shutout by MAF, TWICE, really hurt though.

I still think they can win. But they will be so gassed by the next series they'll probably be swept.

 

[Ail]

Still a better team than Pitt outside of Malkin and Crosby. When you have two of the best players in the world on your team you have a chance to win every year. Other than that Pitt is a mediocre team and if the stupid powerplay didnt look like a pile of rotting hot garbage covered in dead skunks this series and the last series look a **** of a lot different.

They have been a consistently good team 5 on 5.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I didn't think they played bad either. Getting shutout by MAF, TWICE, really hurt though.

I still think they can win. But they will be so gassed by the next series they'll probably be swept.

Ah, but there's the rub - one of the residual effects of this series packing in games early is that it will be over earlier than other series. We are playing game four tonight while Anaheim-LA doesn't play game three until tomorrow night, and we're ahead of the other two series too.

There will be some built-in rest for the team that wins this series - hopefully us!

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Ah, but there's the rub - one of the residual effects of this series packing in games early is that it will be over earlier than other series. We are playing game four tonight while Anaheim-LA doesn't play game three until tomorrow night, and we're ahead of the other two series too.

There will be some built-in rest for the team that wins this series - hopefully us!

Barring a huge change in compete level and some production from our big names, I have a feeling this team about to get a lot of rest.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Still a better team than Pitt outside of Malkin and Crosby. When you have two of the best players in the world on your team you have a chance to win every year. Other than that Pitt is a mediocre team and if the stupid powerplay didnt look like a pile of rotting hot garbage covered in dead skunks this series and the last series look a **** of a lot different.

They have been a consistently good team 5 on 5.

100% agreed. If we have even a remotely functioning power play we are up 2-1 in this series.

It's shocking that the power play has been this bad when it was a strength at times this year. Yes it's been inconsistent. But never consistently terrible.

 

[Cliffy1814]

I never said that a team can't play well and lose. I'm just saying there's absolutely no satisfaction in that whatsoever.

I feel differently, especially in hockey where the difference between a 4-2 win and a 4-2 loss can often be a couple of goal posts or odd deflections.
Anytime you outshoot a team 35-15 you should be able to extract some positive feeling from that about the games going forward.

I certainly feel alot better about chances tonight coming off of Game 3, than I would have if they got dominated like they did in game 2.

Same result = different outlook = some measure of satisfaction

 

[Cliffy1814]

1940! The Hockey Gods! The goalie got lucky with the posts! The schedule! Bettman! Matchups!

For ****s sake! When will it stop?

Sports are passionate, and they should be that way, but there isn't some meta-physical fate. The organization makes the fate for themselves.

I don't want to go against anyone's lifelong beliefs, so I'm not going to extend this post into all realms of life, but the gods, nature, luck, or any other crap I hear fans of losing teams say is a bunch of garbage.

If they don't directly attribute it to lady luck, they gripe on every call or non-call, every noon game, or any other surface issue they can find, but when a team collapses continuously, it's not fate doing, it's the fate that was created.

The playoffs are the equalizer. The great teams triumph, and the weak are weeded out one by one. That's what makes the NHL playoffs one of the best championships in the world. These guys play with broken bones, loose their teeth, are drowned in levels of corporate and societal pressure that would make the average person lose their mind, but for those that achieve the cup, the earned it. Plain and simple.

My Dad raised me a Ranger fan, and I will always be a Ranger fan, but this team has been making the same fate for themselves over and over again by the same errors.

Since the Eposito trade, the Rangers have bought stars and mercenaries. It only worked once when Pocklington was under federal charges, and the Rangers traded Nicholls, scrubs, and $10 million + in cash to the Oilers.

The cap era forced the Rangers to be somewhat fiscally conservative. We actually started drafting players that stuck. We never drafted low enough for a top center (another issue for another time), but we actually got some good pieces. Slowly the mercenary interchangeable army is rearing it's ugly head again, and this is the end result.

Rick Nash may be still feeling effects from concussions, but what about MSL? Do you think he forgot how to play hockey? Do you actually think he needed all this time to learn AV's "novel" system?

Maybe, just maybe, they don't work well enough together. Maybe, when the great equalizer, the playoffs, hits their isn't enough synergy between them to compensate.

The fact is, this organization has dug their own grave for years. I want to believe, but its very hard to do it.

This organization chose this fate, and the team's collective stress factors are starting to show.

I'll be at the game on Wednesday as I always am, but for **** sake, don't even insinuate that an outside "fate" or any other surface issues had anything to do with this.

"Luck" is very real but I do believe it evens out over time.
In Game 7 against Philly, Zucc makes a blind pass that floats between two sets of Flyers legs and hits Pouliot on the tape...Very good fortune.
On Monday our struggling PP hits two goal posts on the same 4 minute PP.
Would the outcome of both games been the same regradless of those plays? Maybe..maybe not.

