Post-Game Talk: Plus/Minus Thread | Penguins 2, Senators 1 (SO)

[Alesle]

Yeah the PP is complete dog****. Ottawa was pressuring hard on the guys up top, so why not adjust and run the PP behind the net? We just kept forcing cross ice passes at the blueline until they tipped one out of the zone. Then rinse, repeat. You have Sidney Crosby working down low. Take advantage of that.

That would require an in-game adjustment. We all know that's not happening.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah the PP is complete dog****. Ottawa was pressuring hard on the guys up top, so why not adjust and run the PP behind the net? We just kept forcing cross ice passes at the blueline until they tipped one out of the zone. Then rinse, repeat. You have Sidney Crosby working down low. Take advantage of that.

Haven't you really already answered your own question: Why not adjust? You know why not.

That would require an in-game adjustment. We all know that's not happening.

****, beat me to it

 

[Dupree13]

Another sketchy performance IMO. If that bad angle shot sneaks across the goal line, we'd all be talking about how Fleury is the goat instead of praising him. I'm still really down on Fleury and not a fan of his. He's shaky. I'll always be nervous with him back there. I still don't like the looks of this team, and don't think they will go anywhere as currently constructed.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Another sketchy performance IMO. If that bad angle shot sneaks across the goal line, we'd all be talking about how Fleury is the goat instead of praising him. I'm still really down on Fleury and not a fan of his. He's shaky. I'll always be nervous with him back there. I still don't like the looks of this team, and don't think they will go anywhere as currently constructed.

Are you really focusing the criticism on Fleury when he stopped 31/32 in a win and was generally solid on positioning and rebound control when the offense, both even strength and PP, was all over the place and couldn't give him any support?

 

[Dupree13]

Are you really focusing the criticism on Fleury when he stopped 31/32 in a win and was generally solid on positioning and rebound control when the offense, both even strength and PP, was all over the place and couldn't give him any support?

Yup. Because no matter how well he plays, you're always afraid he's going to let in some garbage, due to his mental and focus issues that he's clearly never going to get over. That near goal in the 3rd really demonstrated it.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah Fleury was solid. I can't find any reason to criticize him last night. He didn't look shaky, he was out challenging the shooter, and his rebound control was at least adequate. IMO, anyone that can find anything negative in his performance last night is looking too hard.

 

[Dupree13]

If some folks want to get into a routine of Pens win, everything's great, Pens lose, everything sucks, that's their business. I'm looking big picture at issues and patterns that have repeated over and over. Fleury had some great games last year too. He's still shaky as hell and always looks shaky. He looks shaky when he sets foot on the ice.

 

[KIRK]

If some folks want to get into a routine of Pens win, everything's great, Pens lose, everything sucks, that's their business. I'm looking big picture at issues and patterns that have repeated over and over. Fleury had some great games last year too. He's still shaky as hell and always looks shaky. He looks shaky when he sets foot on the ice.

I didn't see him always looking shaky. That's not to say it was adventure free. Far from it. Then again, I'm not sure how many adventure free games Fleury has played ever.

 

[Shady Machine]

If some folks want to get into a routine of Pens win, everything's great, Pens lose, everything sucks, that's their business. I'm looking big picture at issues and patterns that have repeated over and over. Fleury had some great games last year too. He's still shaky as hell and always looks shaky. He looks shaky when he sets foot on the ice.

I see where you are coming from, I just think you are dead wrong with Fleury last night. I saw a sloppy Penguins win with way too many turnovers, not enough talent on the wings, and a dreadful PP. The big picture there are issues and Fleury is still one of them. Last night, however, he played what I thought was a very solid, controlled game.

 

[Dupree13]

I see where you are coming from, I just think you are dead wrong with Fleury last night. I saw a sloppy Penguins win with way too many turnovers, not enough talent on the wings, and a dreadful PP. The big picture there are issues and Fleury is still one of them. Last night, however, he played what I thought was a very solid, controlled game.

Yeah he did aside from almost letting in a blooper reel goal to lose the game.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Hold on a second. There are soft bad angle goals and there are bad angle goals that go in because it's not humanly possibly to cover every single little wicket the puck can get in through. I thought his positioning was fine there. Not to mention he played a good game.

I'm all for critiquing the team win or lose. One pet peeve of mine on this board is how a shootout win or loss will completely change what you can get away with posting after the game is over. At the same time Fleury's been fine seriously.

I think Fleury is definitely still working on problems between his ears, but about 70% of the time people ***** about him I wonder what exactly they want him to do.

 

[SteelFish87*]

'Cause Forsberg's tearing up the NHL right now.

he could be in a couple years when we are still stuck with no wingers

 

[Dupree13]

Hold on a second. There are soft bad angle goals and there are bad angle goals that go in because it's not humanly possibly to cover every single little wicket the puck can get in through. I thought his positioning was fine there. Not to mention he played a good game.

I'm all for critiquing the team win or lose. One pet peeve of mine on this board is how a shootout win or loss will completely change what you can get away with posting after the game is over. At the same time Fleury's been fine seriously.

I think Fleury is definitely still working on problems between his ears, but about 70% of the time people ***** about him I wonder what exactly they want him to do.

It is impossible to cover every little wicket if you are a shooter tutor. Goalies need to see the puck , where it's going and make sure it doesn't sneak through. It seems like every game there are three or four moments where Fluery has no clue where the puck is and it's a matter of luck if it goes in or stays out. I already noticed that Vokoun, despite lacking Fluery's athleticism, is much better at tracking and covering pucks in his blue paint.

 

[BigBadBoris]

For all the winger talk, I think Crosby could still play better. I don't think he's all the way there. I still see him at about 3/4 his usual intensity, especially in the corners and skating thru the neutral zone.

I´ve noticed too that he isn´t his usual dominant self in the corners and along the boards, but it´s hard for him to get into a rhythm when his wingers provide nothing in terms of helping him. He almost never gets the puck with speed or in open space and they have almost no pressure in the offensive zone, partly because of wingers that
can´t handle the puck and have zero creativity.
I´m sure Sid will get there with time, but the winger situation certainly does nothing to ease up him getting there

 

[zhenyas most fly rep]

Are people blaming Malkin for the pass or when Spezza got around him? He's made some blatant errors this year but this goal? The pass goes directly in to the "**** happens" category. He saw a white jersey on his periphery and thought it was an open man. When the puck came back to him Spezza made, ironically, a Malkin-esque move to get around him. Then they proceeded to skate down half the ice surface, shoot, and shoot again. Not sure this isn't just piling on.

Yeah, I was stunned Malkin let that puck go through him, Spezza didn't even touched it.
The pass, I had no problem with it. It was right in Crosby's path but he wasn't looking as he was going to the bench (couldn't have touched it anyway since Neal was already on the ice)
One thing I didn't understand on that mess of a play is why Malkin was already on the ice? Isn't he supposed to replace the previous center, or is there way more freedom on who replaces who, on line changes?

..And then you MAF letting a horrible rebound on a chest snipe when he has an otherwise inspired night.. This goal was comedy of errors AFAIC.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

It is impossible to cover every little wicket if you are a shooter tutor. Goalies need to see the puck , where it's going and make sure it doesn't sneak through. It seems like every game there are three or four moments where Fluery has no clue where the puck is and it's a matter of luck if it goes in or stays out. I already noticed that Vokoun, despite lacking Fluery's athleticism, is much better at tracking and covering pucks in his blue paint.

Although this might be true, I disagree with what you've said about Fleury above. Any goalie that's as consistently good in the shootout as Fleury (albeit not last night) shows me that him stopping the puck is not largely due to luck.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

It is impossible to cover every little wicket if you are a shooter tutor. Goalies need to see the puck , where it's going and make sure it doesn't sneak through. It seems like every game there are three or four moments where Fluery has no clue where the puck is and it's a matter of luck if it goes in or stays out. I already noticed that Vokoun, despite lacking Fluery's athleticism, is much better at tracking and covering pucks in his blue paint.

Agree to disagree. I don't think he's been bad so far in the least.

