[Poll] Zibanejad @10M or Eichel?

[brakeyawself]

short answer to the above, and thanks btw for the quality feedback, is
not every place offers the same or comparably high opportunity.

Is there any reason to think if he came to NY that Dolan would bump him up in the pecking order if/when he realizes/gets to a point understanding he can't take the team with him when he like all of us meets the grim reaper and has to sell? No.

And team ownership is just one such possible. You point out financial risk, but goodwill is a recognized biz concept as an asset, and IF there is risk THEN he could retain majority ownership and alleviate the financial risk w/junior partners or even other investors.

Beyond that are all kinds of avenues in politics, commerce, etc, all of which are maximized where he is most popular --- AZ

You mean as far as owning the team? I guess if that's a goal of his, but there is nothing to suggest it is.

And no, Matthews would never own the Rangers or even a relatively large stake I assume. I don't see why Dolan would have to do anything other than bring him to NY. Goodwill is all well and good lol and nice, but it simply is a minor factor compared with all the rest. All those avenues you mentioned and more would be available to him in NYC. Outside of owning the Rangers. But in terms of opportunity NYC is in a completely different stratosphere than Arizona. Arizona simply can not compete in this regard.

And present popularity is minimal. He would be far more popular in NY or where he is in Toronto than Arizona. I am not sure where you get the idea he's more popular in Arizona. That seems like a baseless assumption. "Goodwill" aside. If he actually wanted to maximize popularity, it would clearly be in NYC, Chicago, Toronto etc... That's the entire point. His ability to capitalize on his popularity and on his hockey career is exponentially greater in NYC, Chicago and Toronto. It's not even close. There are opportunities in these cities that Arizona simply can not touch. Only California, Texas, NY, Florida, Illinois and probably Toronto are in that conversation in regard to massive opportunity beyond what other cities can offer.

I just really don't understand what is convincing you this theory is likely though. It still just seems to be based on your assumption that "Goodwill" will win out and that it's enough to make him want to go home to Arizona rather than being in the biggest and best markets in the league. All these assumptions about what Arizona has to offer and what AM would actually want, are simply not true and there's nothing to suggest that will change.

Goodwill and because it's his hometown, and I guess possible future NHL ownership are the ONLY reasons he would have to go to Arizona. Certainly not opportunity or maximizing opportunity. And unless he's stated somewhere that he wants to return home to play so badly, and we ca nbelieve those statements, or if he's suggested he's interested in one day owning a team, then I really don't see any reason to think what you have proposed is even slihgtly plausible.

Nothing personal. I just don't buy your arguments regarding this or what Arizona has to offer over clearly bigger and better markets. And I think you are incredibly underestimating the vast difference between NYC, Toronto, Chicago and the Phoenix, in regard to opportunity and all the rest. Generally speaking, the reasons he would have to want to play in Toronto, NYC and Chicago are the most common reasons players, who have their choice of market, pick these larger and better hockey markets. Like the reality of the situation is the complete opposite if what you have proposed.

Well, maybe I'm wrong. But a great many things are going to have to change and happen if any of what you suggest is to come true. But in the big scheme of things, playing for your hometown team and "goodwill" are at or near the bottom of most players priority lists.

 

[bernmeister]

Why? I'm not particularly worried about it, I don't particularly think we will end up extending him and that will probably be ok. But I can't just forget his contract eventually runs out around the time when we are going to have to be handing out big contracts to many other players. And if it came down to a choice between Panarin or Eichel, I would pick Panarin. Or Panarin and Zibs, I would definitely pick Panarin.



Why would we have to make him concede to forgo an NMC if we are only signing him for 2-4 seasons? We would be doing that because we will want him here for that time. We won't need the flexibility because most likely we wouldn't be trading him in his first 3/4s of that. And if he did want to trade him, say with a half a season left on his contract, I think he might remove the NMC because he'll know we aren't planning to resign him. Or maybe he'll deny to test the market. But that last season I guess is the only season we would theoretically need that NMC removed. So we could still sign him to a 4 year deal, the first 3 of which he has a NMC and the final season he can be traded. And I am not sure it effects his end total. He's going to want 10 probably, maybe 10.5 even. He's not probably worth that much, so there'd still be some leverage with the Rangers. I don't think he'd necessarily require more for a 3/4 period NMC instead of a full one. And I am not sure how much he'll demand a NMC if we are signing him to 10mil a year. Drury can still play hardball with that and make it clear, if you want 10 mil , then no NMC or whatever. If he wants to stay here and get paid, he might just have to let that one go. But I still say 3/4 period NMC is absolutely fine.



I disagree. We are the NYR, that IS our upper-hand. Along with all the opportunity and connections I've mentioned elsewhere. Again, I see no evidence or anything to suggest Arizona has the upper-hand or even one hand in getting Matthews. Unless there is specific evidence and proof that implies or directly states that he would be most inclined to go to his hometown, I see no reason to even consider Arizona in the top 5 teams or so of his ultimate choices. But Rangers would absolutely be in there because we are the Rangers. Similar reason Chicago and Toronto are in that realm. I understand AM is from Arizona, but that really is not good reason or evidence to assert he'd want to go there and that the Yotes have the "inside track or upper hand." The Rangers and those other teams DO have the inside track and upper hand because they are the largest and best hockey markets or markets in general. And being that they offer a different universe of opportunity and possibility than could Phoenix, if anyone has the advantage now it's Toronto first and foremost and then the big markets like NY, Chicago, even Detroit, probably Montreal, Boston and a few more locations. It would require specific and very persuasive proof to alter this in favor of Arizona.



I'm sorry but none of that bottom part makes any sense in the world. It's a highly improbable fantasy. There is no reason to assume Toronto would trade Matthews for any of that even in his last year of contract without having yet signed an extension. It's just not happening under any normal circumstance. Something would have to go incredibly wrong in Toronto to utterly destroy Matthews, for a trade like that to be plausible. We aren't trading Zibanijad if we extend him. It's just not happening unless we sign him to a long term contract. Then, maybe down the road. But I am not sure we will sign him to a long term contract at all.

And again, if the Rangers did get Matthews there is absolute zero chance of them turning around 2 years later to trade him to Arizona. a) It's incredibly unlikely he would want to leave the NYR and go to Arizona and b) Why would we give up Austin Matthews? The Rangers would do everything possible to retain him. Especially if they just traded Zibs plus a bunch of other assets. There's just no chance we would trade him like that and almost no chance he would want to be traded.

As far as Arizona holding "all the cards." No. No, they aren't holding all the cards, I'm not even sure they have any cards beyond that instruction card that come in most decks. Ok maybe slightly more than that. like 5 cards maybe. Compared to the like 15-20 NYR would have. Again, without evidence and substantial material to suggest this is true, it remains one of the absolute least likely outcomes. It really seems to me like you are just way overvaluing playing for a hometown team in general and then discounting the fact that hometown team is one of the least attractive clubs in the league. And I am really not sure where you got the idea that returning to his hometown team would be that attractive. Or how that seems realistic or a significant factor. But Arizona really only holds a few of the least valuable cards in the deck. Rangers in one of the best positions of any team in the league.

not sure I can articulate it clearer than that and do not wish to repeat myself
except to add it is not merely going home and playing for a favorite team which I do not see being the case in the same way Fox thank God always wanted to come here;
it is all the opportunities which actually do come with that, should he elect to take advantage of, which you are ignoring.

respectfully agree to disagree

 

[bernmeister]

You mean as far as owning the team? I guess if that's a goal of his, but there is nothing to suggest it is.

And no, Matthews would never own the Rangers or even a relatively large stake I assume. I don't see why Dolan would have to do anything other than bring him to NY. Goodwill is all well and good lol and nice, but it simply is a minor factor compared with all the rest. All those avenues you mentioned and more would be available to him in NYC. Outside of owning the Rangers. But in terms of opportunity NYC is in a completely different stratosphere than Arizona. Arizona simply can not compete in this regard.

And present popularity is minimal. He would be far more popular in NY or where he is in Toronto than Arizona. I am not sure where you get the idea he's more popular in Arizona. That seems like a baseless assumption. "Goodwill" aside. If he actually wanted to maximize popularity, it would clearly be in NYC, Chicago, Toronto etc... That's the entire point. His ability to capitalize on his popularity and on his hockey career is exponentially greater in NYC, Chicago and Toronto. It's not even close. There are opportunities in these cities that Arizona simply can not touch. Only California, Texas, NY, Florida, Illinois and probably Toronto are in that conversation in regard to massive opportunity beyond what other cities can offer.