I like to use the word randomness rather than luck. There is a totally random nature to sports where cetian things just kind of happen. It's what makes sports great and is part of the reason that they are impossible to predict.

This team does not contiunually collapse. Post lockout it has been one of the more successful franchises. I know we live in a sports environment where its championship or nothing, but you can count on one hand the number of NHL teams that have won 20 playoff games in the last three years. We have gone exactly where our talent level should have brought us...maybe even a little farther.
As you said...Sports is passion and it's entertainment. Every single day my team is alive in the playoffs is a fun day... a day to think about a game or analyze it. I am bitterly disappointed when it's over, but it does help to occassionaly say "I am lucky I root for this team and not the Panthers, Islanders, etc" as opposed to constantly wondering why we can't be the Hawks or Bruins.
I know it's cheesy "Glass half full" stuff, but it is reality IMO.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

"Luck" is very real but I do believe it evens out over time.
In Game 7 against Philly, Zucc makes a blind pass that floats between two sets of Flyers legs and hits Pouliot on the tape...Very good fortune.
On Monday our struggling PP hits two goal posts on the same 4 minute PP.
Would the outcome of both games been the same regradless of those plays? Maybe..maybe not.

I like to use the word randomness rather than luck. There is a totally random nature to sports where cetian things just kind of happen. It's what makes sports great and is part of the reason that they are impossible to predict.

This team does not contiunually collapse. Post lockout it has been one of the more successful franchises. I know we live in a sports environment where its championship or nothing, but you can count on one hand the number of NHL teams that have won 20 playoff games in the last three years. We have gone exactly where our talent level should have brought us...maybe even a little farther.
As you said...Sports is passion and it's entertainment. Every single day my team is alive in the playoffs is a fun day... a day to think about a game or analyze it. I am bitterly disappointed when it's over, but it does help to occassionaly say "I am lucky I root for this team and not the Panthers, Islanders, etc" as opposed to constantly wondering why we can't be the Hawks or Bruins.
I know it's cheesy "Glass half full" stuff, but it is reality IMO.

Look at the bolded point at the top. That's the key to my point. "Luck" may get one goal, "luck" may get one game, and at the most "luck" may get a win in a weak series, but as you said it evens out.

It's not luck that the Rangers have made the playoffs, they threw enough money at the team to make them better than a team like the Panthers. It's also not luck that we have trouble making it out of the second round. It's what the team is.

So people can go on blaming every "unlucky" call, non-call, hot goaltender, etc., but the fact is if this team craps out, it's not luck. They weren't good enough to do it.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Where are all my peeps who post all regular season long about 'anything can happen in the playoffs'? All of a sudden you're silent in the actual playoffs? Where are you when you are needed most?

We need some 'anything' to happen right now - starting tonight would be optimal!

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Where are all my peeps who post all regular season long about 'anything can happen in the playoffs'? All of a sudden you're silent in the actual playoffs? Where are you when you are needed most?

We need some 'anything' to happen right now - starting tonight would be optimal!

If I may miss.

I will be watching no matter what happens, but I think something may of happened after the last two games that led to a slight decrease in optimism:

 

[Cliffy1814]

Look at the bolded point at the top. That's the key to my point. "Luck" may get one goal, "luck" may get one game, and at the most "luck" may get a win in a weak series, but as you said it evens out.

It's not luck that the Rangers have made the playoffs, they threw enough money at the team to make them better than a team like the Panthers. It's also not luck that we have trouble making it out of the second round. It's what the team is.

So people can go on blaming every "unlucky" call, non-call, hot goaltender, etc., but the fact is if this team craps out, it's not luck. They weren't good enough to do it.

That is just how society operates nowadays. When something goes wrong people are looking around for first one to blame.
Refs, bounces, schedule, Nash, Lundqvist, Sather, someone or something must be to blame.

 

[Jersey Girl]

That is just how society operates nowadays. When something goes wrong people are looking around for first one to blame.
Refs, bounces, schedule, Nash, Lundqvist, Sather, someone or something must be to blame.

I vote Sather

 

[Cliffy1814]

Look at the bolded point at the top. That's the key to my point. "Luck" may get one goal, "luck" may get one game, and at the most "luck" may get a win in a weak series, but as you said it evens out.

It's not luck that the Rangers have made the playoffs, they threw enough money at the team to make them better than a team like the Panthers. It's also not luck that we have trouble making it out of the second round. It's what the team is.

So people can go on blaming every "unlucky" call, non-call, hot goaltender, etc., but the fact is if this team craps out, it's not luck. They weren't good enough to do it.

I think that the difference between your view and mine is that you seem to feel that losing is inevitable. At 2-1 with a home game to play tonight many seem to feel the series as over.
A. It's debatebale as to how much better the Penguins really are than the Rangers
B. Even if they are better, The lesser team often beats the more talented one in hockey.

