Players who passed on greatness/improved teammates

[Luigi Lemieux]

Doh! The Guentzel one is just so fundamental I forgot it! Absolutely, I wonder if he’s more a 40 point player without seeing how Crosby do it all those years.

I don't want to take credit away from guentzel because he's a smart, talented player. He would be a good NHLer regardless of where he was drafted. But maybe not the ppg+ guy making $9M a year.

 

[Devilsfan2326]

I think Sean Monahan is someone who, while not being a great player himself, has been part of lines that dominate analytically. Indicating perhaps that he provides synergy with his linemates that do not appear to the untrained eye.

Smart player.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't think Guentzel is even remotely the same player without Sid.

During his time with the Canes the raw ability to find a way to get open and put the puck on net was over the top obvious. Still….that kind of player with a playmaker like Sid is a perfect pairing. They got a lot of credit but I’m not sure they got enough.

 

[Breakers]

Malkin Literally dedicated his Hart Trophy to Gonchar, his entire speech was talking about Gonchar

said he would be in the KHL if it wasnt for him.
said he did everything for him, on how to train, american life, got his whole life set up for him.

 

[mattihp]

Jágr took Barkov under his wing big time.

One of Barkov's presumed baby mamas went public though, whilst we will have lots of suprise mullet guys in jr hockey all over the United States and Canada.

 

[Il Stugotz]

Toews and Hossa helped Troy Brouwer, Bryan Bickell, and Richard Panik get slightly higher paychecks

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'm sure I recall reading that Jeff O'Neill fell off as a player when he didn't have Francis and Brind'Amour to keep him engaged. By his own admission.

That makes a lot of sense.

 

[norrisnick]

another way of looking at this thread is what guys were given every opportunity to succeed by being insulated with the right vets along the way?

lidstrom: his rookie partner was brad mccrimmon, in year two they added coffey and mark howe, and in year four they added slava fetisov and veteran defensive stalwart mike ramsey. that’s just an embarrassment of riches.

niedermayer entered the league on a team with scotty stevens and fetisov, and larry robinson was hired as his assistant coach in his second year.

same with jagr. an obvious standout talent but does he turn out as good as he did if he doesn’t get drafted to a team with mario, bryan trottier, and maybe also scotty bowman behind the bench? if they don’t bring in jiri hrdina and ron francis later that year?

Year 1: this is how you help your partner.
Year 2: hope you were paying attention.

 

[gretzkyoilers]

another way of looking at this thread is what guys were given every opportunity to succeed by being insulated with the right vets along the way?

lidstrom: his rookie partner was brad mccrimmon, in year two they added coffey and mark howe, and in year four they added slava fetisov and veteran defensive stalwart mike ramsey. that’s just an embarrassment of riches.

niedermayer entered the league on a team with scotty stevens and fetisov, and larry robinson was hired as his assistant coach in his second year.

same with jagr. an obvious standout talent but does he turn out as good as he did if he doesn’t get drafted to a team with mario, bryan trottier, and maybe also scotty bowman behind the bench? if they don’t bring in jiri hrdina and ron francis later that year?

Don't forget Paul Coffey: Jagr stated that it was Paul that got him on the crazy workout regime he had developed. Man those ex-Oiler players were WAY ahead of their time....

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Year 1: this is how you help your partner.
Year 2: hope you were paying attention.

haha, but joking aside you have to think he learned a thing or two about running a breakout and QBing the PP from friggin’ coffey

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Jágr took Barkov under his wing big time.

One of Barkov's presumed baby mamas went public though, whilst we will have lots of suprise mullet guys in jr hockey all over the United States and Canada.

probably also not a coincidence that giroux goes from a 76 pt guy to a top three scorer the year jagr goes to philly and benn jumps from a 60 pt scorer to a top 10 guy the year after jagr was in dallas

 

[mattihp]

probably also not a coincidence that giroux goes from a 76 pt guy to a top three scorer the year jagr goes to philly and benn jumps from a 60 pt scorer to a top 10 guy the year after jagr was in dallas

Guy knows how to teach and players have great respect for one of the greatest ever.

 

[Primary Assist]

One more non-joke answer. Legend goes that when the budding 80s Oilers lost in the Stanley Cup Finals to the Islanders they passed by their locker room. Rather than partying and celebrating the way they'd imagine Cup champs would, the Islanders were almost somber, icing their wounds, and completely exhausted physically.

This taught the Oilers what a true champion looks like (it wasn't what they had in mind), and this greatness was then passed to the Great One and the Oilers as the next NHL dynasty. The Oilers would go on to defeat the Isles in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Of course I've heard some former Islanders say that really they were partying and just calmed down when the Oilers were walking past as a sign of respect and sportsmanship. Either way, lesson learned.

 

[Devilsfan2326]

Good thread, I really like hearing about mentorships and the funny stories of guys working out together.

Maybe this is what you're referencing, but Voracek has a pretty funny story about being drunk in his own apartment in the middle of the night and Jagr (who lived above him) was banging on the floor to quiet the party down, and then later shows up at his door in full workout gear to inform Voracek that he's going for a run at 3am. Jagr's work ethic was other-worldly.

The Jagr and Voracek one

 

[lawrence]

Mats Sundin for Edler, Bieska, Burrows, Kesler, Sedins.

Sedins went from 80 point players to Art Ross players.
Kesler went from 2nd line player to selke winner.
Burrows went from 3rd line player to 1st line player.
Bieksa Edler, and among others credited Sundin's impact despite only being with the team for 2 months with the team, how much of a difference he's made. I'm not sure why Burke didn't give him one more year. What a stubborn old man.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Malkin Literally dedicated his Hart Trophy to Gonchar, his entire speech was talking about Gonchar

said he would be in the KHL if it wasnt for him.
said he did everything for him, on how to train, american life, got his whole life set up for him.

Gonchar also supported Karlsson’s development. Was there to mentor through Karlsson’s first and second complete NHL seasons. Karl won his first Norris in Gonchar’s final year as a Senator.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Retired now but Andrei Markov

He literally made an AHLer an all-star and made countless other plug rich.

He elevated the whole team really. His last year in the NHL (2017) was also the last time the Habs made the playoffs in a normal non-covid year. That is not a coincidence

Yep--Markov was highly underrated for what he did

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Malkin Literally dedicated his Hart Trophy to Gonchar, his entire speech was talking about Gonchar

said he would be in the KHL if it wasnt for him.
said he did everything for him, on how to train, american life, got his whole life set up for him.

Good one, never woulda known about that connection. Always liked Gonchar.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Guentzel has said he's learned a ton from Crosby. They were basically attached at the hip from 2017 until he was traded.

Jagr has also mentioned he wouldn't have become the player he did if it wasn't for playing with Lemieux. Watching him practice, playing on the same line, seeing how he thinks the game, etc.

And then Jagr seems to have paid it forward. I think his twilight years in Florida were huge for Barkov, in particular.

 

[syz]

Adam Oates made a pit stop in Edmonton at the end of his career and I remember guys like Horcoff and Stoll all of a sudden starting to win every faceoff.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Mackinnon for sure fits this profile. He's completely transformed the likes of Drouin, Nichushkin, and now Mittelstadt since they all joined the Avs. They all put in considerable work after practices and inside the gym and each of them have given credit to Mack's work ethic as reasons they stepped up their dedications as well.

 

[MessierII]

Duncan Keith and Evan Bouchard played a lot of the year on a pairing and Bouchard had a breakout year.