I just really don't understand what is convincing you this theory is likely though. It still just seems to be based on your assumption that "Goodwill" will win out and that it's enough to make him want to go home to Arizona rather than being in the biggest and best markets in the league. All these assumptions about what Arizona has to offer and what AM would actually want, are simply not true and there's nothing to suggest that will change.

Goodwill and because it's his hometown, and I guess possible future NHL ownership are the ONLY reasons he would have to go to Arizona. Certainly not opportunity or maximizing opportunity. And unless he's stated somewhere that he wants to return home to play so badly, and we ca nbelieve those statements, or if he's suggested he's interested in one day owning a team, then I really don't see any reason to think what you have proposed is even slihgtly plausible.

Nothing personal. I just don't buy your arguments regarding this or what Arizona has to offer over clearly bigger and better markets. And I think you are incredibly underestimating the vast difference between NYC, Toronto, Chicago and the Phoenix, in regard to opportunity and all the rest. Generally speaking, the reasons he would have to want to play in Toronto, NYC and Chicago are the most common reasons players, who have their choice of market, pick these larger and better hockey markets. Like the reality of the situation is the complete opposite if what you have proposed.

Well, maybe I'm wrong. But a great many things are going to have to change and happen if any of what you suggest is to come true. But in the big scheme of things, playing for your hometown team and "goodwill" are at or near the bottom of most players priority lists.

you are assuming generalities which apply across the board [i.e., players having a preference to come to NYC etc].
That is fine and good.
That does not apply automatically here.

Matthews is different.
He does have more upside to potentially exploit in AZ if nothing dramatically adverse happens in next 2 yrs [like Franchise relocated, etc.].

 

[brakeyawself]

not sure I can articulate it clearer than that and do not wish to repeat myself
except to add it is not merely going home and playing for a favorite team which I do not see being the case in the same way Fox thank God always wanted to come here;
it is all the opportunities which actually do come with that, should he elect to take advantage of, which you are ignoring.

respectfully agree to disagree

lol thats what I mean. The opportunities that come with returning to Phoenix are a lot worse than the opportunities he would have coming to NYC. And I've never heard anyone ever suggest otherwise until now. I'm not asking you to repeat yourself. I just don't know where you are getting these assumptions from, assumptions that aren't true in any way. Like Arizona providing more opportunity or better opportunity.

I am not ignoring those local opportunities. I am plainly stating THEY DO NOT EXIST relative to what NYC would provide. And I am not sure why you believe they do exist. Like the reasons you are giving are simply not legitimate or actual reasons. The only actual reasons he would want to return to Arizona aree a) he's so wildly in love with the city and the team that he just feels like he has to play there. And this isn't very likely in general, for a player to prioritize such things over all the actual opportunity NY would offer. b) He one day wants to own the team or maybe be mayor or governor. That's a possibility, but there is no actual evidence to state or imply that AM does actually want to own a team or run for office. And he'd still have the opportunity to run for office in other locations. Some just as likely to succeed as he might in Arizona. and c) He actually thinks his best chance at success in hockey and winning a Cup is in Arizona. Which, well definitely wouldn't be the case now, but most probably won't be true in 5 years from now either. And everything outside of these 3 possible reasons that you've mentioned, simply are not true. They are not well supported theories or well supported arguments behind those theories. And they are generally not things that the vast majority of people would agree with on any level.

And Fox wanting to come to NY because it's his hometown, is probably not tops on his list of why he wanted to come here. He'd also be playing in one of the biggest markets in the league providing him with far more opportunity than other markets. And Rangers are an original franchise.

Anyway, I think we are at a stalemate. I am just baffled by the reasons you gave and the assumptions within. Never heard anyone seriously state that Phoenix would provide more or better opportunity to a player because he's from there over the biggest and best market teams. Because I don't think that is true in any way shape or form.

Do you live in NYC? Do you know what it's like here compared to Phoenix? The type and massive amounts of people? The many billionaires let alone millionaires. And the legitimately endless business and commercial opportunities in NYC rather than a place like Phoenix. In terms of what we are discussing here, Phoenix might as well be on a different planet. At least half the reasons you gave for why Matthews would "want" to go to Coyotes, are actually the reverse of what you said. They are actually true about NYC and Toronto, but not Arizona.

 

[brakeyawself]

you are assuming generalities which apply across the board [i.e., players having a preference to come to NYC etc].
That is fine and good.
That does not apply automatically here.

