Toggle sidebar

Players with bad timing and missed getting a cup with their team

Howboutthempanthers said:
I hate this narrative. This is incorrect. One of the better players on the team was not a reason why they didn't win. A player who lead the team in scoring in a playoff run (Barkov hadn't done that when Huberdeau was there) was not a reason why they couldn't get over the hump.
The organization was not a Stanley Cup winning organization when he was there. Huberdeau himself was not worse than every player on the team at the time of them winning the cup. There are a whole of lot reasons why they didn't win the cup when Huberdeau was here, and Huberdeau wasn't one of them.
As I've said before, a big reason why they stepped up to a higher level was the coaching change. They are not winning that cup with Brunette as the coach. Even with Tkachuk in the lineup.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this for a multitude of reasons, but I feel Jack Han does an excellent job breaking down why Huberdeau was never as impactful as his box score numbers would suggest:

jhanhky.substack.com

What's Wrong With Huberdeau?

Has CGY ruined a bona fide superstar, or is it something else...
jhanhky.substack.com jhanhky.substack.com

His highly specialized game shows a poor understanding of the fundamental structure of 5v5 play, where roughly 80% of puck touches happens outside the dot and are physically contested.
Click to expand...

Han couches his criticisms as 'withing Calgary's system', but if you actually read all the issues he points out, all the same issues would exist within Maurice's system. He would have floundered under Maurice, just as he did in Calgary.

The system you are criticizing (Brunette's... which is really just the same as Joel Quenneville's) is the reason he was able to look successful, because unlike Maurice and Sutter's system, Q's system does not rely on a heavy forecheck and creating puck battles, but rather aggressive dmen forcing transition at the blue-line to burn teams and create puck races.
 
This predates the NHL, but Bugsy Clanghorne was famously traded from the Brampton Biscuit-Packers to the Mississauga Thousandaires, just before their Challenge Cup series with the Trois-Rivieres Calculatrice
 
Todd Bertuzzi. Joining the Wings in 06 and joined the Ducks in 08, missing both cups. Then re-joined the Wings after the 08 Cup run.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Hasbro
David Backes played 10 seasons with the Blues but left in free agency for the Bruins a couple years before St. Louis won in 2019.

Vinnie Prospal played for the Lightning for two seasons, goes to Anaheim for one year (when TB wins the Cup in 2004 so he misses out on it), then returns to the Lightning for a few more seasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Memento and Stupendous Yappi
wgknestrick said:
Says exactly what it needs to about this player.
Click to expand...
Many guys win cups elsewhere in the same situations. Hossa is a great example.
Many years with Ottawa and wins in Chicago
I’m not buying it that it was Huberdeau

Florida barely made the playoffs the year they
Went to the cup final.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hirawl
The Shadow said:
Many guys win cups elsewhere in the same situations. Hossa is a great example.
Many years with Ottawa and wins in Chicago
I’m not buying it that it was Huberdeau

Florida barely made the playoffs the year they
Went to the cup final.
Click to expand...
Hossa is +245 over career. Hubs is +9. They aren't anywhere close to the same type of player. Hossa is 5v5 good and why you win the cup. Hubs hangs his cup up to dry after every game. FLA pulled off a phenomenal trade at the best time removing Hubs and trading him for a much better and younger player on the right side of their career curve.
 
JaegerDice said:
I don't agree with this for a multitude of reasons, but I feel Jack Han does an excellent job breaking down why Huberdeau was never as impactful as his box score numbers would suggest:

jhanhky.substack.com

What's Wrong With Huberdeau?

Has CGY ruined a bona fide superstar, or is it something else...
jhanhky.substack.com jhanhky.substack.com



Han couches his criticisms as 'withing Calgary's system', but if you actually read all the issues he points out, all the same issues would exist within Maurice's system. He would have floundered under Maurice, just as he did in Calgary.

The system you are criticizing (Brunette's... which is really just the same as Joel Quenneville's) is the reason he was able to look successful, because unlike Maurice and Sutter's system, Q's system does not rely on a heavy forecheck and creating puck battles, but rather aggressive dmen forcing transition at the blue-line to burn teams and create puck races.
Click to expand...
That's assuming he would not forecheck, or do anything this system requires. You point him in a direction, you give him a structure to play under, and he will do it. Just like most players. If you put them in a structured system, that's the system they will play under.
If the coach is not good in implementing his system, then the players will fall back into chaos. Hockey is too chaotic to expect good play out players consistently without structure. To get the best out of players, they need good structure. Teams have to put players in a position to succeed.
Especially players who have a confidence problem. Huberdeau lacks confidence, which is part of being badly developed like almost all of the prospects we've ever had. In order to get over that confidence problem you have to be brought along well as a prospect, otherwise that will be at the core of a player throughout his whole career (many of our prospects had this problem and stayed with them their whole career). So now if he doesn't have a good structured system to play in, he doesn't have confidence about anything in his game to rely on to play the game with. He just ends up playing really timid.
 
A little bit different, but Iginla?

There's always great players that chase the cup in the twilight of their career, but how often does someone accidentally block themselves with multi cup winners in the same division AND misses out on winning a cups with a coach that got him within 1 game from the cup on the original team he played most of his career on? For the juggernauts/winners of that era he was seeking the cup (2012-2017) you had Boston, Penguins, Kings and Hawks. He was involved with/played on 3 of 4 of those teams, but in all the wrong years. The only juggernaut he wasn't involved with was the Hawks.

If he swapped the order of the moves of the trade to Pittsburgh vs Boston that he vetoed at the last moment, he might have won the cup with one of those teams because he'd have been with the team at the right time when they were contending/not blocking each other. IIRC, a Boston fan or two have speculated that they might have repeated in 2012 had a key injury not happened to one of their players, and Iggy was the guy that injured that guy in a fight while playing for the Pens.

If he had followed Sutter and Regehr to LA (with him for the Flames '04 run) and reunited with Sutter earlier vs betting on Colorado, he might have won the cup 2014.
 
Paul Martin. Played with the Penguins from 2010-2015, then signed with the Sharks and lost to the Penguins in 2016.
 
TeamRenzo said:
A bit of a different angle but Quebec Nordiques fans, losing their team to see the Avalanche win right away
Click to expand...
Flip side of that is if the team was still in Quebec I don't think there's any way Roy gets traded there. might still have won, but he was a huge piece of the puzzle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SirJW
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom