Confirmed with Link: POJ traded to Penguins for Future Considerations

[Stupendous Yappi]

I don't agree with Armstrong there. And I'd argue Armstring is being a being a bit of a salesman with it mkre than he believes it matters. If it was soo important we be competitive for the young players. Why has he been filling holes with the cheapest possible options until now?

We went dumpster diving this off season prior to the offer sheets. Our guiding principle was taking bad contracts to get free players or players with picks who may turn things around. Now suddenly he wants to be competitive when we entered the season with 1 top 6 C? I do not buy it.

You were just complaining about him not trading Binnington and Buchnevich. He’s been consistent with this philosophy. But you can’t conjure good players out of the air. Signing free agents to short contracts is something EVERY GM needs to do to fill out the roster. You make good arguments a lot of the time, but this time it’s irrational.

 

[Reality Czech]

People that never played don't value the importance if a winning culture and playing important games.

It's easy for a fan to say the team should just tank and lose games but most professional athletes hate losing and just want to feel like management has their back. By letting the team flounder and not attempt to make short term moves to help the team when possible would send a terrible message and really hurt team morale.

Army is pretty open and honest when discussing most of his moves so I'm not sure why people just don't take him at his word. People don't have to agree with his decisions but there shouldn't be any confusion about why he makes the moves he does. A lot of fans seem to think if the team isn't going to contend for a Cup then why even try to win, but that's certainly not how players, GMs and coaches think.

 

[Majorityof1]

It's easy for a fan to say the team should just tank and lose games but most professional athletes hate losing and just want to feel like management has their back. By letting the team flounder and not attempt to make short term moves to help the team when possible would send a terrible message and really hurt team morale.

Army is pretty open and honest when discussing most of his moves so I'm not sure why people just don't take him at his word. People don't have to agree with his decisions but there shouldn't be any confusion about why he makes the moves he does. A lot of fans seem to think if the team isn't going to contend for a Cup then why even try to win, but that's certainly not how players, GMs and coaches think.

If you think Army is open and honest then I'm sure he has some lovely ocean-front property in St. Louis he'd be happy to sell you. He's one cagey MF. Everything he says is calculated. I don't think he lies but he never gives you the whole truth.

Army said there was a plan, he wasn't going to rush and he was going to focus on players that fit within the core. He kept reiterating they were sticking to the plan. Then he makes a mid-season trade for one of the oldest players on the team. If he's so open and honest, why did he trade for a 33 year old with less than 2 years when he said he was looking for 26 year olds with term?

The players know it's a business and know it's a cap league. They understand sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward. If they didn't every team that has ever been a seller at the deadline would be mired in permanent losing. The Blues traded away players at the deadline the 2 deadlines in a row before winning the cup, both years they were in the playoff hunt (Shatty in 2017, Stasny in 2018). Did the players suddenly quit because the GM didn't believe in them?

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

If you think Army is open and honest then I'm sure he has some lovely ocean-front property in St. Louis he'd be happy to sell you. He's one cagey MF. Everything he says is calculated. I don't think he lies but he never gives you the whole truth.

Army said there was a plan, he wasn't going to rush and he was going to focus on players that fit within the core. He kept reiterating they were sticking to the plan. Then he makes a mid-season trade for one of the oldest players on the team. If he's so open and honest, why did he trade for a 33 year old with less than 2 years when he said he was looking for 26 year olds with term?

The players know it's a business and know it's a cap league. They understand sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward. If they didn't every team that has ever been a seller at the deadline would be mired in permanent losing. The Blues traded away players at the deadline the 2 deadlines in a row before winning the cup, both years they were in the playoff hunt (Shatty in 2017, Stasny in 2018). Did the players suddenly quit because the GM didn't believe in them?

I see no contradiction at all. Acquiring Fowler for a small cost and short term is consistent with building a future core. Fowler won’t be in anyone’s way. And it lets THIS year’s team have a chance to try and win.

He has also waived Kapanen and basically waived POJ. None of these players block a young guy or prevent the team from acquiring a young guy with term. And he continues to avoid rushing developing players until they’re ready.