Matthews is different.
He does have more upside to potentially exploit in AZ if nothing dramatically adverse happens in next 2 yrs [like Franchise relocated, etc.].

No it's not just a blanket generality. There are real and legit reasons behind the preference. I think that's what you're missing here. It's not just an opinion. NYC factually provides more opportunity, both commercially and in regard to his NHL career. NYC offers way more business opportunity and connections to a much larger amount of influential and "important" people. Playing in NYC would make his name and likeness be worth a great, great deal more. And in NYC he would get attention from the entire country, the entire hockey world and probably the entire world to some degree. Which just wouldn't be true in Phoenix.

Also in NYC, he would stand a better chance to win a Cup for a longer period of time than he would in Arizona. Just based on where those franchises are and where they are headed over the next decade.

Players more often want to play in NYC because of the above reasons. And this is no different for Matthews. He would be in a far great financial, commercial and career position in NYC. And There is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY more upside to exploit in NYC. Again, you are just making this up about Phoenix. It's something that is not true. And I am not sure why you think that is true.

And what makes "Matthews different"? You've said a great deal of things like this with absolutely no rational reason behind it. It's not simply true because you said it.

Where as all that I have said about what NYC has to offer in comparison to Arizona IS actually true. And it's why they are called big market teams. And they are the main reasons, players pick those markets. It's something you can objectively judge. All you need to do is look at the size and scope of the city, with it's more than 9 million people, 16 million regionally, the passion for their teams and the trillions of dollars and many billionaires and millionaires that pass through NYC each and every day to understand this. And it's something almost everyone would agree upon. Which is the entire reason of why I am suggesting him going to Arizona is unlikely. And I provided the few valid reasons that might make him consider playing in Arizona rather than NYC. But opportunity and upside with the potential to exploit absolutely are NOT among those that favor Arizona

The reasons you are giving for him wanting to play in Arizona, are actually the reasons he would choose NYC instead. Aside from the 3 I mentioned.

Anyway. Good chat I guess lol. I don't think I'll ever quite understand where you're getting these ideas about Phoenix relative to NYC.

 

[bobbop]

you are assuming generalities which apply across the board [i.e., players having a preference to come to NYC etc].
That is fine and good.
That does not apply automatically here.

Matthews is different.
He does have more upside to potentially exploit in AZ if nothing dramatically adverse happens in next 2 yrs [like Franchise relocated, etc.].

I think you need to step back and take a deeper look at the Coyotes. They are years and years away from being relevant. The Coyotes have 12 players headed to free agency, two dead weight contracts and two guys with big contracts (Keller & Schmaltz) they can’t trade. Right now only Dvorak, Chychrun and Timmins are guys who could project on a winning team.

The Coyotes are miles away, tanking for this years draft and will sell most anything on their roster for futures. Fan interest has been gutted.

There’s nothing much here for Mathews to exploit.

 

[Rangers ftw]

Matthews will resign with Toronto, unless Toronto have other plans, which is highly unlikely.

 

[bernmeister]

No it's not just a blanket generality. There are real and legit reasons behind the preference. I think that's what you're missing here. It's not just an opinion. NYC factually provides more opportunity, both commercially and in regard to his NHL career. NYC offers way more business opportunity and connections to a much larger amount of influential and "important" people. Playing in NYC would make his name and likeness be worth a great, great deal more. And in NYC he would get attention from the entire country, the entire hockey world and probably the entire world to some degree. Which just wouldn't be true in Phoenix.

Also in NYC, he would stand a better chance to win a Cup for a longer period of time than he would in Arizona. Just based on where those franchises are and where they are headed over the next decade.

Players more often want to play in NYC because of the above reasons. And this is no different for Matthews. He would be in a far great financial, commercial and career position in NYC. And There is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY more upside to exploit in NYC. Again, you are just making this up about Phoenix. It's something that is not true. And I am not sure why you think that is true.

And what makes "Matthews different"? You've said a great deal of things like this with absolutely no rational reason behind it. It's not simply true because you said it.

Where as all that I have said about what NYC has to offer in comparison to Arizona IS actually true. And it's why they are called big market teams. And they are the main reasons, players pick those markets. It's something you can objectively judge. All you need to do is look at the size and scope of the city, with it's more than 9 million people, 16 million regionally, the passion for their teams and the trillions of dollars and many billionaires and millionaires that pass through NYC each and every day to understand this. And it's something almost everyone would agree upon. Which is the entire reason of why I am suggesting him going to Arizona is unlikely. And I provided the few valid reasons that might make him consider playing in Arizona rather than NYC. But opportunity and upside with the potential to exploit absolutely are NOT among those that favor Arizona

The reasons you are giving for him wanting to play in Arizona, are actually the reasons he would choose NYC instead. Aside from the 3 I mentioned.

