Players Who Became The Opposite Of What They Were?

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MadLuke

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
10,394
5,951
but then look like complete dopes when they have to cover someone?
Do they still do look like that during the Olympics or third period with a lead in the playoff ;) ?

If not, it could be will, sacrifice and motivation, which is can be large part of doing it for people good enough to stay in the nhl without doing it.

Rick Nash with all his size, stick, strength and speed could look really good defensively with Team Canada, in an afternoon November game against Phoenix, not so sure if he always did.

Mario Lemieux being an other one, even old Mario in 2004 was still be a good 2 way forward went it needed to be.

And in those days he was definitely not known as a defensive guy. He was quite bad at it if I remember correctly.
Depend on who, there was a portion of MTL fans that still had some; if a defenceman is big and can use the Sherwood in front of the net = mediocre if not good defensively almost automatic.

Souray and Marc Andre Bergeron could score 25 in a year with their slapshop (Bergeron had an hard time being good enough to have the ice time, Souray actually did it). Souray only had like 10-15 goals his whole career before his return to the nhl in 2004... missing a whole year, could it have bbeen some injury (a bit like when he declined so fast after... wrist I think)
 
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Staniowski

Registered User
Jan 13, 2018
3,797
3,409
The Maritimes
Looking back on the whole legend of Guy Carbonneau, I'm sort of not getting why he turned himself into a defensive specialist in the first place. Here was a French Canadian junior scoring sensation coming up in the early 80s, puts up nearly 100 points in the AHL and is poised to inherit that torch from Guy Lafleur... and he becomes a shut down center? Based on lineage, organizational need you'd think his quickest and most direct path to success would have been to harness those offensive gifts and lead the Habs into the second half of the 80s. And he turns himself into Bob Gainey the next generation? I just don't get that shift in mentality, especially at the height of those high flying 80s seasons.
The way you characterize Carbonneau's offensive talent - being poised to inherit the torch from Lafleur - is not accurate.

Carbonneau didn't have that kind of offensive talent. There are scoring stars in junior every year....that doesn't mean any of them can be scoring stars in the NHL. Carbonneau had some decent offensive talent but he would never have been an offensive star in the bigs.

His move to defensive star was largely encouraged by Lemaire, who promised Carbonneau lots of ice-time and increased importance on the team if he focused on defense. The '84 playoffs were really the beginning of Carbonneau as a great defensive player.

It was a great transition, and Carbonneau's play defined the Habs' style for the next decade.
 

alko

Registered User
Oct 20, 2004
9,520
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Slovakia
www.slovakhockey.sk
Zdeno Chara: What was his potential the day, Islanders drafted him in 1996? Looking to his WHL career, AHL games... Simply a tough guy, who will clear the zone. Who will fight, when necessary, who will check.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
80,719
57,839
The way you characterize Carbonneau's offensive talent - being poised to inherit the torch from Lafleur - is not accurate.

Carbonneau didn't have that kind of offensive talent. There are scoring stars in junior every year....that doesn't mean any of them can be scoring stars in the NHL. Carbonneau had some decent offensive talent but he would never have been an offensive star in the bigs.

His move to defensive star was largely encouraged by Lemaire, who promised Carbonneau lots of ice-time and increased importance on the team if he focused on defense. The '84 playoffs were really the beginning of Carbonneau as a great defensive player.

It was a great transition, and Carbonneau's play defined the Habs' style for the next decade.

That makes sense. Without knowing what Carbonneau’s capabilities “pre-transformation” and hear say about Lafleur liking his offensive game it’s difficult to get a gauge of whether it was a stylistic transformation or if he had to live within a skill limitations. Guess that also covers why he didn’t have an offensive breakout later in his career, a la Doug Gilmour or something.
 

Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
9,129
2,461
Zdeno Chara: What was his potential the day, Islanders drafted him in 1996? Looking to his WHL career, AHL games... Simply a tough guy, who will clear the zone. Who will fight, when necessary, who will check.

I know he was mentioned (With Ken Belanger) as the guy who was supposed to take over for Mick Vukota on the Isles in an article I read at the time. Don't know if that was actually a wide spread view of Chara or not.
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
14,404
9,651
NYC
www.youtube.com
I don't think Chara became the opposite of what he was, certainly. He might have out-performed his likely potential (I guess, I didn't see him in the Dub)...but opposite? I don't think that's gonna be a match for this thread...
 

frontsfan2005

Registered User
Mar 26, 2006
814
305
Ontario, Canada
Radek Bonk was drafted as a player with soft hands and a mean streak, as evidenced by his 42 goal, 208 PIM season with Las Vegas of the IHL as a 17/18 year old in 93-94 that helped him being drafted 3rd overall in the 1994 draft.

In the NHL, he peaked at 25 goals and 66 penalty minutes in a season and wasn't really known as a player with a "mean streak".
 
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Iron Mike Sharpe

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Dec 6, 2017
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Not sure how often guys flipped to be fully "opposite" what they were, but there have been several players throughout the years who have had to make major adjustments to how they play the game.

Ron Wilson comes to mind: he was a small, speedy, skilled center who spent three years in development with the Habs' farm team the Nova Scotia Voyageurs. He joined the completely gutted Jets in their inaugural NHL season in 79-80 and found himself in the position as their number one center, driving offense on a line with Morris Lukowich and Willy Lindstrom. Wilson was a smart player and can maybe be thought of at the time as a poor man's Martin St. Louis - he was crafty and able to use his smaller stature and quick movements to set up plays in the offensive zone. BUT he was ultimately punching way above his weight, as his offensive talents were simply not of the calibre needed to be a true top 6 forward in the NHL.

