Post-Game Talk: Point taken

[Stoneman89]

What's that saying about who is supposed to be your best penalty killer?

I think you're defeating your own argument. Our PK has been top notch the last few months, statistically at or near the top of the league.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

He's barely .902 here, anyone who thinks he'd be .900+ in Anaheim is smoking crack, lol. Like I'm sorry you can believe that horse shit if you want, but don't try to sell it to me with a straight face because I ain't buying it.

Our defensive system basically gets the same results from Calvin Pickard (.901) and lets be f***ing honest, he's an AHL goaltender.

Both these guys are living a charmed life here behind an elite system that insulates them hard, if they were left to fend on a non-elite team they'd both be in serious, serious trouble.

Nobody is buying your bullshit.

All you do is whine like a little bitch day after day about the goaltending and constantly move the goal posts with your endless garbage posting.

 

[Lacaar]

The Oilers lost because they can't put the puck in the ocean.

I'm going to give them the benefit that the flu is ripping through. They played a decent game considering.
This team does one thing really well. Make the other goalie look good
We make every goalie look like an all star.

I would describe the Oilers I'd say "They're a really strong hockey team that gets average goaltending and has a hard time converting the numerous chances they create.

 

[Missing smitty]

They had if I’m not mistaken the 4th worst penalty kill ever through 14 games. That was a huge part of our goals against right there and we were one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. So yes they were garbage.

Who is the most important penalty killer?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

He can have his hot stretches and cold stretches here and there we know that. When the team is playing in sync defensively, which usually takes about a month to kick in after a 3+ month layoff, we can make just about any goalie look decent.

Calvin Pickard has about the same numbers as Stu playing behind the same team since he has come here.

It's our systems play that is the star, not a goalie. Our system can insulate any goalie even a literal AHL guy.

If this team ever got a real upgrade, it would be lights out, but the management is one of the dumber management groups in the NHL and that is the real thing probably standing in McDavid's way to a Cup.

Blah blah blah...you were crying last year too at this time that "goaltending wasn't good enough" only to be dead silent when they made the Cup final

 

[Missing smitty]

Skinner is getting love from the organization and isn't being thrown to wolves. Pickard can easily start bulk of the games going forward with Skinner getting easier workload but that is not what Skinner wants. He wants his 8M per deal as a true starting goalie.

Skinner outside of the shootout had a very strong game. The hate here on the boards is just too strong to give him the credit

I think the problem is that you always have people on both extremes.

He's not a garbage goaltender, he's also not in the top tier.

Saying he was the reason they lost last night is wrong, but the guys who defended him after the Capitals game were also wrong. 2 things can be right at the same time.

The team is absolutely throwing him to the wolves. He's not a clear starter. He needs to be part of a tandem and he would have been if they hadn't listened to Schwartz. "Good enough" goaltending doesn't work, just ask the Red Wings in '06.

 

[tardigrade81]

View attachment 970239

And I thought I was a nerd because I have a massive spiderman and The Flash comic collection lol

 

[Juxta Position]

Skinner would get cooked playing in Utah or Anaheim, lol, love that you guys who want to make this point convienantly leave that out.

You think he would be a .902 in Utah or Anaheim? What are you smoking. He would be like .890 in Anaheim and wouldn't even be the back up there, Dostal and Gibson would be ahead of him. In Utah he's maybe the back up but only because Ingram has been injured.

Skinner isn't "average". 27th in save percentage on an actual top team with an actual top defensive system is not average, it's below average.

The .902 that he has here is actually an inflated number (ditto for Pickard). He wouldn't have that number on most other teams.

this entire post is speculative nonsense.

Utah and Anaheim give up more shots relative to the Oilers, Skinner has historically had better numbers when he faces more shots, so according to the evidence he would have better numbers playing on one of those teams.

Then posters such as yourself would be clamoring to trade for Skinner because whatever adequate goalie the Oilers had wouldn't be good enough for you and you would be praising Skinner because of how good his numbers are facing all those shots.

The moral here is that posters like you will always have a "grass is greener" mentality no matter who the Oilers have. It used to be exhausting reading, but now it's moved into the hilariously ridiculous.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

this entire post is speculative nonsense.