Anyway. Good chat I guess lol. I don't think I'll ever quite understand where you're getting these ideas about Phoenix relative to NYC.

agree, good chat
civil and interesting, spirited exchange

 

[bernmeister]

I think you need to step back and take a deeper look at the Coyotes. They are years and years away from being relevant. The Coyotes have 12 players headed to free agency, two dead weight contracts and two guys with big contracts (Keller & Schmaltz) they can’t trade. Right now only Dvorak, Chychrun and Timmins are guys who could project on a winning team.

The Coyotes are miles away, tanking for this years draft and will sell most anything on their roster for futures. Fan interest has been gutted.

There’s nothing much here for Mathews to exploit.

Hence all the more reason for AZ to be legit interested and offer all in its power.

On one level of what applies across the board it is powerless or substandard, incl atm as to cup run

But on another intangible level, as I've explained it offers much.

The key here will be what Matthews wants
If he wants highest cup chance in a single year maybe 2, he will go to the team he thinks best maxes that, perhaps Colorado.

If he wants team poised to be on a deep run for multiple cups, he may consider NYR or LAK

If he wants max $, any team would juggle to max cap offer.

But only AZ offers intangibles on top of that.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You misunderstand, and therefore mispresent me, my good man.
Pls read my prior post #217.

they are not losing Matthews to keep Tavares.
They are stuck w/Tavares b'c he is home guy who has full nmc and will NOT go anywhere.

Matthews is on his own separate track, not affected by anything else.

As to the bold generality, while it is not irrelevant, it is subordinate to the current reality, which specifically includes:
1. AM has unique options in AZ others did/do not have anywhere.
That is dominant and overriding.

2. cap is more constraining than ever before
by this I emphasize not just total cap $$ but structural cap of a large salary guy.
Leafs are top heavy
they have lost this way
they project to continue to lose this way.

They can't move Marner w/out retaining or taking a production hit.
Tavares asserts nmc and goes nowhere.

They either die on the hill that is keep matthews and tinker while basically swimming in more of the same which is potentially winning strategy, but against the grain, like an inside straight in poker.
not good odds
best odds long term are this deal w/retained Zib ensuring top pivot presence [even if less than AM] for an extra 1-2 yrs, w/inside track on retaining Zib after that if that makes sense, plus other swag.

Toronto is not trading Mathews but I'm going to go along with the Toronto is trading Mathews hypothetical for discussion sake. Having JE on this team at 5 mill (Buf retains 5 per Brooks) would make it more attractive to Mathews and easier on our cap than most teams.
As far as commercial money goes I'm not sure Mathews would be better in NYC. Ny Rangers do not get huge commercial money. Its not really a hockey town but even the Knicks do not get big commercial money. In Toronto hockey is huge. Mathews might get more there. Commercial money will be minor compared to any hockey contract he signs.
Candidly if you said no to JE because of health I could understand but saying no to JE today based on this mythical future Mathews trade really does not make sense to me.

 

[bobbop]

Hence all the more reason for AZ to be legit interested and offer all in its power.

On one level of what applies across the board it is powerless or substandard, incl atm as to cup run

But on another intangible level, as I've explained it offers much.

The key here will be what Matthews wants
If he wants highest cup chance in a single year maybe 2, he will go to the team he thinks best maxes that, perhaps Colorado.

If he wants team poised to be on a deep run for multiple cups, he may consider NYR or LAK

If he wants max $, any team would juggle to max cap offer.

But only AZ offers intangibles on top of that.

All of the intangibles in the world can’t make up for the chance to play on a winning team. Arizona hasn’t done squat in a decade and they are stripping down the team to the studs. It’s ugly and it’s getting uglier by the minute. It will be a long time before they are an attractive destination, even for a native Arizonan.

 

[CLW]

All of the intangibles in the world can’t make up for the chance to play on a winning team. Arizona hasn’t done squat in a decade and they are stripping down the team to the studs. It’s ugly and it’s getting uglier by the minute. It will be a long time before they are an attractive destination, even for a native Arizonan.