 

[Dupree13]

Although this might be true, I disagree with what you've said about Fleury above. Any goalie that's as consistently good in the shootout as Fleury (albeit not last night) shows me that him stopping the puck is not largely due to luck.

Of course not, Fluery's talent is obvious, it's these lapses that he's prone to that are the problem. Any team that goes against him knows that if you just crash the net good things will happen because he's so bad at freezing loose pucks in a crowd.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Sutter struggled today, too, but I watched Staal be invisible a lot in my days. It happens.

I just had a horrible thought... what if the problem isn't the player but the way the coach expects the 3C to fit into the system? I don't know if that's reasonable given Staal's glacial release and puck fumbling (can't put that on Disco and that -most of the time- was the biggest complaint I had about him), but he's off to a pretty good start in Carolina playing with Skinner.

Hoping Bylsma isn't trying to "reign in" or "train" Sutter to fit his proto-grinder mold. That kid should be free to make some plays / make some things happen out there too, not just play D. He's got decent wheels and mobility, better hands than Staal, but maybe not better offensive instincts. So in the end it might end up a wash (which is fine because we didn't lose Staal for nothing by a long shot).

Wish the Shero bashers would recognize how big of a deal that was. We very nearly got 0 for Jordan Staal... especially with the lockout risk etc. Shero did a nice job there and made a big offer to Parise and Suter but didn't get his guys because PA is not MN. Simple as that. And the rest of those guys (Semin, et al) he didn't believe in or didn't want ot over-pay for going into the new CBA (Doan). Personally I give the man an A- for his summer's efforts. And no way he's done; he'll make a move within a month or so here. He won't wait to the deadline because it's too close to the post-season. If a GM is worried about getting home ice, they have to make moves early this year.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Hoping Bylsma isn't trying to "reign in" or "train" Sutter to fit his proto-grinder mold. That kid should be free to make some plays / make some things happen out there too, not just play D.

Great...something else to worry about now. Especially after I had read in camp the coaches trying to make Bennett's game more "north and south."

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I just had a horrible thought... what if the problem isn't the player but the way the coach expects the 3C to fit into the system? I don't know if that's reasonable given Staal's glacial release and puck fumbling, but he's off to a pretty good start in Carolina playing with Skinner.

Hoping Bylsma isn't trying to "reign in" or "train" Sutter to fit his proto-grinder mold. That kid should be free to make some plays / make some things happen out there too, not just play D.

We'll see. Staal doesn't have a goal yet and it'll probably take him a little bit more time to fully immerse himself into that role.

I haven't been a Bylsma fan for a long time but lately some of the tangents people have gone on to place blame on him are unwarranted. Quite frankly Sutter's line needs to produce more and that's that.

 

[Alesle]

he could be in a couple years when we are still stuck with no wingers

We could have other wingers tearing up the NHL by then (not that I'm banking on it), and be in need of a puckmoving D with PP QB abilities. The future is hard to predict .

 

[Darth Vitale]

Great...something else to worry about now. Especially after I had read in camp the coaches trying to make Bennett's game more "north and south."

Well, don't lose any sleep over it; I'm just a fan in the end so what do I know? But the thought occurred to me that the role Bylsma sets for the 3rd line could have a decent amount to do with the number and types of chances the C of that line produces. Obviously a defense-first line but hopefully he puts Sutter in a position to succeed on both sides of the ice. Trying not to put all the blame on Kennedy.

I haven't been a Bylsma fan for a long time but lately some of the tangents people have gone on to place blame on him are unwarranted. Quite frankly Sutter's line needs to produce more and that's that.

Yah I don't know if it's a big factor or not, that's why presented the idea to Cole. Same with all the Geno stuff. I don't really know what's going on in Geno's head, but I have noticed he seems more frustrated than usual the last few games. Could be a number of things not just one. I'm not prepared to say he's ready to do something stupid, or that Bylsma is 100% to blame, but it is worth considering the effect of Bylsma's completely uncreative and unflowing system on a player like Malkin.

 

[switch23]

 

[Darth Vitale]

That was a definite +.