Players Who Are Less Than Their Resumes?

[CokenoPepsi]

As I said, Hossa needed a #1C to be successful while Alfie didn’t.

He wasn’t the same kind of offensive catalyst.

I mean, Alfie wasn't successful in those years.

Hossa was definitely the guy

 

[Hippasus]

I mean, Alfie wasn't successful in those years.

Hossa was definitely the guy

It was like Hossa 1a, Alfredsson 1b, and Havlat 1c. They were built based on right wing for a couple seasons there.

 

[NyQuil]

I mean, Alfie wasn't successful in those years.

Hossa was definitely the guy

And was traded for a reason.

Why keep Alfie if he wasn’t the guy?

It’s because he was the guy, and team management and the fans knew it.

Hossa
2002-2003 80 45-35-80 +8
2003-2004 81 36-46-82 +4

Alfredsson
2002-2003 78 27-51-78 +15
2003-2004 77 32-48-80 +12

He scored 4 more points on the 1st line in 6 more games than Alfie did with a rotating cast of centres?

I mean, I'm not seeing this separation you speak of. Clearly Bryan Murray didn't either.

No team trades the guy.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

And was traded for a reason.

Why keep Alfie if he wasn’t the guy?

It’s because he was the guy, and team management and the fans knew it.

Hossa
2002-2003 80 45-35-80 +8
2003-2004 81 36-46-82 +4

Alfredsson
2002-2003 78 27-51-78 +15
2003-2004 77 32-48-80 +12

He scored 4 more points on the 1st line in 6 more games than Alfie did with a rotating cast of centres?

I mean, I'm not seeing this separation you speak of. Clearly Bryan Murray didn't either.

No team trades the guy.

Just because you are the guy doesn't mean it always works out and a change is needed.

Let's look at the playoffs.

Hossa

2002-2003 18 5-11-16 -1
2003-2004 7 3-1-4 0

Alfie

2002-2003 18 4-4 8 -3
2003-2004 7 1-2 3 +0

You see a pretty big seperation there.

Alfie would not have got back Heatley in a trade

 

[wetcoast]

I think most if not all serious fans have players they consider less impressive than their careers look on paper.

Who are players you think aren't as good as their accomplishments make them look? Whether it's because of great players and/or teams elevating them. weak competition, injuries to rivals at unfortunate (or fortunate, depending on perspective) times or other factors, which players have careers that are flattering to their actual abilities and impact?

I hate to be that guy but as a Canucks fan the Sedins are my immediate answer whenever I hear of a variant on this topic.

I'm sure there are greater examples but as a Canucks fan I found their twilight years and supporters argument utterly nauseating.

But then again I think for the sedins it's more of their reputation than their resume.

Lindros as well.

 

[wetcoast]

So, you got the thread's intent exactly backwards then...?

I gets that he literally does but to me it seems that for a lot of people in an emotional sense interchange hype/resume with a negative thought about certain players right?

After all out first instincts are about perfections except for the extreme view that have all of hockey memorized.

I find that even being a die hard hockey fan for all of my 50 something years I still find new ways to think and appreciate about hockey and it history as well as it's future and to me that's why it is the greatest sport in the world.

 

[wetcoast]

Again, versus the resume is the deal here...

M.Richard - It's tough because he is supremely technically skilled, but wingers that don't do much but shoot I just find to be overrated by the whole winger AST and the unbalanced attack. In the context of top 10 or whatever, I'll pass.

Ovechkin - Same basic deal as Richard really. All time great, but I'd strongly prefer players with more dimension. (inb4 "he has SO MANY dimensions!")

T.Lindsay - Again the LW thing, but he's a super worker, but not very efficient. Played like he was being chased by bees.

Tony Esposito - I talked about him at length in the goalie project thread. He's not a missing link butterfly guy...he's a guesser and kind of a mess. He got what he deserved in the playoffs. But I could fill this list with goalies right now haha - Gump Worsley for instance.

Norm Ullman - I never really thought 1300 points or whatever he had matched his play. I will say that in going back through the goalie tape, he did pop a little better at times. Still...101 on our list? Get lost...

Peter Stastny - Does anyone have any idea who has the 2nd most points in the 80's? Anyone? Has anyone heard that one? We get it. I'd like to go back and see if he was even better than Goulet. We have him ahead of Dale Hawerchuk? Boo. We have him over Gilbert Perreault? I should be rolled up in a carpet and thrown in a lake if I'm responsible for that.

A couple years ago, I might have said Red Kelly here, but he had some really nice games when I was doing the goalie stuff, so I don't think that anymore.

Good list and for Stastny I've been thinking in the last year that maybe the whole he was second in points in the 80s which I never thought was a good argument means even less as his perception to me is slipping but maybe that's just me.

And I'm kind of surprised that Dionne hasn't come up yet but that reminds me of Lafleur........ that will cause a very strong reaction no doubt.

Tony's brother Phil as I have been reading the thread and thinking about it more.

 

[wetcoast]

I wonder where Fleury fit there, high talent obviously and the yoga still body to have such longevity, in some part the resume is insane.

WJ MVP, Vezina, 3 cups (*2 game played in 2016, did really well in 2017 but Murray took the net back), all-decade first team, could he reach 600 win, 100 playoff win.

In other it is down to earth, no other top 3 vezina or all star team outside the Vezina season, lost his spot in the playoff-regular season during his should have been prime, -24 career GSAA, never made team Canada post juniors, so maybe it averages out an ok in line resume when you weight all of it.

The first thing that comes to mind in that the 2 share the same area of meh, MAF is kind of like the goalie version of Mike Gartner/Joe Thornton here.

 

[wetcoast]

What bout Ken Dryden, 258w-57L, .922 career save percentage, 6x cup, calder, smythe,, 5 vezina, all that in just 7 season (all star team in all but one of his career)

Hart: 2-4-4 despite his own team competition, 317.2 career GSAA in only 397 games, Montreal did not do that well in 1974 without him which is a big plus on his resume, the list is long considering, should he not be talked about a bit like Hasek-Roy for the best prime with that resume, are we too harsh for the summer series, the guy won in average 10 playoff games a year, in an era where the max was often 12 for Montreal !

He was probably less than that, not having to play against Mtl versus all the other goaltender of his time and playing for them, even if we say he is one of the best ever at it.

He doesn't fit and I say this as a very impressionable youngster and Hab hater and generally confused about how to rank and think about goalies I recognized and respected Dryden impact greatly.

But then again I read the game when it first came out and it really resonated with me on an emotional level.

 

[wetcoast]

John Tavares

His resume isn't all that great is it?

Went and looked

Top 10 in goals 4 times

Assists 2 times.

Points 2 times,