It's necessary. I followed the Jets when they became Phoenix Coyotes. They moved to the desert with Teemu Selanne, Zaitsev, Keith Tkachuk, Teppo Numminen, Housley and Khabibulin etc. They've done nothing since then. Poor management and poor ownership have kept the franchise as relevant as Pluto to the NHL. Year after year of trying to make the playoffs at any cost, or pretending to, has kept the team spinning around in mediocrity and irrelevancy.

Finally they are doing the right thing and resetting the whole thing. Hopefully Bettman, Meruelo and GM Bill Armstrong have a good plan to find traction for this sorry franchise. There is a lot of promise in Arizona for hockey but they can't keep half-arsing their way around. Invest actual money into the franchise (gambling deal), restock with talent in the next few drafts and create a real franchise that can compete for the cup, not just be pleased with itself if it manages to slip into the playoffs every now and then for a participation prize.

Covid came at a bad time for the Coyotes new ownership, so that may have added a couple extra rough years, but that's also as good a time as any to reboot and emerge fresh when the lean years are over.

 

[bernmeister]

All of the intangibles in the world can’t make up for the chance to play on a winning team. Arizona hasn’t done squat in a decade and they are stripping down the team to the studs. It’s ugly and it’s getting uglier by the minute. It will be a long time before they are an attractive destination, even for a native Arizonan.

assuming this is correct, if we replaced
Strome + Zib + Jones + Reunanen + Geo w/Matthews,
we would instantly be a cup contender if not a cup favorite

if we miss, and you are right, AM may keep options open to pursue cup
if we win a cup and he wants to stay, great
if we win a cup and he says ok, checked off my to do list, then he wants to move on, we grab what we can from AZ for expiring rental equiv in his final yr

 

[bernmeister]

Toronto is not trading Mathews but I'm going to go along with the Toronto is trading Mathews hypothetical for discussion sake. Having JE on this team at 5 mill (Buf retains 5 per Brooks) would make it more attractive to Mathews and easier on our cap than most teams.
As far as commercial money goes I'm not sure Mathews would be better in NYC. Ny Rangers do not get huge commercial money. Its not really a hockey town but even the Knicks do not get big commercial money. In Toronto hockey is huge. Mathews might get more there. Commercial money will be minor compared to any hockey contract he signs.
Candidly if you said no to JE because of health I could understand but saying no to JE today based on this mythical future Mathews trade really does not make sense to me.

1. appreciate you disagreeing but showing an open mind as to a hypothetical

2 commercial $ don't see as an issue as any/every team does whatev is nec to have cap to pay him max limit

3. for purely hockey, yes, Canada in general and TOR in particular has more signif props than NYC , tho Gotham enjoys better across the board rep

4 again he may want to max his post career situation with AZ sooner than later; maybe not. Mathematically the faster he goes there, the more goodwill he builds up.

5 There is an obsession some have w/Eich
do not want UNLESS and ONLY IF
there is amelioration of risk by having principal payment in multiple conditional 7ths each of which can generate into 1sts, but that is in response to what Eich delivers, so in that case only worth it.

Do not want to give up any bluest blue chip elcs, even if Sabes eat half.

-------
Please understand:
this situation has been botched w/unacceptable posturing by BUF.

The only honorable way to proceed in these exact circumstances are for Sabes to give Eich the surgery he wants, allow him to recover, and if as likely all still want a deal, fine. Bidding starts on what Jack shows and we can all make an informed decision.

If Buf does not want to do that for whatev reason, then they have to capitulate and choke on whatever is offered.

Period.

Don't let your win now passion for JE override the sensibility of maintaining our deep elc roster -- tho one which does not have surplus.

I like to be even handed in these things but the failure of Sabes to not place player's health at paramount forces this judgment.

Finally, there is a chance that Sabes may let Eichel offer them to buy him out of his contract.
At that point he only costs a signing club salary $ and cap space.
Something to consider

patience my friend, patience

 

[brakeyawself]

Toronto is not trading Mathews but I'm going to go along with the Toronto is trading Mathews hypothetical for discussion sake. Having JE on this team at 5 mill (Buf retains 5 per Brooks) would make it more attractive to Mathews and easier on our cap than most teams.
As far as commercial money goes I'm not sure Mathews would be better in NYC. Ny Rangers do not get huge commercial money. Its not really a hockey town but even the Knicks do not get big commercial money. In Toronto hockey is huge. Mathews might get more there. Commercial money will be minor compared to any hockey contract he signs.
Candidly if you said no to JE because of health I could understand but saying no to JE today based on this mythical future Mathews trade really does not make sense to me.