Eventually, with the emergence of Dave Christian (later replaced by Laurie Boschman), Dale Hawerchuk and Thomas Steen down the middle, Wilson found himself back in the minors by 81-82 at age 25, and spent the better part of three seasons in the CHL-AHL after two seasons as a top 6 center for the team..

At some point he must have been told by the team, or figured it out for himself, that the only way for a guy like him to keep an NHL job is to become a fourth line checking center and penalty kill specialist. Ironically, defensive-minded coach Tom Watt had not seemed to envision this role for Wilson, but when Watt was turfed new coach (and former teammate) Barry Long started playing Wilson regularly on the penalty kill unit alongside Doug Smail.

It took him a couple of seasons to fully stabilize in his new role, but by 86-87, at age 30, he had emerged as one of the best 4th line checking centers in the league, known as a good faceoff man and an effective PKer, with John Ferguson loudly beating the Selke drum on his behalf. He was able to use his size and speed to his advantage, particularly on the PK, as he could get in close and strip the puck from his opponents, and was adept at moving the puck up the ice on the PK, and getting back into the d-zone quickly if the play shifted.

As he aged, he found himself back in the AHL for a full season at age 32, and it looked like his career was coming to the end of the line, despite the fact that he put up 92 points in Moncton. At age 33, he was dealt to the Blues mid-season, and he was recalled immediately and given a job with the club, and put up 20 points in 33 games, his best offensive effort since 81. He had the full confidence of coach Brian Sutter and at an age when most guys from his generation were done, Wilson reinvented himself again as a versatile two-way player who could play up and down the lineup and slot into any forward position, playing both checking and complementary scoring roles, much like the Blues captain Rick Meagher, a speedy two-way player who won the Selke in Wilson's first season with the Blues. Meagher retired the following year, and Wilson stepped up and took over his role and played a solid three seasons for the Blues. He had one final campaign in 94 with the Habs before hanging up his skates for good at 37.

Definitely one of the oddest career trajectories in NHL history.
 
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Dale53130

Registered User
Nov 10, 2019
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Not sure how often guys flipped to be fully "opposite" what they were, but there have been several players throughout the years who have had to make major adjustments to how they play the game.

Ron Wilson comes to mind: he was a small, speedy, skilled center who spent three years in development with the Habs' farm team the Nova Scotia Voyageurs. He joined the completely gutted Jets in their inaugural NHL season in 79-80 and found himself in the position as their number one center, driving offense on a line with Morris Lukowich and Willy Lindstrom. Wilson was a smart player and can maybe be thought of at the time as a poor man's Martin St. Louis - he was crafty and able to use his smaller stature and quick movements to set up plays in the offensive zone. BUT he was ultimately punching way above his weight, as his offensive talents were simply not of the calibre needed to be a true top 6 forward in the NHL.

Eventually, with the emergence of Dave Christian (later replaced by Laurie Boschman), Dale Hawerchuk and Thomas Steen down the middle, Wilson found himself back in the minors by 81-82 at age 25, and spent the better part of three seasons in the CHL-AHL after two seasons as a top 6 center for the team..

At some point he must have been told by the team, or figured it out for himself, that the only way for a guy like him to keep an NHL job is to become a fourth line checking center and penalty kill specialist. Ironically, defensive-minded coach Tom Watt had not seemed to envision this role for Wilson, but when Watt was turfed new coach (and former teammate) Barry Long started playing Wilson regularly on the penalty kill unit alongside Doug Smail.

It took him a couple of seasons to fully stabilize in his new role, but by 86-87, at age 30, he had emerged as one of the best 4th line checking centers in the league, known as a good faceoff man and an effective PKer, with John Ferguson loudly beating the Selke drum on his behalf. He was able to use his size and speed to his advantage, particularly on the PK, as he could get in close and strip the puck from his opponents, and was adept at moving the puck up the ice on the PK, and getting back into the d-zone quickly if the play shifted.

As he aged, he found himself back in the AHL for a full season at age 32, and it looked like his career was coming to the end of the line, despite the fact that he put up 92 points in Moncton. At age 33, he was dealt to the Blues mid-season, and he was recalled immediately and given a job with the club, and put up 20 points in 33 games, his best offensive effort since 81. He had the full confidence of coach Brian Sutter and at an age when most guys from his generation were done, Wilson reinvented himself again as a versatile two-way player who could play up and down the lineup and slot into any forward position, playing both checking and complementary scoring roles, much like the Blues captain Rick Meagher, a speedy two-way player who won the Selke in Wilson's first season with the Blues. Meagher retired the following year, and Wilson stepped up and took over his role and played a solid three seasons for the Blues. He had one final campaign in 94 with the Habs before hanging up his skates for good at 37.

Definitely one of the oddest career trajectories in NHL history.
Great read!
 

Brodeur

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
26,606
17,124
San Diego
Maybe not complete opposite, but my knee jerk thought was Adam Larsson. When the Devils drafted him, we thought we'd be getting a PPQB; Right before the draft, Scottie Bowman said that Larsson reminded him more of Larry Murphy than say Nicklas Lidstrom. As an 18 year old, the Devils shoehorned Larsson onto PP1 but you could feel his confidence erode by the midway point of that season.

Devils handled Larsson poorly in his first couple years in the league, but he eventually settled into a solid EV/PK minute eating stay at home D who hasn't gotten much time on the PP.
 

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