Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Penguins 5, Lightning 3

[MtlPenFan]

Care to elaborate? We see a lot of criticism of HCDB systems, but not a lot of specifics to back it up. I loved his forechecking schematic tonight. His offensive zone gameplan was very good, played to our strengths and Tampa's weaknesses. His direction of the defense to pinch the puck-carrier in and the left-wing to cover the center drive worked well too.

What didn't work was his neutral-zone play and the breakout under pressure. I like that we don't do the stretch-pass as much, but we are losing too many puck battles on the high-wall.

Because the forwards are a little too high still. Gotta get down a little lower for those chips.

 

[shureshot66]

Hopefully the first of many.

 

[IcedCapp]

1) I think line matching is a great idea with Geno out, put the 1st line in the best position to score and do your best to keep the other team's top lines in check.

So why does Bylsma continue to insist that the 4th line is a shutdown line? He may WANT it to be, but it's not. I love Joe Vitale, but he, Tanner Glass, and Craig Adams aren't good enough to keep up with Stamkos. Even more unforgivable after Boucher made the switch and put St. Louis on the line with Stamkos.

2) Brooks Orpik is not playing good hockey right now. He's struggling to make a pass and I've lost track of how many times "his guy" has been free around the net to pick up the garbage... in just the past week. I don't know if he's injured or what, because he had a great start to the season, but he's been one of the weak links recently.

3) The second period... everyone is standing around, no one is moving their feet, and there's absolutely no support. They just seem to expect the puck to find its way to their sticks. It boggles the mind.

4) Derek Engelland has been struggling recently. Not sure what it is. Not retrieving the puck well and making some questionable decisions.

5) Tyler Kennedy is just a mess. I'm not necessarily on the "trade him" bandwagon - I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him moved for a better player... - but he needs to be sat. This is a situation where it's just a snowball effect: bad play, forcing it, coaches talking to him, fans and media getting on him, confidence is gone, just can't get out of his own way. It won't end pretty if they keep throwing him out there 13:00 a game.

6) Boarding. I swear the gentleman who Adams "boarded" turned into the hit at the last second. I hope the GMs adopt the hybrid bear hug rule proposed by Burke (and championed by Pierre).

______________

7) Beat Bennett is really progressing. I can't wait until he can get regular minutes with better players. It's hard for him to do much more than impress me with his awareness and positioning while playing with Tyler Kennedy.

8) Pascal Dupuis showed why KIRK, myself, and many others have a dream scenario that sees Dupuis being a fixture on the 3rd line. It's no knock to Dupuis. He'd be a key cog that would help the Pens reclaim the "Best 3rd Line in Hockey".

9) Joe Vitale is the greatest hockey player who has ever played hockey. His pass to Glass - who has come close a couple of times this year - made Sidney Crosby envious.

10) Paul Martin is worth every penny. I mean, he's worth more, really. He's been a 200ft player, good along the boards, good in front of the net, and adding in a surprising amount of offense.

11) Flower gave up 3 goals, but he kept out a bunch more. He "swims" a tad too much for my liking, but he gets the job done more often than not.

12) Some people made suggestive and/or sarcastic comments coming into this game, about how when Crosby has been out, Geno has picked it up, but the same isn't always true in reverse. With Malkin out, Crosby would have to play like the best player in the world, and he did. His vision is unreal. The way he sees the ice and can anticipate movements and outcomes well in advance is akin to a Grandmaster Chess player - only his pieces are never stationary.

The first line really tore it up in the 1st, but the 2nd seemed to throw everything off-kilter. I do think that KCN - if it sticks together - will blossom into a dominating line, but there are still some chemistry kinks to work out of the system.

 

[Stad]

This picture makes me smile.

 

[KIRK]

Because the forwards are a little too high still. Gotta get down a little lower for those chips.

So, is that systemic or execution?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Guys who wear odd numbers do so as a way to be seen as different. If you're Pat Kane, that's probably merited because a guy like him does stand out from the pack. If you're Richard Panik, well, throw a rock at any AHL team and you'll hit 5 of him.

I assume you don't mean odd as in every other number. So what makes a number odd? And explain why. THAT is my question.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Only once we got the two goal lead. Bylsma trusts his fourth liners over Sid with 1 goal leads. To me, that doesn't make sense.

he had Sutter, Cooke and Dupuis out there. They are our best defensive group.

 

[JTG]

This is one of those games I like to bring up for Fleury when people start talking about stats. I thought he played a really solid game. 0.900 SV% and a 3.00 GAA.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This is one of those games I like to bring up for Fleury when people start talking about stats. I thought he played a really solid game. 0.900 SV% and a 3.00 GAA.

stats aren't very good for a single game. When you stretch over a few seasons, they start to mean a lot more.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Hopefully the first of many.

