POLL: Was 2017 Draft a Bust?

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Rasmussen at 19 is ahead of Mantha at 20. What will he be by 23? If he isn't a bust then the draft isn't. It takes 5 years for a redraft to be accurate and 6'6" guys are not known to hit their stride early. Ottawa took a similar tree with their 1st in 2016. Rasmussen already appears to be ahead of him but both could be very good players.

Mantha was a much better prospect than Rasmussen; Rasmussen making the NHL at 19 was not an uncontroversial decision that remains divisive.

 

[Octopus]

IMO, 5 of the picks are still propects. Ras, Lindstrom, Kotkansalo, Petruzelli and Webb. Unless the others are late bloomers I don’t see how they are under consideration of an ELC. I saw Gallant play recently and found him slow so he hasn’t quite rebounded from a major leg injury and Setkov was god-awful at the WJC but the Wings are still high on him apparently.

Long story short, Ras has good hands and a potential 40 pt. guy at most. He has a long way to go in terms of body strength. He gets knocked off the puck quite easily.
He lacks confidence and is afraid to carry the puck so that will come when he is more solid a player.

I hope they get a defense first D out of the 3 players I mentioned above. They need one to complement the skating/offensive minded ones they currently have.

 

[roman star]

octo one thing ide add about ras is he has monster level determination / intensity , leader level stuff . and for a guy that tall it takes longer to grow coordinated . mean while hes smart and soft handed enough , not elite but decent . it adds up to imo a new and improved monster level demolition man , a total net front nightmare once he coordinates and bulks out . new nick name approaching ;-)

 

[newfy]

IMO, 5 of the picks are still propects. Ras, Lindstrom, Kotkansalo, Petruzelli and Webb. Unless the others are late bloomers I don’t see how they are under consideration of an ELC. I saw Gallant play recently and found him slow so he hasn’t quite rebounded from a major leg injury and Setkov was god-awful at the WJC but the Wings are still high on him apparently.

Long story short, Ras has good hands and a potential 40 pt. guy at most. He has a long way to go in terms of body strength. He gets knocked off the puck quite easily.
He lacks confidence and is afraid to carry the puck so that will come when he is more solid a player.

I hope they get a defense first D out of the 3 players I mentioned above. They need one to complement the skating/offensive minded ones they currently have.

40 point guy at most? So at best the 19 year ld who just played a full NHL season basically can have the offense of Helm and wont reach the level of Abdelkader?

HFboards is tough to read sometimes

 

[Tetsuo]

40 point guy at most? So at best the 19 year ld who just played a full NHL season basically can have the offense of Helm and wont reach the level of Abdelkader?

HFboards is tough to read sometimes

It's pretty clear to me that Ras will be a consistent 60 point player once he figures it out. He will also contribute to the stat sheet more than he will be credited due to being the default net-front guy on whatever line he's on (PP or otherwise) and hopefully becoming a tough customer in board battles/dirty areas once he rounds out. While he may be a little reliant on the PP for direct scoring himself, he will also make the PP more dangerous/successful. Which is just fine by me because our PP has been garbage for awhile now.

 

[Henkka]

Tyler Wright said after the draft, that they took some character guys to push other skill guys more on the competition for future spots. So they didn't go 100% after pure skill with every player on that draft (could see 4-5 guys taken with more of character reasons than skill reasons), but I understand this ideology. It's same as work community, different personalities will push each others to be better.

I have experimented that by myself and seen how it works in real life.

And it was good (weak) draft to get this kind of guys on the mix and sacrifise some extra picks, because there wasn't much talent on the lower rounds.

There is a clear logic to build a community, which seem to be too tough for some to understand, if you are too one-dimensional thinker.

 

[ricky0034]

Tyler Wright said after the draft, that they took some character guys to push other skill guys more on the competition for future spots. So they didn't go 100% after pure skill with every player on that draft (could see 4-5 guys taken with more of character reasons than skill reasons), but I understand this ideology. It's same as work community, different personalities will push each others to be better.

I have experimented that by myself and seen how it works in real life.

And it was good (weak) draft to get this kind of guys on the mix and sacrifise some extra picks, because there wasn't much talent on the lower rounds.