Utah and Anaheim give up more shots relative to the Oilers, Skinner has historically had better numbers when he faces more shots, so according to the evidence he would have better numbers playing on one of those teams.

Then posters such as yourself would be clamoring to trade for Skinner because whatever adequate goalie the Oilers had wouldn't be good enough for you and you would be praising Skinner because of how good his numbers are facing all those shots.

The moral here is that posters like you will always have a "grass is greener" mentality no matter who the Oilers have. It used to be exhausting reading, but now it's moved into the hilariously ridiculous.

There’s so many variables it’s impossible to say how any one goalie will respond in different situations on different teams, which makes trying to assert opinions as fact just hilarious.

While other teams defensive structures might not be as good as the Oilers, as you mentioned many goalies actually do better facing more shots and getting more action rather then being idle for long periods and then having to come up with big time saves on things like breakaways or in chance bursts. Another thing is the mental aspect of the game. Playing for a bottom half team with no real expectations of being competitive is a lot easier than playing for a cup contender with sky high expectations and the pressure that comes along with that.

 

[LTIR]

I think the problem is that you always have people on both extremes.

He's not a garbage goaltender, he's also not in the top tier.

Saying he was the reason they lost last night is wrong, but the guys who defended him after the Capitals game were also wrong. 2 things can be right at the same time.

The team is absolutely throwing him to the wolves. He's not a clear starter. He needs to be part of a tandem and he would have been if they hadn't listened to Schwartz. "Good enough" goaltending doesn't work, just ask the Red Wings in '06.

I would buy this if our backup wasn't 9-1 in his last 10 GP and we were being forced to throw Skinner into games because there was no option.

The WSH loss is the only time Skinner has lost back to back games since the first 2 games of the season.

Find a clear upgrade on Pickard and I am good with adding a 1A goalie. No, I don't think Gibson is a guarenteed upgrade over Skinner or even Packard

 

[McShogun99]

The Oilers lost because they can't put the puck in the ocean.

I'm going to give them the benefit that the flu is ripping through. They played a decent game considering.
This team does one thing really well. Make the other goalie look good
We make every goalie look like an all star.

I would describe the Oilers I'd say "They're a really strong hockey team that gets average goaltending and has a hard time converting the numerous chances they create.

The flu bug was probably why a lot of the players seemed gassed after the first period. Most average people book off sick to their office job when they get a flu. These guys have to perform at elite levels over a 3 hour time frame.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I think the problem is that you always have people on both extremes.

He's not a garbage goaltender, he's also not in the top tier.

Saying he was the reason they lost last night is wrong, but the guys who defended him after the Capitals game were also wrong. 2 things can be right at the same time.

The team is absolutely throwing him to the wolves. He's not a clear starter. He needs to be part of a tandem and he would have been if they hadn't listened to Schwartz. "Good enough" goaltending doesn't work, just ask the Red Wings in '06.

Yup

Skinner is exactly what we pay him to be. 35th highest paid goalie in the league.
His salary comparables are:

MA Fleury
Cam Talbot
Alex Nedelikovic
Dan Vladar
Connor Ingram

We're blowing the bank on one of the most stacked offenses in the league, and we're doing that by cutting back on spending on our defense and goaltending.

Skinner is a wash with all the goalies listed above. He's fair value at $2.5.



The problem with Gibson isn't that we're not sure he's better than Skinner. The problem is his cap-hit is in line with guys like Binnington, Saros, and Thompson who we KNOW are better than Skinner.

 

[Soundwave]

this entire post is speculative nonsense.

Utah and Anaheim give up more shots relative to the Oilers, Skinner has historically had better numbers when he faces more shots, so according to the evidence he would have better numbers playing on one of those teams.

Then posters such as yourself would be clamoring to trade for Skinner because whatever adequate goalie the Oilers had wouldn't be good enough for you and you would be praising Skinner because of how good his numbers are facing all those shots.

The moral here is that posters like you will always have a "grass is greener" mentality no matter who the Oilers have. It used to be exhausting reading, but now it's moved into the hilariously ridiculous.

Do you think Calvin Pickard is something special too? Because he has virtually identical numbers to Skinner since he's been here.