Set up by Sidney Crosby. Can't get much better.

 

[AccuracyFive]

This picture makes me smile.

lol I saw the picture first in the small view and for a sec thought Sid had 3 arms.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Care to elaborate? We see a lot of criticism of HCDB systems, but not a lot of specifics to back it up. I loved his forechecking schematic tonight. His offensive zone gameplan was very good, played to our strengths and Tampa's weaknesses. His direction of the defense to pinch the puck-carrier in and the left-wing to cover the center drive worked well too.

What didn't work was his neutral-zone play and the breakout under pressure. I like that we don't do the stretch-pass as much, but we are losing too many puck battles on the high-wall.

In terms of D-Zone play, it's average to above on some nights. I'd like to see a D-man have more options than just winging it around or up the boards and depending on wingers to chip or muscle it out when opposing coaches make the simple adjustment of a D-Man pinching. Have your centers circle lower to give them a second outlet and force the forwards not to shotgun the zone for the stretch pass/chip to provide more support.

It's all really just adjustments. Seeing what the other team is doing and adjusting during the game. I know the stretch pass can work if opposing teams give you it but usually we see a one and done play and the payoff isn't worth continuing to implement it as much as we do.

 

[LetangyBarbecue]

Although Orpik has his wtf moments but i dont know why i keep seeing so many people giving him minuses all year. I saw a few great plays tonight and his improvement from last year has been great. He also is matched up against every teams best players a majority of the time. I dont think hes been as bad as some are claiming he has been

 

[MtlPenFan]

So, is that systemic or execution?

Systematic. If you're lower in the zone, the dman would have to come further down to squeeze the puck, meaning he may be more hesitant to do so.

 

[KIRK]

1) I think line matching is a great idea with Geno out, put the 1st line in the best position to score and do your best to keep the other team's top lines in check.

So why does Bylsma continue to insist that the 4th line is a shutdown line? He may WANT it to be, but it's not. I love Joe Vitale, but he, Tanner Glass, and Craig Adams aren't good enough to keep up with Stamkos. Even more unforgivable after Boucher made the switch and put St. Louis on the line with Stamkos.

2) Brooks Orpik is not playing good hockey right now. He's struggling to make a pass and I've lost track of how many times "his guy" has been free around the net to pick up the garbage... in just the past week. I don't know if he's injured or what, because he had a great start to the season, but he's been one of the weak links recently.

3) The second period... everyone is standing around, no one is moving their feet, and there's absolutely no support. They just seem to expect the puck to find its way to their sticks. It boggles the mind.

4) Derek Engelland has been struggling recently. Not sure what it is. Not retrieving the puck well and making some questionable decisions.

5) Tyler Kennedy is just a mess. I'm not necessarily on the "trade him" bandwagon - I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him moved for a better player... - but he needs to be sat. This is a situation where it's just a snowball effect: bad play, forcing it, coaches talking to him, fans and media getting on him, confidence is gone, just can't get out of his own way. It won't end pretty if they keep throwing him out there 13:00 a game.

6) Boarding. I swear the gentleman who Adams "boarded" turned into the hit at the last second. I hope the GMs adopt the hybrid bear hug rule proposed by Burke (and championed by Pierre).

______________

7) Beat Bennett is really progressing. I can't wait until he can get regular minutes with better players. It's hard for him to do much more than impress me with his awareness and positioning while playing with Tyler Kennedy.

8) Pascal Dupuis showed why KIRK, myself, and many others have a dream scenario that sees Dupuis being a fixture on the 3rd line. It's no knock to Dupuis. He'd be a key cog that would help the Pens reclaim the "Best 3rd Line in Hockey".

9) Joe Vitale is the greatest hockey player who has ever played hockey. His pass to Glass - who has come close a couple of times this year - made Sidney Crosby envious.

10) Paul Martin is worth every penny. I mean, he's worth more, really. He's been a 200ft player, good along the boards, good in front of the net, and adding in a surprising amount of offense.

11) Flower gave up 3 goals, but he kept out a bunch more. He "swims" a tad too much for my liking, but he gets the job done more often than not.

12) Some people made suggestive and/or sarcastic comments coming into this game, about how when Crosby has been out, Geno has picked it up, but the same isn't always true in reverse. With Malkin out, Crosby would have to play like the best player in the world, and he did. His vision is unreal. The way he sees the ice and can anticipate movements and outcomes well in advance is akin to a Grandmaster Chess player - only his pieces are never stationary.