I agree with most of what you suggested, except the bold.

Hockey probably is the least valued of the major sports within NY, but that doesn't mean it's not one of the most valuable commercial markets. It's NYC. The entire draw of NYC is the commercial opportunity and vast exposure and popularity. Even in hockey. If we are speaking in relative terms, the only reason a place like Toronto could compete with NY is because it is hockey crazy, which helps reconcile the normal disadvantages, like commercial and business opportunity that automatically come with playing in NYC. And NYC has so many people, and that doubles when you consider the "tri state area" or extended NYC community, which goes through New Jersey, Long Island and large swaths of upstate NY as well as parts of Connecticut. So many Ranger fans in NJ and Connecticut and possibly even North Eastern Pennsylvania, like Scranton. That the actual fan base at the end of the day is probably of similar size.

Look at Lundqvist. A goalie who has never won a Cup, but an absolute NYC legend who had a bunch of commercial opportunity he wouldn't have had elsewhere. Same thing for Mike Richter who at least did win a cup. That whole 94 squad really.

I think many people seem to be underestimating all the advantages that come with playing in NYC that simply do not come with playing in a place like Arizona or even St. Louis. You can't just base it on the small, insular circle of obsessive fans. NYC provides a similar insular circle of obsessive fans, plus an endless stream of fair weather and sporadic fans. And more business opportunity than any other market. Beyond just the commercial. Into real estate and big business and investment.

Plus it's an original six team. Which does matter in terms of the hockey world. As far as hockey goes, you aren't going to find much better markets than Toronto and Montreal. That's understandable. But relatively, NYC is still one of the top 5-10 markets during any given period. Probably along with Chicago, Detroit (which is special because Detroit the city is in shambles), maybe Boston and a few other growing markets. Unfortunately Winnipeg, Calgary and Edmonton, as dear as hockey is in those locations, they simply are not large or populated enough to provide a similar opportunity. Vancouver is an interesting one, and certainly they have their circle of obsessed fans. But I am not sure if hockey has the same impact on the greater Vancouver area. And now the Kraken will be feeding off that regional base which might actually end up hurting the Canucks to an extent.

But out of all the hockey markets, Arizona has to be among the very bottom, the lowest markets available. For someone from Arizona like Matthews along with every other NHL player. And I really disagree with Bernmeister about the significance of "goodwill" and the "intangible" advantage he seems to think Arizona has. I don't think Arizona has, well, really any significant "intangible" advantage over any of these other larger markets. Actually, quite the opposite. I think Arizona has far, far fewer "intangibles" in comparison with NYC, Toronto or Chicago. But again, I don't understand how he is arriving at these conclusions about Arizona, Matthews or what he's actually basing them on. And it doesn't seem like I ever will understand lol. And I deeply do not believe these assumed "intangibles" actually exist in any meaningful way. If I had to guess, I would say perhaps Bern is very young and optimistic in general. Or possibly has some personal connection to Phoenix or Arizona. And I am not sure it's easy to understand the massive advantages NYC has unless you actually lived, worked and socialized within NYC and especially Manhattan. The type of person you meet regularly in NYC will generally provide more opportunity, let alone the massive amounts of celebrities, millionaires and billionaires that you would be socializing with or all the Wall Street and investment guys that absolutely love hockey and would be willing to befriend any Ranger player and help them out in terms of investment and opportunity. Along with the massive amounts of real estate at the very highest end of the spectrum that is available in NYC. But this is all just speculation about Bern and his theory. No disrespect to him. But I do think he is very wrong in this regard.

 

[brakeyawself]

It's necessary. I followed the Jets when they became Phoenix Coyotes. They moved to the desert with Teemu Selanne, Zaitsev, Keith Tkachuk, Teppo Numminen, Housley and Khabibulin etc. They've done nothing since then. Poor management and poor ownership have kept the franchise as relevant as Pluto to the NHL. Year after year of trying to make the playoffs at any cost, or pretending to, has kept the team spinning around in mediocrity and irrelevancy.