I've said it many times and not just related to goaltending that our defensive structure is elite, it's the main reason we made a Cup Final and I said that even early in the season when there was a fairly large crowd on this board that was crying that our D would get badly exposed because Emberson/Stetcher/etc. weren't sexy enough and losing even Desharnais would be a massive loss.

Well guess what? The D is fine, at game 50 they are the 6th best in the league for GA. Because it's a system-driven setup which is elite. The goalies here benefit massively from that, if you put a higher talent goalie here, there is a very good chance they would take off like Roloson did in 2006 on that team. Only difference is this team is more talented than that 2006 club overall.

It's not "speculative" to say our elite systems play defensively buoys the goalies here, otherwise you can't say any freaking thing. You could say "well you can't say McDavid is better than Marner! It's all speculation! They don't play on the same team! Who knows maybe McDavid would have less points than Marner, it's all speculation! We can't know for sure!" ... when you're getting into shit like this as your defense, just give it up. You're grasping at straws.

 

[K1984]

What's that saying about who is supposed to be your best penalty killer?

What's that saying about who is supposed to be the best penalty killer when the penalty kill has been razor sharp ever since?

 

[gretzkyoilers]

Maybe the worst game I have seen McDavid play.

Yup. Had had some flashes of himself but overall he looked tired and not mentally there. His puck fumble in OT and the lame shootout attempt (we're seen him just roof the puck) indicates he is sick, injured, or just is "off." I hope he's OK...

 

[Drivesaitl]

That meter isn’t always representative.

Oilers gave up two breakaways in the second and multiple defensive breakdowns in the first and third.

This loss isn’t on Skinner.

Skinner played reasonably. On the whole probably one of his good games. That said the two shots from outside zone that gave him trouble scared me. The shootout was a loss soon as it happened.

But to your post, and a lot of people stating this "The OIlers giving up breakaways" and not getting any. Well this is the run of hockey. The team pursuing the game that has the puck and Ozone pressure almost constantly isn't the team getting the breakaways. The Oilers are the team playing extended stretches so dominate that it looks like a man advantage all the time. The ONLY thing the Wings were trying for last night was jail break counters. So yes they sprung a couple. They were inept even at that.

Lets not pretend in some way that other clubs are playing better. Cory Perry setup an ice fishing tent on Center Ice last game and we fed him and there wasn't an opponent within 30ft of him. Sure Skinner see's a breakaway once in awhile. So does Pickard. At least Skinner got one of them yesterday, he's not very good at those.

The meter was quite representative of the game I saw. The Oilers ran the Wings show almost all night. The Wings were making puck errors that were horrendous compared to what the Oil were giving up.

Thing is EVERY meter suggested the Oilers dominated last night. They did. This isn't football where a breakaway or odd man rush should be considered almost an automatic goal. Most of them get stopped. We just don't see that here with our goalies.

 

[K1984]

LOVE that "who's your best penalty killer?" gets trotted out to explain why the PK was ass in October, but no mention of the "best penalty killer" when its been at or near the top of the league ever since.

I'm going to get ahead of it and guess that Skinner was our best penalty killer in October, but someone else took the mantle from him after that because he couldn't possibly be a reason it improved.

 

[Soundwave]

The Oilers are an elite defensive team. They would be better, probably close to unbeatable with a better goalie. Doesn't even have to be like Hasek.

There's just some people that want to smash their head against a wall before they will admit that.

This is really actually not much different from the 2006 team that Roloson exploded behind, you put a goalie with that kind of talent level (and it's not like Roloson was a Vezina tier/all world/All-Star every year goalie) and the sky is the limit.

As is, the Oilers if they face like Vegas in the playoffs, they better hope Adin Hill doesn't play as he usually does against us, because I doubt Skinner is up to the challenge of matching that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yup

Skinner is exactly what we pay him to be. 35th highest paid goalie in the league.
His salary comparables are:

MA Fleury
Cam Talbot
Alex Nedelikovic
Dan Vladar
Connor Ingram

We're blowing the bank on one of the most stacked offenses in the league, and we're doing that by cutting back on spending on our defense and goaltending.

Skinner is a wash with all the goalies listed above. He's fair value at $2.5.



The problem with Gibson isn't that we're not sure he's better than Skinner. The problem is his cap-hit is in line with guys like Binnington, Saros, and Thompson who we KNOW are better than Skinner.