There is a clear logic to build a community, which seem to be too tough for some to understand, if you are too one-dimensional thinker.

what good is having "different personalities to push others to be better" when those "different personalities" will never be good enough to even make the NHL to begin with?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Too early to say...also I found this PRICELSS PIC today: 1990, "The #redarmy was in town to play the @detroitredwings as two captains would face off. After that game, Vladimir Konstantinov would have a meeting would forever change his life. See the story in #therussianfive!"

 

[Shaman464]

Hronek anf Bert look pretty good so they aren’t uniformingly busting. Can a second rounder even bust? And we still have some second rounders with potential in the pipeline.

Individuals? Probably not, but a team will have a rate of success in drafting in the 2nd round. Given the odds, drafting in the early 2nd round, a team should be able to get X number of players from that round. If they fail to reach that bench they are failing at drafting.

 

[Dotter]

Individuals? Probably not, but a team will have a rate of success in drafting in the 2nd round. Given the odds, drafting in the early 2nd round, a team should be able to get X number of players from that round. If they fail to reach that bench they are failing at drafting.

How many and in what span?

 

[Oddbob]

definitely

11 picks,one of them a top 10 and the best case scenario at this point is a second line winger and a bottom pairing defenseman

and that's if things go well

How is that the best scenario with regards to Ras????? WAY TOO EARLY to know what he can become!

 

[dragonballgtz]

Wasn't that whole 2017 draft thought of as weak to begin with? This just makes me believe even more that we need to move Nyquist, Howard, and Jensen for picks.

 

[ricky0034]

How is that the best scenario with regards to Ras????? WAY TOO EARLY to know what he can become!

part talent part play style

he just doesn't have the upside to ever be a guy that really belongs on the first line

 

[Oddbob]

part talent part play style

he just doesn't have the upside to ever be a guy that really belongs on the first line

Why, just because he doesn't have exciting deking ability, great passing! He is still very light for a 6'6" player, if he adds 10-15 pounds and learns to play with more confidence in his size he is going to be decent in my opinion, and I don't think 40 pts is his absolute best bet. He could easily be a 60 Pt player some day, way too soon to tell, based on his 19 year old rookie season, where he plays very little for the most part.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

40 point guy at most? So at best the 19 year ld who just played a full NHL season basically can have the offense of Helm and wont reach the level of Abdelkader?

HFboards is tough to read sometimes

It’s a f***en travesty we passed on brannstrom,Foote,valimaki for Rasmussen just because he’s a f***en giant

 

[Ezekial]

It’s a ****en travesty we passed on brannstrom,Foote,valimaki for Rasmussen just because he’s a ****en giant

It's a f***in travesty very few want to give a kid a chance to develop and think he's a no skill big body who's only attribute is standing in front of the goalie.

 

[Shaman464]

How many and in what span?

If you're drafting in the 30s and you're not getting an NHLer half the time, its a bad thing. If you're drafting in the 50s or 60s and you're not getting one 1 in 4 times, its a bad thing.

 

[Dotter]

If you're drafting in the 30s and you're not getting an NHLer half the time, its a bad thing. If you're drafting in the 50s or 60s and you're not getting one 1 in 4 times, its a bad thing.

Then looks like Detroit is batting 100% from 2011 to 2014 with:

Xavier Ouellet (active NHLer)
Frk (should easily play over 100 NHL games)
Tyler Bertuzzi
Christopher Ehn

So all in all, you should be very impressed.

 

[Ezekial]

Then looks like Detroit is batting 100% from 2011 to 2014 with:

Xavier Ouellet (active NHLer)
Frk (should easily play over 100 NHL games)
Tyler Bertuzzi
Christopher Ehn

So all in all, you should be very impressed.

XO is an active AHLer, good pick at 48. He would've been so good if he could skate.
Frk, he'll possibly play 100 games, he certainly won't play 150. Not a bad flier at 49, though.
Bert is a great player, great pick
I love Ehn, great pick at 106.
(this is more directed at other posts than this one)
But generally, you can't expect to get an NHLer from every draft in the 3-7, we had gotten lucky in that regard compared to home runs in the late 1st early second in those leaner draft years. Picking 4 players from 70-100 you should be lucky to get 1 NHLer in that range, your draft shouldn't negated because you didn't hit on any of them. There's a couple guys we drafted in the third that could develop into NHLers. It's not like we drafted KK in the third because of his offensive firepower of 12 points in 47 USHL games. Goalies are weird, KP is still a viable prospect. It's a frustrating thread, and to be honest poll result, to think you could define a draft a year and a half later is just so short sighted, especially a draft in which we drafted 6 defenseman and a goalie and had all of 2 top 70 picks.

 

[Electric Eric]

Think it's to early to be arguing if the draft was a bust or not. IMO its certainly bland skill wise but that doesn't mean we might not get some good depth out of it.


If anything we should be arguing about the 2015 draft. Now that one looks like a bust to me.

 

[RedWingzz]

40 point guy at most? So at best the 19 year ld who just played a full NHL season basically can have the offense of Helm and wont reach the level of Abdelkader?

HFboards is tough to read sometimes

I think maybe what he meant to say is that Ras will average about 40 points per season, which I agree with. I don't see the high-end offense, and I don't think he ever puts up anything in the 60s. I mean guys like Filppula, Hudler, Tatar and Nyquist have always been seen as offensive minded players, and none of them have ever put up 60+ points (with the exception of Fil once, and probably Nyquist this year)

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Tyler Wright said after the draft, that they took some character guys to push other skill guys more on the competition for future spots. So they didn't go 100% after pure skill with every player on that draft (could see 4-5 guys taken with more of character reasons than skill reasons), but I understand this ideology. It's same as work community, different personalities will push each others to be better.

If the players don't get signed to ELCs how can they contribute to the culture of a team? I understand the idea of wanting to go after players with "strong intangibles" and I think it is a complete waste of a teams resources. You can sign those types of players for under 2M every year in free agency, they're readily available. So why is a team focusing on trying to draft these types of players when the non readily available players, top line talent, cost so much more to acquire.

I don't have any issue with players becoming 3rd or 4th liners or 3rd pairing dman, those are all possible outcomes in terms of development. My issue, and I assume many others, is the fact that the Wings decided to draft players that they feel are "safe" but in reality are not much safer than typical skilled players; who, should they make it to the NHL will provide little more value than a FA would be able to do. The Wings were inefficient with their assets and during a rebuild how efficient you are with your assets is what can make or break said rebuild. It is almost essential for any rebuild to to hit on non 1st or 2nd round picks and it has been 7 years since we've last hit on one.

I have experimented that by myself and seen how it works in real life.

And it was good (weak) draft to get this kind of guys on the mix and sacrifise some extra picks, because there wasn't much talent on the lower rounds.

There is a clear logic to build a community, which seem to be too tough for some to understand, if you are too one-dimensional thinker.

But there was and there always is talent in the lower rounds. I'm not going to list the players drafted from the 3rd round in '17 that have NHL upside, say top 6/9 or 2nd pairing, but you can review the 2017 draft and you'll see plenty of players that have that level of upside. This idea of building a "community" is ridiculous and the idea that a team would actively select players of lesser skill to foster it should have the fans of that team very concerned. In a draft the players with the best chance of success will get selected early in the draft; after that the variance opens up and it becomes a random mess, being able to even select an NHL player is hard so why aim for just a depth piece? The goal when drafting should be to try and gain as much excess value from this process as they can and attempt to select players that can contribute to your team in a meaningful way. As we've progressed into this era of data and efficiency based decision making our drafts should begin to implement some of what has been learned from looking at previous years of data.

From an excess value perspective, it is more beneficial to get 1 top tier player every 2 or 3 drafts than it is to get 4 or 5 average players over that same time frame. This article does an excellent job of explaining my point. If a team was to commit to this sort of strategy they may not get an NHL player every draft but should they hit on a pick or multiple picks they would be rewarded with a steep discount on talent for 7 years until the player reaches FA.

Think it's to early to be arguing if the draft was a bust or not. IMO its certainly bland skill wise but that doesn't mean we might not get some good depth out of it.


If anything we should be arguing about the 2015 draft. Now that one looks like a bust to me.

I don't think it's too early to discuss it because almost 1/2 the draft won't be receiving ELCs after this season and that's a problem given this draft was billed as a draft that should accumulate depth pieces. It's a bit counter-intuitive but a lot of the time players that are billed as safe or low ceiling may not be any safer than their skilled counterparts. Again, if your goal of the draft is to get depth pieces, why not trade the 3rd round pick for somebody such as Hagelin or sign Brett Connolly as a FA for a sub 1M deal? Depth pieces are cheap to acquire and should not be the focus of a teams draft.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Too early to say, but I think the 2017 draft in general was a weak one for the whole league.