Finally they are doing the right thing and resetting the whole thing. Hopefully Bettman, Meruelo and GM Bill Armstrong have a good plan to find traction for this sorry franchise. There is a lot of promise in Arizona for hockey but they can't keep half-arsing their way around. Invest actual money into the franchise (gambling deal), restock with talent in the next few drafts and create a real franchise that can compete for the cup, not just be pleased with itself if it manages to slip into the playoffs every now and then for a participation prize.

Covid came at a bad time for the Coyotes new ownership, so that may have added a couple extra rough years, but that's also as good a time as any to reboot and emerge fresh when the lean years are over.

That's all fair. But it's still Arizona. All the correct choices and remodeling in the world won't change that. And it won't change the drastic distinction between Arizona as a hockey market compared to Toronto, NYC, Montreal, Chicago etc.. I don't agree that there are superior "intangibles" in Arizona. In fact, I think it's objectively the exact opposite. And that Arizona provides some of the least opportunity to hockey players out of all the NHL markets. Even for someone who is from Arizona like AM.

But they are a rebuilding team and I wish them the best. It's just that all the makeup in the world doesn't transform a Pug into a Victoria Secret model.

 

[bobbop]

It's necessary. I followed the Jets when they became Phoenix Coyotes. They moved to the desert with Teemu Selanne, Zaitsev, Keith Tkachuk, Teppo Numminen, Housley and Khabibulin etc. They've done nothing since then. Poor management and poor ownership have kept the franchise as relevant as Pluto to the NHL. Year after year of trying to make the playoffs at any cost, or pretending to, has kept the team spinning around in mediocrity and irrelevancy.

Finally they are doing the right thing and resetting the whole thing. Hopefully Bettman, Meruelo and GM Bill Armstrong have a good plan to find traction for this sorry franchise. There is a lot of promise in Arizona for hockey but they can't keep half-arsing their way around. Invest actual money into the franchise (gambling deal), restock with talent in the next few drafts and create a real franchise that can compete for the cup, not just be pleased with itself if it manages to slip into the playoffs every now and then for a participation prize.

Covid came at a bad time for the Coyotes new ownership, so that may have added a couple extra rough years, but that's also as good a time as any to reboot and emerge fresh when the lean years are over.

Don’t get your hopes up. I live in Arizona and gave up my tickets because the product has been so bad. Merullo is paper rich and cash poor and his ownership has been a train wreck so far. The 2022 draft won’t be ready to pay off for 5-6 years.

 

[CLW]

Don’t get your hopes up. I live in Arizona and gave up my tickets because the product has been so bad. Merullo is paper rich and cash poor and his ownership has been a train wreck so far. The 2022 draft won’t be ready to pay off for 5-6 years.

I remember when the Coyotes had luminaries such as Craig Janney and Mika Alatalo. The team has gone nowhere since forever. The best (only?) hope for the franchise is that Meruelo is simply smart with his money at at time the franchise needs to rebuild in any case. It's true that it will take years to get the team strong enough to compete for real, but that is what a rebuild is. This time they have to get it right. Picking up genuine talent in 2022 and 2023 is a good start, then hopefully the economy is back strong in a few years and Meruelo is ready to spend again. Bill Armstrong at least seems competent after years of mismanagement.

 

[brakeyawself]

Don’t get your hopes up. I live in Arizona and gave up my tickets because the product has been so bad. Merullo is paper rich and cash poor and his ownership has been a train wreck so far. The 2022 draft won’t be ready to pay off for 5-6 years.

Yup. No chance AM chooses to go there. Just not happening. He has his choice of destinations. I don't care if his grandma still lives in Phoenix or whatever. He can visit her in the offseason.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If Buf is willing to retain 5 mill I see it more likely as JE or KK not JE or Zibs.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Eichel.

Mika has had an unsustainable shooting percentage and several concussions in his career. He’s as much of a hazard as Eichel is.

Eichel will absolutely make the players around him better.

 

[duhmetreE]

Matthews will resign with Toronto, unless Toronto have other plans, which is highly unlikely.

Matthews will not re-sign in Toronto.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Matthews will not re-sign in Toronto.

where do you think he’s going? I see the timing of his contract matches up pretty well with the expiring contracts in Pittsburgh.

 

[duhmetreE]

where do you think he’s going? I see the timing of his contract matches up pretty well with the expiring contracts in Pittsburgh.

Out of Canada

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Matthews will not re-sign in Toronto.

Yes he will. Why wouldn’t he? Between top dollar salary and endorsements he wouldn’t make more money anywhere else in the league.