1) Several NHL goalies that are far better than Skinner are paid equivalent or less.

2) A league wide comparison of goalie pay doesn't take into account the many goalies that are locked into contracts presently rather than Skinner who is at cusp of one and looking for increase. Reports are he's looking for an appreciable increase. Rendering all points about his pay probably invalid in future.

3)It should cause concern that the org is so high on Skinner, they see him as the only plan going forward and are priming the fanbase for a new deal. Everything emanating from the org and telecast is trying to shine Skinner as a must have fan favorite that the team dearly needs. Last night on the telecast they again attributed the team record to Skinner which is quite odd as Pickard has the much higher win %.

Personally my frustration is how bad the org is at evaluating goalies. With Skinner and Koski sure evident they like the Fridge/Freezers

 

[K1984]

The Oilers are an elite defensive team. They would be better, probably close to unbeatable with a better goalie. Doesn't even have to be like Hasek.

There's just some people that want to smash their head against a wall before they will admit that.

This is really actually not much different from the 2006 team that Roloson exploded behind, you put a goalie with that kind of talent level (and it's not like Roloson was a Vezina tier/all world/All-Star every year goalie) and the sky is the limit.

As is, the Oilers if they face like Vegas in the playoffs, they better hope Adin Hill doesn't play as he usually does against us, because I doubt Skinner is up to the challenge of matching that.

Yes, if the Oilers had a goalie in the tier of Hellebyuck they might have a few more wins. Just like if the Oilers had Mikko Rantanen on the wing with Leon instead of Arvidsson we would have a few more wins. Just like if we had Crosby at 3C we would have more wins. It's all irrelevant because it's a dumb hypothetical, but yes if the Oilers had some better players in some areas they would have more wins. Would we have more wins if he was flipped for a random goalie in the fat middle of the league's goalies? Probably not. Probably wouldn't even make a difference if your BF Hill was in net instead of him. Would probably be worse if anything.

The only thing anyone is smashing their head against the wall about is the insane insistence that Skinner is solely responsible for basically any loss, is the worst goalie in the league, is guaranteed to fail, isn't actually playing well for the vast majority of the season because he was bad in October, and at this point there is really no other reason we lose games than Skinner. It's insane.

Once again, Stuart Skinner does not score goals for this hockey team. If the Oilers can't score enough goals on Aiden Hill over a 7 game series, that is McDavid, Hyman, Draisaitl, Bouchard, RNH, etc, etc's problem and nobody else's. The goalie does not score goals on the other team. Skinner is not playing Aiden Hill, he's playing the Knights shooters. If we lose 4 games 2-1 because we couldn't score on Hill, that is not Stuart Skinner's fault.

 

[Lacaar]

The flu bug was probably why a lot of the players seemed gassed after the first period. Most average people book off sick to their office job when they get a flu. These guys have to perform at elite levels over a 3 hour time frame.

And they played pretty damn well considering.

There's only two things I can see stopping them.
1. Our goaltending.
2. Our finishing.

As often as Stu can get cold/ordinary this team kind of does the same with their goal scoring chances.

I think overall they're the best team in the league. If they got above average tending or finishing they'd be crushing it.
If they got both... nigh unstoppable haha.

Either way they're a ton of fun to watch and I'm just going to try and enjoy this time and keep yelling them when they gas a scoring chance.

 

[Cloned]

Skinner played reasonably. On the whole probably one of his good games. That said the two shots from outside zone that gave him trouble scared me. The shootout was a loss soon as it happened.

But to your post, and a lot of people stating this "The OIlers giving up breakaways" and not getting any. Well this is the run of hockey. The team pursuing the game that has the puck and Ozone pressure almost constantly isn't the team getting the breakaways. The Oilers are the team playing extended stretches so dominate that it looks like a man advantage all the time. The ONLY thing the Wings were trying for last night was jail break counters. So yes they sprung a couple. They were inept even at that.

Lets not pretend in some way that other clubs are playing better. Cory Perry setup an ice fishing tent on Center Ice last game and we fed him and there wasn't an opponent within 30ft of him. Sure Skinner see's a breakaway once in awhile. So does Pickard. At least Skinner got one of them yesterday, he's not very good at those.