My criticism of your argument is that all of these moves are internally consistent with his vision and with the execution of this plan. You can fault the core he’s assembling and point out the still-present holes that need to be addressed. Thats a pretty solid argument, and includes answers he hasn’t yet found. But signing short term contracts to guys to fill out the roster and trading for a veteran defenseman to optimize their chances now doesn’t nullify the larger plan. It’s intelligent GMing. It shows respect to your players and coaches (and fans) that you’re trying to win. It helps the coach instill the type of culture of competitiveness that young guys need to learn as they become professionals.

 

[TheOrganist]

I see no contradiction at all. Acquiring Fowler for a small cost and short term is consistent with building a future core. Fowler won’t be in anyone’s way. And it lets THIS year’s team have a chance to try and win.

He has also waived Kapanen and basically waived POJ. None of these players block a young guy or prevent the team from acquiring a young guy with term. And he continues to avoid rushing developing players until they’re ready.

My criticism of your argument is that all of these moves are internally consistent with his vision and with the execution of this plan. You can fault the core he’s assembling and point out the still-present holes that need to be addressed. Thats a pretty solid argument, and includes answers he hasn’t yet found. But signing short term contracts to guys to fill out the roster and trading for a veteran defenseman to optimize their chances now doesn’t nullify the larger plan. It’s intelligent GMing. It shows respect to your players and coaches (and fans) that you’re trying to win. It helps the coach instill the type of culture of competitiveness that young guys need to learn as they become professionals.

Well said. And this doesn't seem difficult to comprehend...Armstrong has pretty much laid it out there. Our friend is just being intentionally obtuse.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Well said. And this doesn't seem difficult to comprehend...Armstrong has pretty much laid it out there. Our friend is just being intentionally obtuse.

It goes waaaaaaay beyond mere obtuseness.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

If you think Army is open and honest then I'm sure he has some lovely ocean-front property in St. Louis he'd be happy to sell you. He's one cagey MF. Everything he says is calculated. I don't think he lies but he never gives you the whole truth.

Army said there was a plan, he wasn't going to rush and he was going to focus on players that fit within the core. He kept reiterating they were sticking to the plan. Then he makes a mid-season trade for one of the oldest players on the team. If he's so open and honest, why did he trade for a 33 year old with less than 2 years when he said he was looking for 26 year olds with term?

The players know it's a business and know it's a cap league. They understand sometimes you need to take a step back to go forward. If they didn't every team that has ever been a seller at the deadline would be mired in permanent losing. The Blues traded away players at the deadline the 2 deadlines in a row before winning the cup, both years they were in the playoff hunt (Shatty in 2017, Stasny in 2018). Did the players suddenly quit because the GM didn't believe in them?

Minor point but Schenn didn’t like the Stastny trade and openly spoke out about that during an Interview. I believe it was an intermission interview on the Blues broadcast the next game if I recall correctly. While certainly selling at the deadline doesn't make an organization a permanent losing one; I hope we can both agree that the direction management takes in any origination affects morale of that organization. If management sells it sends a signal they believe the team is not good enough to win it all. Selling at the deadline might not change an organization long term morale but it certainly send an immediate signal for the immediate future.

I don’t see how he is deviating, as you state he doesn’t want to rush players; Fowler taking the worst assignments with Parayko insulates Broberg and allow him to continue developing. I am sure it was never the plan for Leddy to be placed on IR. Sometime you have to change the plan. Semper Gumby.

Edit: Broberg is the most important piece right now of this re-whatever imho. Building from the back end out is the proper way to build a contender. Defenseman take longer to develop and securing a 1D before getting the 1C locked down in the draft is the way to go. Unfortunately with Thomas already being on the Blues we weren’t able to do it that way. Stealing 4 years of development from Edmonton gets the core more inline. A second for Fowler and the loss of POJ for nothing is a small price to pay to ensure Broberg develops properly into a 1D.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

POJ knows their system and he is better than Graves or Shea.

Thought that was ludicrous but then just looked at Graves' numbers. He was +34 and contributed offensively two years ago with New Jersey.

Has his game fallen or is it just a case of players like Letang and Karlsson monopolizing the offensive roles?