The first line really tore it up in the 1st, but the 2nd seemed to throw everything off-kilter. I do think that KCN - if it sticks together - will blossom into a dominating line, but there are still some chemistry kinks to work out of the system.

1. Line matching is a good idea anytime. It looked good when Bylsma decided to do it for a period.

2. Orpik made a nice play tonight to tie up Prine Vinny's stick late. I didn't see another tonight.

3. Pens always blow in the 2nd.

4. Engo has pretty much struggled all year except for all but the first and last games with Borts when Letang was out.

5. TK looked o'k in the cycle and, like most other nights, was a detriment in all other areas.

6. Agreed on boarding.

7. Not sure if Bennett will be ready this go around for the playoffs top six, but you can see him playing with increasing confidence.

8. Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis = Playoff Caliber Checking Line.

9. Joe Vitale also is the most magnanimous being to ever grace this universe with His presence. That he didn't simply cast down Adam Hall . . . words cannot describe or accurately capture how I worship Him.

10. It's even more incredible to think that Martin has looked this way in spite of Orpik.

11. This was old school Flower, and I don't mean that as an insult. It was an adventure at times, but he got the job done.

12. Did you really expect anything different from Kunitz-Sid-Neal? I didn't.

In sum (wrote this elsewhere): I, for one, see KCN dominating too. I have questions about the defense, questions about Fleury, questions about the mix. BUT, IMO, Ray Shero should only have two objectives this trade deadline: One is a top six winger, and the other is a top six winger. He does that, and anything is possible.

Imagine if the pressure Sid with two good wingers exerted tonight could've been followed by Geno with two good wingers. The only time this team ever came close to that was 2008 (Hossa + Dupuis cumulatively equaled two good wingers). That team just steamrolled the East in the playoffs and only succumbed to the rookie cup jitters and an injured Geno in the finals.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This picture makes me smile.

Yep. Pure joy.

 

[bathroomSTAAL]

Although Orpik has his wtf moments but i dont know why i keep seeing so many people giving him minuses all year. I saw a few great plays tonight and his improvement from last year has been great. He also is matched up against every teams best players a majority of the time. I dont think hes been as bad as some are claiming he has been

Yeah, I missed the first half of this game but I saw him break up a probable goal by Lecavalier and bury a mother****er on the far boards, looked fine to me.

 

[vyktor]

Anyone else get indigestion any time the puck got anywhere near Brooks Orpik's stick?

Nope, that's one time I don't mind him out there, It's when his man is withing 5' of the net and Brooks is in the vicinity but doesn't do anything about it. on the ice for 5/6 vs Philly all 3 tonight. But he'll throw a meaningless hit along the boards and everyone will yell yay Free Candy.

 

[KIRK]

Nope, that's one time I don't mind him out there, It's when his man is withing 5' of the net and Brooks is in the vicinity but doesn't do anything about it. on the ice for 5/6 vs Philly all 3 tonight. But he'll throw a meaningless hit along the boards and everyone will yell yay Free Candy.

Oh, sure, that's the other time . . .

I was just saying that pretty much anytime Orpik has the puck on his stick with time and space, you can count on him screwing the pooch with his next move, especially when the other team 'invites' him to make that outlet pass.

 

[JTG]

stats aren't very good for a single game. When you stretch over a few seasons, they start to mean a lot more.

These types of games routinely happen though with this team.

 

[cheesedanish87]

DB just said he liked how the 4th line played against the top line vs Tampa says we will see it more. DB has to be the dumbest coach in the NHL

 

[billybudd]

I assume you don't mean odd as in every other number. So what makes a number odd? And explain why. THAT is my question.

You want me to explain what makes a number odd? Uh, that it isn't common.

Uncommon players wearing uncommon numbers makes a certain sort of sense. Pat Kane is different than other players. That he wears a strange number makes a certain type of statement and he backs it up.

Richard Panik wearing an uncommon number is silly. As NHL players go, he's as common as they come. He's differentiating himself from the crowd with his number, like Kane, but unlike Kane, is incapable of doing so with his game.

 

[Crafton]

Pittsburgh Penguins ‏@penguins
Crosby on Bennett's goal: "Beau knows where to go over there. He’s a gifted player. He’s got a lot of talent. He found the open lane." #Pens

Sid knows that Beau Knows!!!! let the sloganeering begin.

 

[cheesedanish87]

So maybe geno did have headache like rossi says but malkin forgot about it with his memory loss

 

[LetangyBarbecue]

Oh, sure, that's the other time . . .

I was just saying that pretty much anytime Orpik has the puck on his stick with time and space, you can count on him screwing the pooch with his next move, especially when the other team 'invites' him to make that outlet pass.

Keith Yandle could make those outlet passes