The meter was quite representative of the game I saw. The Oilers ran the Wings show almost all night. The Wings were making puck errors that were horrendous compared to what the Oil were giving up.

Thing is EVERY meter suggested the Oilers dominated last night. They did. This isn't football where a breakaway or odd man rush should be considered almost an automatic goal. Most of them get stopped. We just don't see that here with our goalies.

Oilers dominated the first half of the game and were up 2-0.

They got sloppy and gave up breakaways, let the Wings back in it and the second half of the game was much more even.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Oilers dominated the first half of the game and were up 2-0.

They got sloppy and gave up breakaways, let the Wings back in it and the second half of the game was much more even.

You're not following my main point or avoiding it. The team with the constant Ozone pressure isn't going to be the one getting a lot of breakaways. The Wings played a Stinky McLellan game, same swill the Kings were serving up under him.

The Oilers were leading shot count 24-8 about 30some minutes into the game. Wings had a brief window in the 2nd when they were getting a lot. The Oilers outplayed the wings in first and third periods and maybe had a 5min lapse in the game.

Sloppy? The Oil were trying out Klingberg in an absolutely nothing game that means zilch in the standings. Non divisional non conference club that doesn't matter in the slightest.


Of Course Wings are on cusp and looking outside of a WC and had to have this game. How the ball rolls. Oilers generally could care less playing the Wings and given that, overall I think the team gave a reasonable account of themselves. Better finishing, sure, I'd like to see that. But several of our players are goal scoring incapable.

 

[K1984]

You're not following my main point or avoiding it. The team with the constant Ozone pressure isn't going to be the one getting a lot of breakaways. The Wings played a Stinky McLellan game, same swill the Kings were serving up under him.

The Oilers were leading shot count 24-8 about 30some minutes into the game. Wings had a brief window in the 2nd when they were getting a lot. The Oilers outplayed the wings in first and third periods and maybe had a 5min lapse in the game.

Sloppy? The Oil were trying out Klingberg in an absolutely nothing game that means zilch in the standings. Non divisional non conference club that doesn't matter in the slightest.


Of Course Wings are on cusp and looking outside of a WC and had to have this game. How the ball rolls. Oilers generally could care less playing the Wings and given that, overall I think the team gave a reasonable account of themselves. Better finishing, sure, I'd like to see that. But several of our players are goal scoring incapable.

I'm fine with the breakaways if the "constant o zone pressure" actually resulted in goals. Finishing is a legitimate problem with this group.

Right now we might need to back off the pressure, because we aren't scoring with it and are just bleeding freebies back the other way as a result.

 

[iCanada]

Skinner played reasonably. On the whole probably one of his good games. That said the two shots from outside zone that gave him trouble scared me. The shootout was a loss soon as it happened.

But to your post, and a lot of people stating this "The OIlers giving up breakaways" and not getting any. Well this is the run of hockey. The team pursuing the game that has the puck and Ozone pressure almost constantly isn't the team getting the breakaways. The Oilers are the team playing extended stretches so dominate that it looks like a man advantage all the time. The ONLY thing the Wings were trying for last night was jail break counters. So yes they sprung a couple. They were inept even at that.

Lets not pretend in some way that other clubs are playing better. Cory Perry setup an ice fishing tent on Center Ice last game and we fed him and there wasn't an opponent within 30ft of him. Sure Skinner see's a breakaway once in awhile. So does Pickard. At least Skinner got one of them yesterday, he's not very good at those.

The meter was quite representative of the game I saw. The Oilers ran the Wings show almost all night. The Wings were making puck errors that were horrendous compared to what the Oil were giving up.

Thing is EVERY meter suggested the Oilers dominated last night. They did. This isn't football where a breakaway or odd man rush should be considered almost an automatic goal. Most of them get stopped. We just don't see that here with our goalies.

I mentioned this last night - but I'll note it again - I watched the game last with a group of highly educated management types that are certified Oilers haters.

Their take away was that the Oilers are the class of the league. They're basically all but sure the Oilers will make another deep run unless Skinner plays like he did against the Canucks.

That said - I agree that Skinner was pretty good last night. Both of them, tbh.