Based on what we saw in Game three, there is no reason whatsoever not to be optimistic/excited about prospects going forward.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Based on what we saw in Game three, there is no reason whatsoever to be optimistic/excited about prospects going forward.

Fixed that for ya

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I think that the difference between your view and mine is that you seem to feel that losing is inevitable. At 2-1 with a home game to play tonight many seem to feel the series as over.
A. It's debatebale as to how much better the Penguins really are than the Rangers
B. Even if they are better, The lesser team often beats the more talented one in hockey.

Based on what we saw in Game three, there is no reason whatsoever not to be optimistic/excited about prospects going forward.

Losing is not in itself inevitable, but a team that is not constructed properly will at some point in the great equalizer, the quest for Lord Stanley's Cup, be eliminated.

I'm not going to get into a deeper philosophical debate on the topic of randomness or if we as humans can ever really predict anything.

Historically, the Rangers have been a team that purchases pieces instead of building, and they have limited success with it.

Since the 05 lockout, the Rangers have been much better than the dark years from 1997-2004, but they have trouble making it past the 2nd round.

The way they have been playing the last two games is huge cause for concern.

So yes! We never know for sure, but if they do crap out in the relative same place they have for almost a decade, then it's not witchcraft. The team just wasn't good enough.

 

[wolfgaze]

To advance in the playoffs your most talented players need to perform/deliver and bring their 'A-game' on most nights. We're just not getting that. Stepan, Nash, MSL - all underperforming. Even McDonagh has not looked like his usual self but I'm way more concerned about those aforementioned forwards. While Richards has scored some goals, he hasn't looked very effective at ES in many of the games - so he bears some responsibility as well.... It's just not realistic IMHO to expect to advance in the playoffs with these key players struggling the way that they are.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Very much looking forward to the bi-polar shift of this board in about seven hours when we beat Pittsburgh tonight, everyone realizes the Bruins are down 2-1, and people start posting about our easy road to the Stanley Cup finals!

 

[Cassano]

That is just how society operates nowadays. When something goes wrong people are looking around for first one to blame.
Refs, bounces, schedule, Nash, Lundqvist, Sather, someone or something must be to blame.

Lundqvist.

 

[eco's bones]

Luck is luck--there's no guarantee that anything evens out. Take for instance Patrice Bergeron's goal in the Boston-Montreal second game--just a wicked, skipping shot that went by Carey Price and Boston was then off to the races and won a game they looked almost certain to lose. I'm not even sure how it did what it did. That's luck. Remember when McDonagh scored his shorthanded goal against the Kings early this season? Face-off--slap the puck off the boards--down the ice--Quick comes out to play it-loses his stick somehow and the puck deflects off it into the net. I think it was the Rangers first win of the season. There are freak injuries that can derail a team if they happen to the right guy at the right time. In life there's such a thing as winning the lottery. You don't even have to pick the numbers--the machine might do it for you. Luck exists and it's not necessarily fair.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Luck is luck--there's no guarantee that anything evens out. Take for instance Patrice Bergeron's goal in the Boston-Montreal second game--just a wicked, skipping shot that went by Carey Price and Boston was then off to the races and won a game they looked almost certain to lose. I'm not even sure how it did what it did. That's luck. Remember when McDonagh scored his shorthanded goal against the Kings early this season? Face-off--slap the puck off the boards--down the ice--Quick comes out to play it-loses his stick somehow and the puck deflects off it into the net. There are freak injuries that can derail a team if they happen to the right guy at the right time. In life there's such a thing as winning the lottery. You don't even have to pick the numbers--the machine might do it for you. Luck exists and it's not necessarily fair.

Luck is also a product of hard work and desire. You can put yourself in a position where bad luck means a goal you should have scored doesn't go in the other team's net - and you can also put yourself in a position where bad luck results in the puck in the back of your net.

Big difference.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Luck is luck--there's no guarantee that anything evens out. Take for instance Patrice Bergeron's goal in the Boston-Montreal second game--just a wicked, skipping shot that went by Carey Price and Boston was then off to the races and won a game they looked almost certain to lose. I'm not even sure how it did what it did. That's luck. Remember when McDonagh scored his shorthanded goal against the Kings early this season? Face-off--slap the puck off the boards--down the ice--Quick comes out to play it-loses his stick somehow and the puck deflects off it into the net. I think it was the Rangers first win of the season. There are freak injuries that can derail a team if they happen to the right guy at the right time. In life there's such a thing as winning the lottery. You don't even have to pick the numbers--the machine might do it for you. Luck exists and it's not necessarily fair.

Your equating two entirely different situations.

If you have a machine at a convenience store pick an arbitrary set of numbers for you, and you win, then that was "lucky."

If a team that was methodically planned loses one game because of one random event, that is also "unlucky."

But if that team that is methodically planned continually fails to reach the prize over the long term, it's not luck, it was poor planning.